Unofficial Coco Coir Growers Thread

[EddieShoestring]

Awesome thread, guys, totally cool-i've just gone over from nft to coco and it's helped me already-it was the post about treating the coco more like a hydroponic medium than a soil/compost grow that helped me to understand -i had been leaving them to dry out a bit-like with soil-and they were looking pale and drooped by the end of the lights on period-growth was slow too (well compared to hydro)-

for the past few days i've been watering 2-3 times a day-giving much more water/nutes overall and things have really picked up

one question if anyone can help: do you add Silicon to your nutes as with hydro or is that un-necessary with coco?

cheers

 

[Blatant]

You got that right Suburban & -VT-. Hydroponics is all about Roots and T.D.O. (Total Dissolved Oygen) is the key.

Thats why I run my drippers so long. By keeping a fresh flow of Nutrients flowing thru the Medium I pull Fresh Oxygen to the Roots along with a fresh Flow of Nutrients. I liken it to a Slow Ass NFT system. Eddie I too used to do NFT, but ditched it for variety in my Garden. Also YES add the Silicon to your Nutes. I use Pro-Silicate. Depending if your in Flower you also MAY want to run a more diluted solution of nutes too. The more you water the less you'll need. If you overfert it will just spike your PPM's and Lock out your Nutes.

You'll also notice a difference between Rootballs depending on your watering schedule. The Grower that waters multiple times everyday will have what I've heard being called Hydro Roots. A Rootball with Tiny lil Branches for Increased Oxygen Uptake. Sort of like our Lungs. The Rootball from a Periodical Watering Grow will not have these roots as the Total Dissolved Oxygen is not as Prevelant. These two differences in the use of Coco is what I think is the difference between Active Hydro and Passive Hydro. Frequent Watering is more of a Hydro System and should be treated as so. Periodic Watering should be treated as a Soiless mix.

oldpeculiar I was looking into that New Line from Botanicare. It seems like a Good Product. With the Types of Nitrates and Decreased Potasium it would seem to be great fit for Coco. I was gonna buy some a few months back but I'll be damned if I throw out all this Advanced Nutrient stuff. That will probably be my next choice if I were to buy some new gear.

Blatant

 

[Bramski]

Top thread guys, a lot of knowledgable coco growers giving some good advice. I'm in the process of giong back to coco after what I can only describe as a disasterous few months with NFT. Went on Holiday couple a months back, left the brother in law to keep an eye on the animals and my NFT res, he ended up knocking my pump offline the second day I was gone and never checked them for another 3 days and my plants ended up looking like seaweed lol.. Would that have happened in coco, I think not. Gutted.

That left me up shit creek because I never had any clones so I had to start from seed, so I started a shitload of seeds and put them in the NFT system too soon and overwatered them, can you see where I'm going here, I think I pissed someone off upstairs


Bottom line is I'm finishing up what I currently have in NFT and going back to coco. I have 1800 watts to use at present and I just started 36 femmed seeds in coco which will end up in a hand watered bucket setup until my NFT is done on the other side of the room then I can go back to fully automated drip system with the coco slabs again.

 

[-VT-]

I'm converting a recirc DWC to a coc/perlite run to waste...simple conversion. HYDROJUNKIE gave me some great ideas and basically came up with the template for the design, which I amended a little bit.

MY PLAN

I will have TWO reservoirs...one rez will be the "supply" rez
Second rez will be the "waste collection" rez
My EXISTING DWC buckets will be "outer" buckets and ELEVATED slightly
These outer buckets will be fitted with 3.5g buckets with holes drilled in the bottom
LEGION gave me a great tip for a DIY root mat....I'll use the AC filter material to line the bottom of the buckets along with LAVA
As I water (and in the future drip)...the nutrient will drain to the outer buckets
These outer buckets are linked to the "waste collection" rez

At some point every phase of this setup will be automated....
I have a pump for supply (850gph)
and a pump for draining the "waste rez"

 

[EddieShoestring]

thanks, Blatant, for answering my silicon Q-and for the other coco info

i think i'm going to rig up drippers on a timer when i put them into flower
cheers
ES

 

[truecannabliss]

Guys i love this thread and am gonna get more active in here, would love for any of you that have not checked my grow thread to pass by(the link is below).....i've been growing 4 years in coco and love it.
Peace

 

[-VT-]

Gurgling

Gurgling

^^^That's an impressive thread

I was told gurgling is bad for the roots....this would apply to any handwatering hydro setup...soilless, as it were.

I noticed HYDROJUNKIE uses a wand to feed when he handwaters.....I just pour slowly....I use a small cup...measuring cups are geat cause they got that "scoop thing"

 

[Guest]

Heya Coco crew, doin and 8 plant scrog in 5ltr pots of coco on a clay bed in a tank lined with clay, flood and drain to waste. still usin the GT coco A n B.

 

[Bongojaz]

haven't posted here in a while. been doing a side by side with canna coco nutes (a+b) and house and garden (a+b) both coco specific. all i use as a sup is pro-tekt. both work very well, almost identical, so far. growing for clones 4 endless sky, 4 grenadine. two of each strain on different nutes. house and garnden is just a tiny bit better looking. been thinking of automating my feeding. feeding 2x a day. 20% run-off. they love it!!

 

[-VT-]

Nice feedback Bongojaz What size containers they in? Bags? Pots?
So far no one has any real nightmares with the major nute brands
Coco is more flexible as far as handling various nutes than I thought...
Folks have posted good results with about 5 nute brands....

 

[Guest]

haven't posted here in a while. been doing a side by side with canna coco nutes (a+b) and house and garden (a+b) both coco specific. all i use as a sup is pro-tekt. both work very well, almost identical, so far. growing for clones 4 endless sky, 4 grenadine. two of each strain on different nutes. house and garnden is just a tiny bit better looking. been thinking of automating my feeding. feeding 2x a day. 20% run-off. they love it!!

Funny..I'm doin a side by side with Gh floranova and House & Gaeden Coco A & B. 1 each of clones of the same nl, and one each of BH from seed. All females.

So far, I like the gh better. We'll see what happens in 12/12 soon.

Cheers,
SH

 

[Guest]

I forgot to mention I tried working out the ppms of various elements in the coco nutes im usin from the W%/V on the bottle
I think its correct anyway
GT Coco Bloom Part A+B full strength 1135.16ppm
N 157ppm P 21ppm K 160ppm
Ca 144ppm Mg 32ppm S 50ppm
Fe1.6ppm,Mn0.68ppm,B0.2ppm,Zn0.16ppm,Cu0.16ppm,Mo0.04ppm

hows that comparing to the other brands?

 

[Guest]

This is a post from a guy called tanga a few years back that might be useful to some of you. He used canna coco coir and received information from Canna about this medium and their nutes as follows:


Canna Coco Grow-Info

Coco made his major breakthrough in 1989 when it was introduced in Dutch
horticulture. It was used to replace potting soil but it also served as an
alternative for rockwool. The use of coco has tremendously increased since
then. One of the reasons is the high quality of the product and the
environmental friendly qualities of the medium.

Canna Coco consist of coco coir which is gained during the processing of
coco husks. Canna Coco has some superior qualities compared with other
media. The roots develop more intensive with more root hairs. Canna Coco is
free from diseases and contains the famous Trichoderma fungus, which
protects the plant against diseases and stimulates root development. Canna
Coco is available is in 50 litre bags and 1 meter slabs. The Canna Coco
liquid fertiliser contains all necessary plant nutrients and humic- and
fulvic acids. Humic- and fulvic acids are natural chelates which facilitates
in plant-nutrient-uptake.

How to use Canna Coco:

Preparation of the Coco

Before you put the plants on the slab you need to bring air into the slab.
The easiest way is by firmly pressing the sides of the slab together, or by
rolling them on their side. This is necessary to obtain an ideal air/ water
balance in the slab. Check if there are holes at the bottom of the slabs.
These holes are necessary for a good drainage.
When Canna Coco is used in pots make sure it is not pressed too strong.
Because of this the coco will contain more air with better root penetration
possibilities.

It is not necessary to drip Canna Coco full in advance. It is recommended to
drip the coco with nutrient solution (2 ml Coco A and 2 ml Coco B /litre; pH
5.5-6.0) until drain appears. The coco now contains enough nutrients and
water for a couple of days. Best time to put your plant on the coco is one
day after preparation.

Water regime

The total nutrient solution necessary for plants is dependent on many
factors (e.g. light intensity, temperature, air humidity, plant species). As
a general rule we recommend to give 5 litres /m2/day for full-grown plants.
When the plants have a low transpiration rate a strategy of feeding the
plants 3 times a week will be sufficient. By reducing the watering frequency
a better water replenishment is established, which improves the capacity for
absorption of all nutrients, optimises the drainage and air in the medium
and prevents accumulation of salts within the cocos. Make sure the coco
doesn't get too wet. A too wet medium is ideal for a fast development of
fungi diseases like Pythium and Fusarium.

You can check the moisture content of the medium by feeling the cocos in pot or slabs with your hands or by weight (lifting up pot or slab). By checking
the moisture content of the coco regularly differences in moisture content
during a couple of days can be noticed and water strategy can be adapted
perfectly to the plant needs. When little pots are used (smaller than 3
litre) the coco will dry out quicker and the water must be added more
frequent.

DRIPPING SYSTEM

We recommend that the dripping system is not used in short, frequent
sessions because it can cause a lot of differences within the nutrient dose
per plant. By dripping for longer periods, one or two times per day, the
nutrients are spread more evenly amongst the roots (e.g. 2 times 5 minutes a
day; 2 hours after lights go on and two hours after light go out).

DRAINAGE

Compare the water quantity you give the plants with the quantity that leaves
the drainage system. If the EC of the water is higher than 0.6 mS/cm, it is
better to increase the water dosage until a drain of 10-20 % has been
reached (1/10 to 1/5 part of the irrigation water has to leave the slab
again), because of possible salt accumulation.
In pots of 4 litres of more it is not recommended to work a drainage
percentage

Guideline of nutrients to be added

A and B concentrate always need to be used together in equal quantities for
all of our products. Do not mix A & B pure.
1st week COCO A&B 2 ml/litre (2 ml A & 2 ml B) EC 1.3-1.8
2nd until one week before harvest COCO A&B 3-4 ml/litre EC 1.8-2.3
final week no COCO A&B
Maximum EC level is 2.8 mS/cm. Nutrient requirement of plants is among
others dependent on plant species, light intensity and plant activity.
Recommended pH 5.5-6.0

How to re-use Canna Coco

Canna Coco can used 3 times without any problem. First make the structure of the Canna Coco loose again by pressing the sides of the slab together. At
intensive rooted spots it might be useful to use tools (rake) for loosening
the coco. After loosening the coco must be rinsed with a Cannazym solution.
This is necessary to remove accumulated salts and to improve the break down
of dead roots. Dosage of Cannazym: 10 ml/litre (dilution 1:100; pH 5.5-6.0
(pH - grow). Use 3-4 liters of Cannazym solution for one slab or 1,5-2 liter
for a 4 litre pot.

WARNING

Do not re-use Canna Coco when plants of the previous harvest had been
damaged by a disease (e.g. Pythium or Fusarium). It is most probable that
the disease will be present in the coco and will infect new plants.

Products which can be used together with Canna Coco

Rhizotonic
As soon as the plants are on the coco, we recommend to use Rhizotonic. It
stimulates the root growth and facilitates rooting within in the slab. More
vigorous plants are formed resulting in a more productive plant. Rhizotonic
can be added by spraying the leaves, by pouring or by dripping. Rhizotonic
can be used during the whole growing period; the recommended dosage is:
first week 4 ml /litre (1:250 dilution), second week 2 ml /litre (1:500
dilution), third until final week 0.5ml/litre (1:2000 dilution)

Cannazym
One week into plant growth on Canna Coco we recommend to add Cannazym to the nutrient solution. Cannazym breaks down dead roots, prevents plant illness, creates more air pockets, stimulates micro life in the soil and it makes
nutritious substances available to the plants. Cannazym can be added
continuously to the nutrient solution (dilution factor 1:400) or once a week
(dilution factor 1:100). Cannazym also takes care for better re-use
possibilities of Canna Coco (see how to re-use Canna Coco)

Trichoderma
Trichoderma is a mould with a scientifically proven stimulating and
resisting-increasing effect upon the root environment. Trichoderma can be
use by mixing it with soil or coco (TRI granulate), or by mixing it with
water and adding to the plant by hand at the beginning of the cultivation.
(TRI powder). TRI powder is also used in combination with cloning powder
(50/50% mixture).

PK 13/14
The plant requires additional phosphate and potassium during the bloom. This
can be provided by adding PK 13/14. It increases your harvest output and
encourages the growth of firm buds. We recommend to add PK 13/14 four weeks prior to harvest. Add PK 13/14 together with the nutrient solution for
maximum one week.

WARNING:
PK 13/14 and Canna Coco can be used together under normal circumstances,
although there are conditions under which the combination can cause
problems. This is the case in hard water areas. In these areas the Calcium
and bicarbonate content of the tapwater are high and the amount of pH -
bloom to correct the pH is high. If under such condition high amounts of PK
13/14 are used there is a high risk of precipitation (clogging) in the
nutrition tank. Under such condition we advise to use pH - grow instead of
pH - bloom. In most cases this solves the problem, but if not the advise is
not to use PK 13/14. Instead of PK 13/14, organo kali can be used to add
extra potassium (70 ml/100 litre).
If you don't know if you have hard water, first prepare a small amount of
nutrient solution (eg 10 litres of water, 40 ml coco A, 40 ml coco B, 15 ml
PK 13/14, set the pH with pH bloom between 5.5 and 6.0. If the solution is
still clear after a couple of days, PK 13/14 can by used without any
problem.

pH adjusters
The pH of 5.5-6.0 in the root environment is ideal. To increase the pH of
the nutrient solution you use an alkaline adjuster (CANNA pH +) . To
decrease the pH, use an acid solution e.g. Nitric acid (CANNA pH- grow) or
phosphoric acid (CANNA pH-bloom). For Organic growers we recommend to use Organo Acid to decrease the pH. Always keep the pH of the added nutrient solution between 5.0 and 6.5. Mix the nutrient solution thoroughly while correcting the pH. Check the pH of the nutrient solution a few hours after preparing. The pH in the medium can also by influence indirectly by using pH - Substra. pH - Substra will gradually decrease the pH in the medium. Two weeks after using pH- Substra a pH difference will be measurable.

WARNING
Setting the pH of the nutrient solution should done in one time. In practise
we often see that people use pH - and pH plus together. When too much pH -
is added this is corrected with pH plus and visa versa. The danger of such
acting is a disturbed nutrient balance which can result in lower yields. To
prevent overdosing pH - or pH + we recommend to dilute the pH product 10 to 100 times as soon as the desired pH is almost reached. Example: the desired pH is 5.8 and the pH of the nutrient solution is 6.8. First lower the pH
with pure pH - until the pH is 6.0-6.2. Then dilute a little amount of pH -
10 to 100 times. Use this diluted pH - to set the pH to 5.8

Measuring pH and EC in Canna Coco

Check the pH and EC of the medium regularly by taking samples and by
measuring according to the Dutch 1:1,5 extract method. With this method the
nutrient status of the coco is measured and action can be made to improve
the nutrient status. The 1:1.5 extraction method is also applicable on
potting soil.

First take a coco sample by taking coco out of the slab/pot. Take the coco
from as many different places as possible and not only from one spot (e.g.
only from one slab/pot or only from the upper side. This is important for
obtaining representative information.

Collect the sample in a dish. The coco needs to have the right moisture
content before measuring. The right moisture content in obtained when moist
drops out the coco when you squeeze it. When no drops of moist appear the
coco needs to be moistened with demineralised water until moist drops out
while squeezing

Next you fill a 250 ml measuring cup with 150 ml of demineralised water and
at coco until you have 250 ml. Mix the substance at wait for at least one
hour. The mixture is now ready to be filtered. You can use an ordinary
coffee filter. Now you can measure pH and EC of the filtrate.
The target for EC is between 1.0 and 1.2; for pH this is between 5.5 and
6.0. When the EC of the coco is lower then 0.8, then the EC of the nutrient
solution must be increased (e.g. increase EC from 1.5 to 1.8). When the EC
of the coco is higher than 1.5, then the EC of the nutrient solution must be
decreased (e.g. decrease from 1.5 to 1.0). Another possibility is to rinse
the substrate with water. Danger of rinsing while the plants are on the coco
is a too wet medium.
The pH of the medium can be corrected with pH adjusters (see pH adjusters)

Why no VEGA and FLORES on COCO
During the development of the Canna Coco nutrient solution the nutrient
status of the coco was monitored from start to harvest. Because of the
buffering capacity of coco, the nutrient status of the medium slowly
changes. At the start of the growing period analysis showed values equal to
the growing target composition. At the end of the blooming period analysis
showed values equal to the blooming target values. This discovery have made
growing on Canna Coco a lot easier !!

EXTRA TIPs
* Do not place too many plants per square meter; plants will generally
become larger on Canna Coco and , dependent on the type, will need more
space than on rock wool or potting soil. Normally 12 hours lighting can be
started one to three days earlier on Canna Coco.
* Mix your potting soil with 40 % Canna Coco. The result is a more light
mixture with is less sensitive to shrink.
There can never be too many drain holes/slits! Place the slabs as
horizontally as possible. If there is sloping, ensure the presence of extra
drain slits at the lowest point of the slab.


cheers,

 

[HYDROJUNKIE]

Excellent post Unbound! im sure that will pretty much answer alot of peoples questions....
Its nice to see that my grow methods are pretty similar to what canna suggests.
on a side note I wanted to mention that canna has a ppm of around 80 when measuring runoff and most other companys are in the 200 ppm range....they flush their coco pretty well,....which is why its usually still wet in the stores...
im currently using a 25/75% mix of canna coco and profit disks...
the only drawback of canna coco that ive noticed is that its very fine.
profit disks have to be the coursest coco ive seen so far which should allow for more explosive root development and 02....
after filling my pots Ive been ''fluffing'' up the coco by massaging the pots in a circular movement.....this helps to loosen it up a bit.

 

[-VT-]

Hey guys I've read it's hard to overwater with coco...but then I've also read that overwatering is a common problem ....is the overwatering more prevalent in 100% coco? In my 50/50 perlite mix it just seems impossible to overwater

One of my clones got a dark green color recently...the beer cup got dry as heck (she has outgrown it and I've been lazy)...not sure what this means...not sure if the dark green color is a symptom of something related to the lack of feeding (and stress) or not...

 

[Guest]

G'day, great thread. I have been subscribed to this thread from the getgo. I reckon I am probably guilty of underwatering, but still get results. feed with minimum to nil runnoff.
One thing I have learnt is that if ya clones are look'n poorly in R/wool, pull 'em out and stick 'em straight into coco, clones that have any life left in 'em will immediately perk up and respond well.

Stay Safe. Peace.

 

[Guest]

That's a good point you make -VT- about the coco bein cut 50%.. I was thinkin about that with the non-coco specific nutes as well. I cut my coco 50% with hydroton and that might be why non-coco nutes are working fine for me. dunno if 100% coco would be the same. I run ebb-flow in veg and transplant to 3.5 gal buckets, top feed for flower.

Another reason why I like coco alot is that I've left my water pump off, no water for 24 hours and the plants didn't sag or droop a bit.. I have also left the pumps timer in the on position, watering constant for 24 hours as well and the plants looked the same! pretty forgiving hydro medium I'd say.

 

[Blatant]

Oh Yeah!

Oh Yeah!

Ive been ''fluffing'' up the coco by massaging the pots in a circular movement.....this helps to loosen it up a bit.

Man even Coco gets some action!

Nah but on the realla! I would figure overwatering comes with those that Water without run to waste at High PPM's in Pure Coco. Coco alone has such High Water Retention that if you feed without runoff the accumulation of nutrients in the medium will lockout your roots and give the appearance of overwatering as you go along.

-VT- your lil plant is probably just ready to get down to business and Grow. Transplant that sucka.

Blatant

 

[Crazy Leaf]

(noob question) im growing in 100% coco , one of my pots is 4½ (deep) and 6½ (width) , im gonna start feeding this one soon , so i was wondering if anyone could maybe estimate just how much water i should give this plant? im thinking 1ml of A+B with the water to start with? (first feeding)

 

[Guest]

^^ Since you're in pure coco...be careful how wet it stays. Don't water too often when they're young. You want the roots to look for water, not become lazy.

Just use the lift method. If it feels heavy...it's already saturated. If it's really light...you need water now! You can mix up your nutes in a container of water, and just give 1 or 200 ml of feed water for now until it starts to drink. As the plant container becomes lighter...you can increase the amount of water, and the frequency of watering.

Cheers,
SH