University of Guelph paper- Flushing is a myth!

[hambre]

I don`t know if anyone put this study here but here we go: https://www.rxgreentechnologies.com/rxgt_trials/flushing-trial/

Flushing doesn`t affect taste, production, minerals on the buds, etc. What you can do is save a lot of nutes. Do you grow organic? No flush, easy. Flush to correct a problem? Yes, of course.

 

[hambre]

And I saw someone comment saying the plant doesn`t make photosyntesis the last weeks and this is NOT true. Don`t make things up. Think logically, if they don`t do photosyntesis why don`t we shut the lights off and we can save power money and nutes at the same time? Why bother to grow, huh? Man...

 

[CrustyCruz]

I don`t know if anyone put this study here but here we go: https://www.rxgreentechnologies.com/...lushing-trial/

Flushing doesn`t affect taste, production, minerals on the buds, etc. What you can do is save a lot of nutes. Do you grow organic? No flush, easy. Flush to correct a problem? Yes, of course.

The labs this company used aren't even capable of testing for off flavors in Cannabis that come from excess fertilizers. The human body is very capable. I'm guessing their test subjects have never smoked anything but overfed chemical crap.

I see it every day. They call it "gas" in my neighhood when the bud has been ruined by phosphorus OD. You simply can't discuss this with most pot growers for the same reason I suppose. It's not phosphorus causing the flavor, it's carbon attached to the phosphorus source, but pot growers refuse to accept that plants uptake carbon. (enjoy your cancer everyone, even all you pseudo hippy biochar bros out there)

 

[GMT]

What's the C in CO2? What do they breath in, what do they breath out? Plants need the carbon.
show me any life form that's not carbon based.

 

[hambre]

The labs this company used aren't even capable of testing for off flavors in Cannabis that come from excess fertilizers. The human body is very capable. I'm guessing their test subjects have never smoked anything but overfed chemical crap.

I see it every day. They call it "gas" in my neighhood when the bud has been ruined by phosphorus OD. You simply can't discuss this with most pot growers for the same reason I suppose. It's not phosphorus causing the flavor, it's carbon attached to the phosphorus source, but pot growers refuse to accept that plants uptake carbon. (enjoy your cancer everyone, even all you pseudo hippy biochar bros out there)

What? What? Wait. What? They tested the final product, there you have it, read it at least. The plant takes what it needs, no more. Tell me how is physically possible to remove nutrients from the buds to make them taste better just flushing the subtrate???? Show me ONE study that probes "carbon attached (which I would die to know how it works) to the phosporous source" cause "gas" taste on a bud and I will apology...

 

[hambre]

The labs this company used aren't even capable of testing for off flavors in Cannabis that come from excess fertilizers. The human body is very capable. I'm guessing their test subjects have never smoked anything but overfed chemical crap.

I see it every day. They call it "gas" in my neighhood when the bud has been ruined by phosphorus OD. You simply can't discuss this with most pot growers for the same reason I suppose. It's not phosphorus causing the flavor, it's carbon attached to the phosphorus source, but pot growers refuse to accept that plants uptake carbon. (enjoy your cancer everyone, even all you pseudo hippy biochar bros out there)

And you will have cancer just for smoking, so... Why bother, huh?

 

[CrustyCruz]

I don't even have to leave my house to know who grows unflushed weed. Just ask them what their cut smells like.

Why does this guys cut of MAC smell like Botanicare instead of MAC?

BECAUSE FL00SHING IS MYTH??

 

[Jim Rockford]

I've seen a few papers back this up but not everything is understood. I've grown since 1986. There is a difference if you flush or don't in the taste and harshness. At some point science and studies will find out why. Numerous times I've intentionally flushed and not flushed side by side plants of the same strain. There is an obvious difference to every tester when I've done this. There is a lot more to learn on this subject.

 

[CannaRed]

What is run-off ec values for your control and your flushed pots before and after flush?

 

[f-e]

Irrigation Management Strategies for Medical Cannabis in Controlled Environments
By
Jonathan Stemeroff
A Thesis
presented to
The University of Guelph
In partial fulfilment of requirements
for the degree of
Master of Science
in
Environmental Science
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
© Jonathan Stemeroff, November, 2017
Irrigation Management Strategies for Medical Cannabis in Controlled Environments
J. Stemeroff, MSc
Erratum Document for Previously Approved E-Thesis Submission
A post-approval (re)-examination of the raw data discovered unrecoverable errors in the
handling and reporting of the water potential data, with further issues regarding the nature of
the treatment differences. The general errors are:
1) Upon further review of the raw data logs it was discovered that the Control and Mild
Stress treatments were in fact the same (ref. page 38). Both treatments had the same
number of irrigation events (i.e. total water applied was the same) in all three trials.
The irrigation events were offset by 1-day but they both occurred at 2-day intervals.
a. Resolution – Any observed differences between the control and mild stress
treatment should be disregarded. Detected differences in agronomic and
metabolite production between the Control and Mild Stress treatments can only
be attributed to random chance and variation in the growth facility, not a
response to distinct irrigation regimes. Affected Figures – Disregard Control and
Mild Stress treatment effects in Figures 4.11 (page 54) and 4.13 (page 55)
2) Raw data was not properly filtered to remove erroneous readings (e.g., positive values
of plant water potential; non-sinusoidal or flat line response) resulting from instrument
fouling and condensation within the sensing chamber. The inclusion of erroneous data
resulted in skewed relationships between cumulative plant water potential and
cumulative vapour pressure deficit.
a. Resolution – Disregard the relationships depicted in Figures 4.1 (page 44), 4.2
(page 45), 4.3 (page 46), 4.4 (page 47), 4.5 (page 48), 4.6 (page 49), 4.7 (page
50), 4.8 (page 51), and 4.9 (page 52).
3) The apparent two-phase relationship between CWP and CVP shown in Figure 4.1 (page
44) and subsequently highlighted and independently analysed in Figures 4.2 (page 45)
and 4.3 (page 46), is the result of missing data (logger failure) during the middle phase
of the first growth cycle; the missing data was not properly accommodated resulting in
an apparent separation of the response relationship between early and late growth
periods. The subsequent analysis of flower cycles 2 and 3 included an analysis of this
artifact-based separation; as such, Figures 4.5 (page 48), 4.6 (page 49), 4.8 (page 51),
and 4.9 (page 52) are not meaningful as there is no data to suggest or support treating
the data as two distinct groups.
Based on the above errors, any conclusions outlined in section 6.1 (page 62-65) should also be
disregarded.
3
ABSTRACT
Irrigation Management Strategies for Medical Cannabis in Controlled Environments
Jonathan Stemeroff Advisor:
University of Guelph, 2017 Professor M.A. Dixon
Medical cannabis production is a new industry in Canada and represents a challenge
for the production of a repeatable and standardized product for medical use. A reliable and
reproducible environmental control strategy can contribute significantly to meeting this
challenge. Irrigation management and control of plant water status is one of the key
environmental control elements. To assess the effects of various irrigation management
strategies this study deployed in situ stem psychrometers to measure the water status of
plants. As a routine feedback device for irrigation control these devices are not ideal for
large-scale production so correlation with the key environment variable representing the
aerial demand for moisture (vapour pressure deficit) was assessed. By establishing a
relationship between cumulative water potential (cWP) and cumulative vapour pressure
deficit (cVPD) an irrigation management strategy that predicted plant water status based on
measurements of cVPD could be employed. Three treatments; control (irrigation events every
1-2 days), mild-stress (irrigation events every 2 days), and moderate-stress (irrigation events
every 3 days) were tested. The effects of flushing were also investigated to determine
whether it had the intended effect of reducing nutrient concentrations within the dried bud.
Through the use of psychrometers, water status (cWP) thresholds were correlated with
humidity (cVPD) thresholds and reduced irrigation frequency resulting in water use
reductions up to 45.7% which had negligible impacts on yield and cannabinoid profile.
Flushing was found to be ineffective in removing any significant amount of nutrient from the
bud.

Breaking that Ctrl+P down into three chunks. We have the BOLD CLAIM. Then before that the students work. Before which the teachers response of teabagging them. In fact, the report on how much the pupil got wrong, is the longer part of this document. This pupil watered some plants on 'even' days of the month, and some on 'odd' days. Then called one room the control, and the other stressed. Reporting to us, the difference in water use. Then, If I remember rightly, they did some vpd work. Using the results from a datalogger they forgot to switch on.

They seem well qualified to me. There can't be a difference

 

[Brother Nature]

Breaking that Ctrl+P down into three chunks. We have the BOLD CLAIM. Then before that the students work. Before which the teachers response of teabagging them. In fact, the report on how much the pupil got wrong, is the longer part of this document. This pupil watered some plants on 'even' days of the month, and some on 'odd' days. Then called one room the control, and the other stressed. Reporting to us, the difference in water use. Then, If I remember rightly, they did some vpd work. Using the results from a datalogger they forgot to switch on.

They seem well qualified to me. There can't be a difference

Musta been smoking some good shit...

 

[farmerlion]

Many people's growing styles is strongly defended with ignorance and pride. Especially indoor growers that have limitations to the environmental conditions. Often short cuts, gimmicks and baseless claims of potency, quantity and improved quality are sold/promised.
. Thinking that research and knowledge is being gained. Unsuspecting growers by into the hype and accept it as true. Compounded by numerous growing sites that actually have very few people with real knowledge. This information is passed along, including techniques that aren't actually tested in side by side grows.

Here is some simple truths, super cropping doesn't give you more and bigger buds.
Nobody goes to the doctor for a second circumcision, it's not making your dick bigger !

Flushing only changes the Ph of your growing medium. You don't flush chemotherapy from a cancer patient.

Plant seeds directly into the final growing container, never transplant.

If you have a 4' x 4' tent, find a single container the same size or build one. Calving sleds or ice fishing sleds work great for this. Your plants will respond in ways you won't believe.

Make thumb size holes in your soil going to the bottom. Rotate blending potatoes, bananas and water melons topping off the blender with water. Purree until there's no noticeable pulp. Fill all holes with the sugary mixture. This will supply everything your roots need all the way through harvest.

I have done this for five years and my plants have never been bigger or stronger. I don't have insects in my greenhouse that ever get out of balance. Healthy plants don't get infestations. You don't have to replace your soil it only gets better with each grow. You will see the best phenotypic expressions you have ever had.

Enjoy your next grow!
Peace farmerlion
MedDakotabis

 

[Hatery1967]

I've tested flushed and unflushed side by side, there is a noticeable difference in the final product no doubt. Flushed burns better, doesn't spark or sizzle, tastes cleaner near the end of the bowl, and smolders to a much softer ash. There is a big difference, I don't see how people can debate it unless they haven't tried it themselves or are doing things very differently than I nutritionally. I haven't tried it with every cut of every strain but I doubt it can vary much to where it wouldn't be noticeable when compared. If you gave me two nugs of the same cut and one was not flushed I am confident I could tell you which by only sampling one of them to the bottom of the bowl. Maybe it's not a nutrient factor, but the flush definitely makes a difference.

Tell them to test it in a bowl, that's where the answer really is to the questions that matter.

I didn't notice the difference

 

[Hatery1967]

The labs this company used aren't even capable of testing for off flavors that come from excess fertilizers. The human body is very capable. I'm guessing their test subjects have never smoked anything but overfed chemical crap.

I see it every day. They call it "gas" in my neighhood when the bud has been ruined by phosphorus OD. You simply can't discuss this with most pot growers for the same reason I suppose. It's not phosphorus causing the flavor, it's carbon attached to the phosphorus source, but pot growers refuse to accept that plants uptake carbon. (enjoy your cancer everyone, even all you pseudo hippy biochar bros out there)
I studied at this university. It was very difficult, especially since I was very lazy. I often found research proposal writing service, used https://edubirdie.com/research-proposal-writing-service for this. The times were not the best, of course. But I did it and I'm proud of myself. In any case, I had to study.

How is this possible?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

The more you're overfeeding, the bigger a difference you'll notice between your 'side by side' flushed and unflushed flowers.

You can cut my cannabis at ANY time in the grow and never get sparking or harshness. Supagreen flavor? Yes! lol Not harsh though.

 

[Normannen]

I've done both flushing and not, I must say that flushing takes away weight from the bud at the end, not a huge difference, but a good 5% that can scale depending on how its grown.
EDIT: *added wet weight, but reduced dry weight by ca 5%

 

[Azeotrope]

The labs this company used aren't even capable of testing for off flavors in Cannabis that come from excess fertilizers. The human body is very capable. I'm guessing their test subjects have never smoked anything but overfed chemical crap.

I see it every day. They call it "gas" in my neighhood when the bud has been ruined by phosphorus OD. You simply can't discuss this with most pot growers for the same reason I suppose. It's not phosphorus causing the flavor, it's carbon attached to the phosphorus source, but pot growers refuse to accept that plants uptake carbon. (enjoy your cancer everyone, even all you pseudo hippy biochar bros out there)

Absolute bro science and pure garbage from you. Not to mention your shitty attitude.

 

[Azeotrope]

Many people's growing styles is strongly defended with ignorance and pride. Especially indoor growers that have limitations to the environmental conditions. Often short cuts, gimmicks and baseless claims of potency, quantity and improved quality are sold/promised.
. Thinking that research and knowledge is being gained. Unsuspecting growers by into the hype and accept it as true. Compounded by numerous growing sites that actually have very few people with real knowledge. This information is passed along, including techniques that aren't actually tested in side by side grows.

Here is some simple truths, super cropping doesn't give you more and bigger buds.
Nobody goes to the doctor for a second circumcision, it's not making your dick bigger !

Flushing only changes the Ph of your growing medium. You don't flush chemotherapy from a cancer patient.

Plant seeds directly into the final growing container, never transplant.

If you have a 4' x 4' tent, find a single container the same size or build one. Calving sleds or ice fishing sleds work great for this. Your plants will respond in ways you won't believe.

Make thumb size holes in your soil going to the bottom. Rotate blending potatoes, bananas and water melons topping off the blender with water. Purree until there's no noticeable pulp. Fill all holes with the sugary mixture. This will supply everything your roots need all the way through harvest.

I have done this for five years and my plants have never been bigger or stronger. I don't have insects in my greenhouse that ever get out of balance. Healthy plants don't get infestations. You don't have to replace your soil it only gets better with each grow. You will see the best phenotypic expressions you have ever had.

Enjoy your next grow!
Peace farmerlion
MedDakotabis

Excellent and 100% on point. I follow almost all the truth's you list except for the holes and blended inputs. I just have a huge colony of composting worms in the 60galalon fabric pot and I add organic cilantro/coriander, celery, kale, asparagus, any leaf material or culled males, kelp/alfalfa/azomite/bonemeal/guano/rabbitpoo, coco fiber, gravel/basalt/rock to the top layer beneath the mulch and all is good.

 

[TrainingHay]

Absolute bro science and pure garbage from you. Not to mention your shitty attitude.

Don't let Cruz make you cry because your PK booster "gas" garden hose dmt kiddy pool pool cleaner pool floaty knockoff Chinese iPhone case flavored weed sucks. I hear it's real easy for Cruz to make people cry so he just pisses them off instead. It funnels the retards into one giant shit heap so I can easily walk around it.

Cruz told me he got paid to grow shitty weed for multiple years, just to find out what's wrong with all the plastic hydroponic crap on the marketing. You're gonna cry when federal legalization brings real marketing, authentic training (not that Ganjier fraud) and grow style regulations to the industry. Don't blame Cruz.

 

[StonedPone]

Great conversation!
Let's assume that flushing is pointless, yet a number of people claim to get some weird flavors or a harshness typically not associated with weed.
Crusty suggests carbon being the source, I find this plausible, hear me out.
As a homebewer I keg my beers and apply co2, if I get it wrong I get a carbonic acid burn when tasting the beer. ( think the burn when drinking Coke)
So could what people are getting is carbonic acid ? Someone in another thread mentioned that he was curing his jars upside down on a screen so as to allow the co2 escape.
Without a way for the co2 to escape in a closed jar, I would think it would have a negative effect on the weed.
What do you think?