U.S. Government spying on entire U.S., to nobody's surprise

[idiit]

my bad if i was jacking the thread. imo it all weaves but we do need to stay on track.

the thread is about nsa spying.

the question as to why and how the nsa can keep up their war on humanity is thread relevant.

speculation w/o strong supporting evidence is not good for how well this thread is doing.

 

[bombadil.360]

This thread is spinning off from topic, lets keep it to Edward Snowden and the NSA scandal(?) shall we.
Will he release more information?,
What could his next revelation be?,
How do you think he will be able to leave Moscow?,
Will he be able to leave Moscow?,
Whats his next move folks?,
Very quiet in the media about this, really thought this wouldnt be one of those "Two week storys" that they just put on the shelf.

Whats the fucking NEWS?

if he releases more info, it will be like the stuff that leaks through wikileaks, nothing paradigm shifting.

if he leaves moscow, we won't know how.

we don't even know if he's in moscow to begin with.

if he has anything substantial, his next move has to be to disclose it; if he doesn't have anything substantial, the Russians will turn him in because no one will give him asylum in exchange of nothing major. Venezuela's government won't risk it if they cannot gain a wild-card to use in negotiating a better oil-price.

imo of course.

peace

 

[gaiusmarius]

if he releases more info, it will be like the stuff that leaks through wikileaks, nothing paradigm shifting.

if he leaves moscow, we won't know how.

we don't even know if he's in moscow to begin with.

if he has anything substantial, his next move has to be to disclose it; if he doesn't have anything substantial, the Russians will turn him in because no one will give him asylum in exchange of nothing major. Venezuela's government won't risk it if they cannot gain a wild-card to use in negotiating a better oil-price.

imo of course.

peace

we can assume he is still in Moscow as he was a few days ago when he gave the first interview since arriving there.

we know he wants temporary asylum in Russia, also that the Russian, minister in charge of migration and asylum after interviewing Snowden, has stated that he will most likely get asylum as he is in fear of torture and life in prison plus cruel and humiliating treatment which violates human rights. this is apparently enough as it is known that the US does practice torture and does mistreat prisoners like Manning and we know Manning is looking at life plus 150 years.

further more we hear that he wants to go to South America in the end and that Russian asylum is just a way to get a id that will allow him to travel. how much of his real plans he has shared is another matter, but thats where things stand according to latest reliable reports.

 

[CannaBunkerMan]

I believe that the common idea that ties this thread together is freedom of information. I believe that the government spying is only secondary. Should the government be in the business of suppressing information that is in the best interest of citizens to know, understand and discuss? It seems almost hourly that I read another article that discusses the attempted censorship of more knowledge.

Maybe the era of the secret has passed. Maybe it's ignorant to think that we can keep secrets from our government, and not the other way around. The free flow of information is a sword of Damocles, it cuts both ways. Who knows?

 

[BullDogUK]

You know there are reliable sites that have been covering this haha

There has been a lot of wild scaremongering on this page, so I would just say that the powers that be always want people to think they are more powerful than they are. So they've been spying on us. Great, we now have proof but if you didn't know that that has been the case since the '70's then you have been fast asleep.

Now, HAARP, mind control, remote assassinations... seriously guys, even if this shit is possible, why would they bother? I suppose you've all heard of 1984, how many of you also read Brave New World?


On Alex Jones; he has some good things to say and I do feel he is worth listening to provided you put your own research into what he says, but do not think that this man is a positive force or that he has some kind of 'full picture' view of things. He sees everything, right down to the CPS, as some kind of conspiracy against the people of America.

I mean jeez, I know I've said it a few times, but you Americans have it OK, you at least have the power to act against these people. What are the rest of us in the world supposed to do until then?

 

[Apache Kush]

the elite dark cabal will continue to punish patriots as traitors for as long as they can get away with it.

as far as the disinfo campaign, it's been their agenda for a very long time.

the only power in america powerful enogh to take on the cabal's choke hold on msm, politicians, judges, financial system et al is the us military. contrary to what msm would have the public believe the overwhelming number of past and present military members are true patriots and there is a massive organized movement by the loosely aligned "white knights" to bring america and the world back to "governed by the people".

the deep woo part of this story involves aliens; beneficial and malevolent.

ty dude... thats what i was saying and I got crucified by some a-hole.

Snowden is a pysh-op... it lets all other whistle blowers know there fate if they tell us whats being planned so no others will flip

 

[Apache Kush]

the answer to 1984 is 1776

 

[BullDogUK]

Speculation is just another distraction.

 

[bentom187]

the term civil libertairian is a false one.
libertarian is a philosophy more so than political party ,the single way you can define a libertarian is they believe in the non-aggression principal ,wich states that the only valid use of force is self defense. the term civil refers to a set of roman laws and privilages bestowed on the citizen slaves of rome, they did that using force fraud and coercion. which not at all libertarian.
its just one of those terms the media uses to make the meaning ambiguous to the average person. specificly i think it is to make the term palatable to the neo-cons and neo-libs,so that if the resident war hawks that might remain in congress, want war ,they can sell it to their base easier.

what I would say is that if you want the truth,start reading on where our system of law, LOL, comes from.


Romney: Corporations Are People, My Friend
[YOUTUBEIF]KlPQkd_AA6c[/YOUTUBEIF]



The CORPORATION of the United States of America. USA is a CORPORATION
[YOUTUBEIF]ZxzLHbRGCH4[/YOUTUBEIF]

oh and yes CPS is cut from the same cloth of scum as well.
CPS Juvenile Court Crime Ring Operates Under Color of Law - Attorney
[YOUTUBEIF]BaXINizSj7E[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[devilgoob]

To the person saying "stay on topic."

Stop telling us that.

Howard Snowden giving this information is just showing how people now just wake up

The ones that have known for a while are the ones in this thread. Not the people riding on the Snowden wave, or wanting a story thread, but the ones who want to engage in speaking about the surveillance of which they are not surprised of it's happening.

It's in bold. It doesn't have Snowden's name at all. IT IS THE TOPIC.

 

[gaiusmarius]

To the person saying "stay on topic."

Stop telling us that.

Howard Snowden giving this information is just showing how people now just wake up

The ones that have known for a while are the ones in this thread. Not the people riding on the Snowden wave, or wanting a story thread, but the ones who want to engage in speaking about the surveillance of which they are not surprised of it's happening.

It's in bold. It doesn't have Snowden's name at all. IT IS THE TOPIC.

while i understand the sentiment, the person asking for this thread to stay on topic is only acting in the interest of preserving this discussion.

this thread is not an excuse or opportunity to bring up every false flag event in the last 100 years. while i do agree that a lot of these subjects tie in together, that doesn't mean they have to be covered in the same thread.

anyway so far most have upheld a certain level of general friendliness and thats what's allowed this thread to go on as long as it has. i hope things continue in that vain.

 

[bombadil.360]

we can assume he is still in Moscow as he was a few days ago when he gave the first interview since arriving there.

we know he wants temporary asylum in Russia, also that the Russian, minister in charge of migration and asylum after interviewing Snowden, has stated that he will most likely get asylum as he is in fear of torture and life in prison plus cruel and humiliating treatment which violates human rights. this is apparently enough as it is known that the US does practice torture and does mistreat prisoners like Manning and we know Manning is looking at life plus 150 years.

further more we hear that he wants to go to South America in the end and that Russian asylum is just a way to get a id that will allow him to travel. how much of his real plans he has shared is another matter, but thats where things stand according to latest reliable reports.

well, it is admirable the good-nature you assign to russian politicians when you say they are trying to help Snowden so as to avoid any forms of human rights violations.

to me it seems a bit naive, but I think in many aspects I'm in the deep-end of cynicism, so who am I to judge?

at this point I think Snowden got into this without having thought through the many possibilities quite well.

I ask, how could a guy who is trying to leak supposedly paradigm shifting info, did not see how his passport could be deactivated?

he claimed that the government killing him was a possibility, yet did not see the passport angle?

things begin to stink a bit.

peace

 

[gaiusmarius]

i think you are reading more into what i said then i meant to say. i'm saying those things are enough for the asylum application to be granted. any refugee who can show that he is in danger of being tortured, locked up without trail indefinitely, or extra judiciary execution has to be granted asylum according to human rights convention. i made no mention of their motives in this, i'm sure Snowden couldn't care less, as long as he's allowed to stay free.

for sure he'll be safer in Russia, he's not wanted there for a start.

 

[bentom187]

anonymous hacks FEMA database and exposes workers.

http://thehackernews.com/2013/07/Anonymous-hacker-FEMA-database.html

 

[bentom187]

more spying

Move over NSA, here comes the Obamacare Big Brother database -

http://rare.us/story/move-over-nsa-here-comes-the-obamacare-big-brother-database/


Would you trust thousands of low-level Federal bureaucrats and contractors with one-touch access to your private financial and medical information? Under Obamacare you won’t have any choice. As the Obamacare train-wreck begins to gather steam, there is increasing concern in Congress over something called the Federal Data Services Hub. The Data Hub is a comprehensive database of personal information being established by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to implement the federally facilitated health insurance exchanges. The purpose of the Data Hub, according to a June 2013 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, is to provide “electronic, near real-time access to federal data” and “access to state and third party data sources needed to verify consumer-eligibility information.” In these days of secret domestic surveillance by the intelligence community, rogue IRS officials and state tax agencies using private information for political purposes, and police electronically logging every license plate that passes by, the idea of the centralized Data Hub is making lawmakers and citizens nervous. They certainly should be; the potential for abuse is enormous. The massive, centralized database will include comprehensive personal information such as income and financial data, family size, citizenship and immigration status, incarceration status, social security numbers, and private health information. It will compile dossiers based on information obtained from the IRS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Veterans Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, the Social Security Administration, state Medicaid databases, and for some reason the Peace Corps. The Data Hub will provide web-based, one-stop shopping for prying into people’s personal affairs. Not to fear, HHS says, the Data Hub will be completely secure. Really? Secure like all the information that has been made public in the Wikileaks era? These days no government agency can realistically claim that private information will be kept private, especially when it is being made so accessible. Putting everyone’s personal information in once place only simplifies the challenge for those looking to hack into the system. However, the hacker threat is the least of the Data Hub worries. The hub will be used on a daily basis by so-called Navigators, which according to the GAO are “community and consumer-focused nonprofit groups, to which exchanges award grants to provide fair and impartial public education” and “refer consumers as appropriate for further assistance.” Thousands of such people will have unfettered access to the Data Hub, but there are only sketchy guidelines on how they will be hired, trained and monitored. Given the slap-dash, incoherent way Obamacare is being implemented the prospect for quality control is low. And the Obama administration’s track record of sweetheart deals, no-bid, sole-source contracting and other means of rewarding people with insider access means the Data Hub will be firmly in the hands of trusted White House loyalists. So if you think the IRS targeting Tea Party groups was bad, just wait for the Obamacare Navigators to be unleashed. “Trust us,” the administration says, no one will abuse the Data Hub. Sure, because that has worked out so well in the past - See more at: http://rare.us/story/move-over-nsa-...re-big-brother-database/#sthash.WkCYNXVW.dpuf

 

[PirateGodBuggy]

Meanwhile people are spying on US Government..

It goes both ways.

 

[draztik]

Meanwhile people are spying on US Government..

It goes both ways.

Your statement makes no sense at all in a "Government of the people, for the people, and by the people." But is the truth in a tyrannical dictatorship building a hi-tech scientific police state. Unfortunatley your way of thinking has been programmed into millions of Americans by the establishments social engineers through the government controlled public education system and mass media outlets shaping young minds and old alike to destroy America from within.

 

[frito bandito]

FWIW as the OP I don't mind if the thread goes a bit off track, as long as it stays on the theme of the U.S. Government vs the People!


"‘They Hate Us Because of Our Freedom’
Whenever I hear “they hate us because of our freedom” or “because they hate our way of life” or some other such drivel, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. If real people didn’t suffer the consequences of it, such ignorance would be amusing.

But another annoying thing about statements like these is that they perpetuate the myth that we live in a land of freedom.

The sad fact is, we are not free, and haven’t been for a long, long time.

In They Thought they Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45, Milton Mayer wrote about how the German people kept believing they were still free while the Nazis were tightening their control and extending their power over every facet of life. At first people refused to see the obvious, because the infringements on their freedom were coming in small steps. Each of those small steps, on its own, seemed to be no big deal, nothing to rebel against. But by the time you could no longer ignore the big picture, it was too late. “Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing) . . . You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.”

Remember, all the people had to do for all that to happen was–nothing. The same phenomenon is happening right here, right now, in the U.S. of A. It had been proceeding at a slower rate than 70 years ago in Germany, but now the pace quickens.

I know there are some who will say “Wait a minute, fella. You’re going too far. The U.S. of A. is still a free country.”

O.K., then. If you’re free, you should have no trouble doing something that people have done for time immemorial. Buy a cow, shelter and feed and care for it, milk it, and sell the milk. Go ahead, try it and see what happens. Come back and let us know how free you are to do such a simple thing, which has been done since the dawn of civilization.

Freedom is a state of being where an individual does not have to get permission in order to do something that harms no one else’s person or property. How many things can you do without getting some form of government permission?

Can you build your house on your own property without obtaining government approval? Can you put a new room on your house? Or a new porch? Put in a new toilet? Or even put a shed in your backyard? If you are not free to make your home on your own property, you are not free.

Once you have that home, can you refuse to sell it to the government if they want to use your land for some other purpose?

Can you make them go away simply by telling them, “I will not sell you my property, at any price!” If you are not free to choose if, when, how, to whom, and for how much you will sell your property, you are not free.

Can you drive a motor vehicle across this “free” country without someone in government approving of you as a driver? Or without getting government permission to use that vehicle on the roads? If you are not free to travel without permission, you are not free.

Can you buy a pistol without government permission? Can you drive across the country with it on your person, even if you have permission to drive a properly permitted vehicle? There’s a man, a good man from what I’ve heard, and who got in trouble in Ohio for doing just that. And I’ll bet there are many more good people that I haven’t heard of who wound up in similar trouble. Let’s remind them how free they are.

Could anyone even ride a horse cross-country, with an old Winchester rifle in a scabbard, without being hassled? If you are not free to have a firearm at hand for self-defense, no matter where you go, you are not free.

Are you free to say to the government, “I don’t like your retirement plan; therefore, I will no longer pay for it?” Can you, without penalty, tell the government that you will no longer pay for subsidies, for regulations, for wars, for empire, or for any activities that you disapprove? If you are not free to refuse to pay for things that you do not want, you are not free. If the government decides it needs more troops to build and maintain its empire, can you refuse to go if it calls for you? Will they leave you alone if you tell them you won’t kill and die for them? Can you simply ignore the draft, without consequence? Can you refuse to be a conscripted slave? If you are not free to tell the government “Hell no, I won’t go!” you are not free.

Can you open a business, like a simple barbershop, without government permission? Or how about a bakery? A diner? A hot dog stand? A gun shop? It’s been said that before we invaded Iraq, there were more gun shops in Baghdad than in Washington D.C. Can you wire or plumb or fix TVs or cars without a government license? If you’re not free to make a living without getting permission, you are not free.

And once you have government approval to open a restaurant or bar, are you free to decide what people may do within your business? Can you choose whether or not they may smoke on the premises? Are you free to invite them to light up and enjoy a cigarette, a cigar, or a pipe with their drink, or after their meal? If you are not free to decide what people may or may not do on your property or within your business, you are not free.

Are you free to smoke a joint? Are you free to hire someone to help you satisfy a physical urge? You can do both in the same afternoon in Amsterdam. I haven’t heard of anybody attacking the Dutch because of their freedom.

If you are not free to entertain your mind and body in any way that does not harm another, with anyone who is willing, you are not free.

Can you undergo any medical treatment you think is in your best interest? Can you use whatever drug you deem appropriate for your condition? Can you even get some marijuana to help you avoid nausea so you can keep your meds from coming back up? Can you get it just to feel a little better for a little while? If you are not free to pursue any treatment or use any substance you think might help you obtain, regain, or retain your health, you are not free.

Are you able to criticize political candidates by name? A week before the next election or primary, place a newspaper or TV or magazine or radio ad criticizing a candidate. Let us know how you fare. The Supreme Court says it’s okay to make that a crime. If you are not free to talk about politicians at any time, at any place, by any means, in any form, you are not free.

Can you take your children out of a government or conventional private school setting, without explaining to some bureaucrat how you plan to educate them? Can you homeschool them without getting government approval of your lesson plans?

Can you tell everyone to buzz off, that it’s none of their business how or if you educate your kids? If you are not free to teach your children what you want, where you want, when you want, and how you want, you are not free.

So, let’s reiterate. You need government permission to make your home, travel, earn a living, defend yourself, obtain medical treatment, and educate your children. You will never get government approval for many of those things in many places. You will never get government permission to entertain your mind and body in unapproved ways. At certain times, you cannot criticize those who decide who and what gets approved. You must sell your property to the government if they want it, and you must kill and die for them if they tell you to. And you have no choice but to pay for it all anyway, whether you like it or not.

And still, we think we are free."

 

[CannaBunkerMan]

Come to think of it, the only place that I really do feel free, is here, on this website. Thanks for the post, Frito.

 

[Jericho Mile]

Freedom...the most wrongly used word...in 'merica. An advertising slogan...nothing more. USA USA USA..chant time