http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2006/12/can_you_hear_me/
^ ABC NEWS article 2006.
^ just a little "blast from the past"
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U.S. Government spying on entire U.S., to nobody's surprise
- Thread starter frito bandito
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^ ABC NEWS article 2006.
^ just a little "blast from the past"
nah man, no novel, that's why it's so exciting, he's now the warrior for humanities right to privacy...
idiit said:
i think you are missing a big point about all this, it's not about Obama, or Bush. although they do have to be considered traitors to the constitution, those guys are just the top dog puppets that the real powers that be, which actually do the spying on everyone, use to pass out their orders.
the second Snowden explained, how he in his job, was in a position to intercept calls and emails etc from even the president, it was all clear. no wonder these traitors don't act in our best interests. they are all compromised. the NSA knows all their deepest darkest secrets, what ever they may be. imagine the power? apparently the newest tech can actually suck up all that info and build a profile on someone and then use that to actually predict their movements.
the thing is if you make it a red or blue thing, you ignore that it's an ongoing trend that took off in to top gear after 911. it doesn't matter which color is in charge, those types of programs are continued either way.
so it's a bit pointless, and it will make the discussion impossible to maintain there are still some members who identify with red or blue politics in one way or another and might feel attacked.
so it's a bit pointless, and it will make the discussion impossible to maintain there are still some members who identify with red or blue politics in one way or another and might feel attacked.
Its all purple when it comes to expanding fed power at the expense of liberty.
They all agree we need to be monitored,programmed and made to fall in line.
Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out, There may be dogs about
I've looked over Jordan, and I have seen
Things are not what they seem.
What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise! A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream.
They all agree we need to be monitored,programmed and made to fall in line.
Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out, There may be dogs about
I've looked over Jordan, and I have seen
Things are not what they seem.
What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise! A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream.
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From der Spiegel
Global Surveillance: The Public Must Fight for its Right to Privacy
The British-American Tempora surveillance program trains an all-seeing eye on the public.
The British-American surveillance program Tempora marks a historic turning point. Unnoticed by the public, intelligence agencies have pursued total surveillance. Governments have deliberately concealed from the public the extent to which we are being watched.
The term, "information superhighway" has always been insufficient to describe the Internet. In reality, the Web is a global communication space containing the private information of a large part of the population of every developed country. If someone were able to train an all-seeing eye onto the Internet, the blackmail potential would be almost limitless.
It is precisely this all-seeing eye that the British intelligence agency Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) and the American National Security Agency (NSA) have developed under the name Tempora. An appropriate real-world metaphor for the program might be something like this: In every room of every house and every apartment, cameras and microphones are installed, every letter is opened and copied, every telephone tapped. Everything that happens is recorded and can be accessed as needed.
It sounds preposterous, but it is frighteningly close to the reality that was unveiled by the Guardian on Friday. Together, the GCHQ and NSA monitor Internet traffic by tapping directly into the data stream sent through fiber-optic cables. They are able to copy and cache this data, to be sifted through later as needed.
Those behind this disgraceful program have not even bothered to deny what they are up to. The British spy agency has said it will not be commenting on the program -- but said that whatever they do is in the service of the fight against terrorism and subject to strict legal controls. The NSA has been making this same argument since the Prism program was unveiled earlier this month. What we're doing, they say, is for a good cause. It's all regulated, and we're only looking at the information collected when we deem it necessary.
But that's all just pretence.
Would the public agree to the total video surveillance of their private living space because it could possibly also help in the pursuit of terrorists? Would we be satisfied with the fact that we would only be observed if some unnamed intelligence analyst considered it necessary? Of course not. A government proposing such a program would be forced out of office -- and rightly so.
Where is the Outrage?
It therefore seems odd that the reactions in the Anglo-Saxon world have been so restrained. Sure, the Guardian, as well as the Washington Post, have reported in detail about the programs. Yet in the political sphere, it was mainly a few German politicians voicing their outrage.
And for good reason. The fact that the Americans and the British -- it is yet to be revealed who else participated -- have granted themselves this enormous power, without ever informing their own people, is a scandal of historic proportions. To the initiated, all the recent public debate about data retention, Internet privacy and the practices of Facebook and Google must have been downright amusing. The state, as it turns out, knew everything all along.
That was precisely the goal, according to the head of the NSA, Lieutenant General Keith Alexander. "Why can't we collect all the signals all the time?" he asked in an internal document acquired by the Guardian. "Sounds like a good summer project for Menwith," he continued, referring to a GCHQ facility at Menwith Hill in northern England.
Voters Must Defend Themselves
A different quote shows that intelligence personnel lied to the public following the first revelations of the existence of the program. European Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding said that, in meetings with US officials, she had been assured that data from Europeans had not been collected "in bulk." The surveillance of Europeans, they insisted to Reding, had been targeted and only undertaken in exceptional cases. That now appears to be untrue -- it's just that the mass acquisition of data in Europe is taken care of by GCHQ, rather than by the NSA.
The public revelation of these activities in the Guardian, thanks to the risky actions of former NSA worker Edward Snowden, marks a turning point. The next weeks and months will show whether democratic societies across the world are strong enough to take a stand against the unlimited, totalitarian ambitions of Western secret services -- or not.
The governments of the countries in question apparently did not have the necessary backbone. They knew full well that the kind of surveillance being undertaken lacked all democratic legitimacy. But they pursued the programs anyway, behind the backs of their electorates.
It is now up to voters to defend themselves. It is up to us, whose data has landed as by-catch in the nets of Tempora. We must force our own representatives to defend our freedoms.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...-prism-and-tempora-surveillance-a-907495.html
Global Surveillance: The Public Must Fight for its Right to Privacy
The British-American Tempora surveillance program trains an all-seeing eye on the public.
The British-American surveillance program Tempora marks a historic turning point. Unnoticed by the public, intelligence agencies have pursued total surveillance. Governments have deliberately concealed from the public the extent to which we are being watched.
The term, "information superhighway" has always been insufficient to describe the Internet. In reality, the Web is a global communication space containing the private information of a large part of the population of every developed country. If someone were able to train an all-seeing eye onto the Internet, the blackmail potential would be almost limitless.
It is precisely this all-seeing eye that the British intelligence agency Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) and the American National Security Agency (NSA) have developed under the name Tempora. An appropriate real-world metaphor for the program might be something like this: In every room of every house and every apartment, cameras and microphones are installed, every letter is opened and copied, every telephone tapped. Everything that happens is recorded and can be accessed as needed.
It sounds preposterous, but it is frighteningly close to the reality that was unveiled by the Guardian on Friday. Together, the GCHQ and NSA monitor Internet traffic by tapping directly into the data stream sent through fiber-optic cables. They are able to copy and cache this data, to be sifted through later as needed.
Those behind this disgraceful program have not even bothered to deny what they are up to. The British spy agency has said it will not be commenting on the program -- but said that whatever they do is in the service of the fight against terrorism and subject to strict legal controls. The NSA has been making this same argument since the Prism program was unveiled earlier this month. What we're doing, they say, is for a good cause. It's all regulated, and we're only looking at the information collected when we deem it necessary.
But that's all just pretence.
Would the public agree to the total video surveillance of their private living space because it could possibly also help in the pursuit of terrorists? Would we be satisfied with the fact that we would only be observed if some unnamed intelligence analyst considered it necessary? Of course not. A government proposing such a program would be forced out of office -- and rightly so.
Where is the Outrage?
It therefore seems odd that the reactions in the Anglo-Saxon world have been so restrained. Sure, the Guardian, as well as the Washington Post, have reported in detail about the programs. Yet in the political sphere, it was mainly a few German politicians voicing their outrage.
And for good reason. The fact that the Americans and the British -- it is yet to be revealed who else participated -- have granted themselves this enormous power, without ever informing their own people, is a scandal of historic proportions. To the initiated, all the recent public debate about data retention, Internet privacy and the practices of Facebook and Google must have been downright amusing. The state, as it turns out, knew everything all along.
That was precisely the goal, according to the head of the NSA, Lieutenant General Keith Alexander. "Why can't we collect all the signals all the time?" he asked in an internal document acquired by the Guardian. "Sounds like a good summer project for Menwith," he continued, referring to a GCHQ facility at Menwith Hill in northern England.
Voters Must Defend Themselves
A different quote shows that intelligence personnel lied to the public following the first revelations of the existence of the program. European Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding said that, in meetings with US officials, she had been assured that data from Europeans had not been collected "in bulk." The surveillance of Europeans, they insisted to Reding, had been targeted and only undertaken in exceptional cases. That now appears to be untrue -- it's just that the mass acquisition of data in Europe is taken care of by GCHQ, rather than by the NSA.
The public revelation of these activities in the Guardian, thanks to the risky actions of former NSA worker Edward Snowden, marks a turning point. The next weeks and months will show whether democratic societies across the world are strong enough to take a stand against the unlimited, totalitarian ambitions of Western secret services -- or not.
The governments of the countries in question apparently did not have the necessary backbone. They knew full well that the kind of surveillance being undertaken lacked all democratic legitimacy. But they pursued the programs anyway, behind the backs of their electorates.
It is now up to voters to defend themselves. It is up to us, whose data has landed as by-catch in the nets of Tempora. We must force our own representatives to defend our freedoms.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...-prism-and-tempora-surveillance-a-907495.html
It sounds so simple that it seems impossible
Try to imagine a world without FOX and MSNBC. What would we do without them? Do you think we could still manage to form our own opinions?
........ and would we realize that only punks leave negative reps without bothering to explain what it is they don't agree with
I think the author fails to understand the degree at which Anglo-Saxons have been indoctrinated to be subservient to the state.
If Big Brother says it's for your safety then we comply. A minority will find it outrageous and want revolution. It will bother some for a period of a week or so before they forget about it and probably over half won't even know about it because their too busy watching American Idol.
If DC said we need to take your first born child to protect you from terrorists they probably could here. The American people have been psychologically broken by the military industrial complex to accept anything the state demands.
We stand lifeless and soulless hugging Big Brother's pant's leg.
Not sure, but your opening line makes me want to order a pizza.
I laugh when ever someone says, did you hear that? on a phone. Did you hear that noise?
like it's a 1970s phone tap, and some agent is rustling on the line. Pretty sure it's entirely transparent and omnipresent.
like it's a 1970s phone tap, and some agent is rustling on the line. Pretty sure it's entirely transparent and omnipresent.
What gets me is that anyone is surprised at that kind of spying. I mean did anyone really believe that all the spying stopped or tapered off after the Cold War was declared over? They spy on us, us on them, and now apparently us on ourselves.
I think everyone needs to sit back and take a chill pill about whatever anybody says might be his location whether Ecuador via Cuba via Moscow or whatever. He is one smart dude. He knows there will be gov't sanctioned hit squads on his ass no matter where he went, no matter what he did for the rest of his life. He's gonna throw out as many false leads as he can. And I don't think anybody will or should ever know where he is.
As far as traitor, I saw 3 other fired management type NSA whistle blowers talk about him. One said he may have gone over the line divulging military secrets to foreign countries but another said was just no way he could have had the kind of access to the kind of information that could have really been so damaging to national security that the NSA didn't already know that foreign governments already had. So he really only went after the crime and corruption of an already hugely corrupt system anyway. Bottom line. I have to believe these guys. EDWARD Snowden is the MAN!
As far as traitor, I saw 3 other fired management type NSA whistle blowers talk about him. One said he may have gone over the line divulging military secrets to foreign countries but another said was just no way he could have had the kind of access to the kind of information that could have really been so damaging to national security that the NSA didn't already know that foreign governments already had. So he really only went after the crime and corruption of an already hugely corrupt system anyway. Bottom line. I have to believe these guys. EDWARD Snowden is the MAN!
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The problem is nobody wants to be the egg that gets broken, they don't want their patriotic blood to be the first to spill. Nor can I blame them. Not that any of this shit is right but when you look around you and see all the BS around you in this country, it gets harder and harder to stand proud. A proud country does not let it's infrastructure fall into ruin. A proud country does not lose it's standing on being educated and simultaneously gain in standing for being fat. To quote Dean Ferber from "Animal House" "Fat, Drunk and Stupid is now way to go through life, son". A proud country doesn't lose it's manufacturing/technological/medical research/Space exploration edge simply because it let our politicians spend us into debt while simultaneously funding the interest on that debt from the Social Security trust fund. Everyone is either struggling to get by or too busy looking at how they can get over on to worry about anything else. Yet amazingly we all are aware of Kim Fucking Kardashian and her baby. All our trusted institutions are failing, our sense of values are practically non existent and what value we do profess we tend to be our own worst examples of. Like Democracy, we think it's the greatest form of government on earth and even endorsed by God. We believe this so much that we go into other countries and try and convert them over. Yet out of the existing democratic societies Americans have some of the worst voter turn outs in history. That's why we have the turd of a government we have now.
That's why I keep saying we need to take control thru exercising our power to vote and then holding our representatives accountable for their promises. It's the only shot we got short of violent revolution but I think we should at least give an honest go of it first before opting for "Plan B".
Like I said, they on us, us on them, it's the same as it ever was. I guess the difference is that people are starting to believe it's more then just made in Hollywood?
By the time we get to the bottom of it we'll be electing a new stoog... I mean President anyway.
Well we should get ahold of ourselves a little bit here. Just imagine for a second you had all the spying capabilities being outlined here, that you could like Snowden, actually monitor people in real time from a desk. How many people do you think you could reasonably keep track of simultaneously and not miss a thing? Now based on that how many people would you need to employ to keep track of approximately 350 Million people? Once you determine that then multiple that by 3 to cover 24 hours a day or maybe by 4 to factor in what you would need to do it 24/7/365. You're talking a literal army of people all needing a salary, the high tech equipment and connections to make their desk to monitor from and a fortress big enough to house it all. I'm talking a force bigger then all our military and intelligence organizations and law enforcement officers combined. The reality is they have everything in place but they're still a long ways from exploiting it the way people are starting to fear.
Not only that but drugs are illegal because they're bad for you but feel free to smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol and take pain pills all you want just so long as you do it our way.
with regard's to controlled opposition, the majority of the time the alinsky/Delphi technique is used to ,eliminate or subdue anyone with real opinions.
Exposing the Delphi Technique in Public Meetings.mov
[YOUTUBEIF]-zpA1althjo[/YOUTUBEIF]
this happens at these public meetings as well as national media. we are being played for fools.thinkabout it ,the public opinion consists of only 2 options and they are both controled by FOX and CNN.both of those receive their material from the AP/ reuters.
when the talking heads from both start agreeing snowden is a trader and disagree on everything else,you have to wonder why all of the sudden? since the news have not brought anything up except the governemnts own failures and direct abrogation of the law.
Glenn Greenwald: Decision from FISA court says NSA is bulk collecting phone
[YOUTUBEIF]Ok2wShm2mqA[/YOUTUBEIF]
Greenwald: DC Journalists Are ‘Servants’ To Government Power
Glenn Greenwald DESTROYS David Gregory. With Newsmen Like You.....
[YOUTUBEIF]sGjZDYc-skI[/YOUTUBEIF]
Exposing the Delphi Technique in Public Meetings.mov
[YOUTUBEIF]-zpA1althjo[/YOUTUBEIF]
this happens at these public meetings as well as national media. we are being played for fools.thinkabout it ,the public opinion consists of only 2 options and they are both controled by FOX and CNN.both of those receive their material from the AP/ reuters.
when the talking heads from both start agreeing snowden is a trader and disagree on everything else,you have to wonder why all of the sudden? since the news have not brought anything up except the governemnts own failures and direct abrogation of the law.
Glenn Greenwald: Decision from FISA court says NSA is bulk collecting phone
[YOUTUBEIF]Ok2wShm2mqA[/YOUTUBEIF]
Greenwald: DC Journalists Are ‘Servants’ To Government Power
Glenn Greenwald DESTROYS David Gregory. With Newsmen Like You.....
[YOUTUBEIF]sGjZDYc-skI[/YOUTUBEIF]
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