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Trump thread part 2 (Or anything else we want to talk about that's ridiculous in politics today)

nepalnt21

FRRRRRResh!
Veteran
i used to wanna convert my car into an electric, but i can barely pour a bowl of cereal...



Jesus you guys are really active in here, two posts in the time it took me to type the sentence above…
phone's in my hand, i'm out today with free time lol sorry, also anxiety central up in here cause i'm cutting back my weed consumption and so i'm allllll politics today i guess
 

Captain Red Eye

Well-known member
it's still EXTREMELY silly to say the nazis are bad BECAUSE they have a state.
Nazis are bad because they had a State which violated individual consent, but they also were super bad because they did shitty things beyond the basic shitty things all states do.

Your ineffective rebuttal relies on holding opposing beliefs at once. It's a naked assertion without evidence or consistent argument to prove your assertion.

If you violated thousands or millions of individuals consent and also decided those people MUST pay you
money for your ideas, and are subjects of your system whether they've consented or not, even if those people didn't share your idea, would you be bad or good?

You'd be bad, we both know that. So would anyone else that did that.

It is extremely silly to assign an action as bad if you or I do it and then also state the very same action is somehow "not bad" if other special people do it.

Your flawed belief relies on thinking that a bad action isn't determined by the circumstances of the action itself, it's determined by WHO the people are that are doing the action. That is the evidence you've been indoctrinated as a subject of a "cult of authority".

That would be like saying rape is okay, as long as you have a special rape license.
Side note - That actually happened when lords imposed Prima Nocta on their serfs.

The nature of a bad action which is bad unto itself, doesn't change depending on who the perpetrator is.

You are basically applying "collateral damage" type word smithing and allowing your brain to be commandeered by people you've been taught to obey. Millions of people do that, but a thing that is logically incorrect and false doesn't become true by virtue of the number of people that have been led to believe it's true. Millions of children believe Santa Claus is real....but he's not.

You won't be able to refute what is written above, You might come back with a weak "nuh uh", but that's not really a convincing argument. That's a psychological driven response and not a rationale or an effective argument. It's a bad argument and would be bad even if special people made it.
 

nepalnt21

FRRRRRResh!
Veteran
Nazis are bad because they had a State which violated individual consent, but they also were super bad because they did shitty things beyond the basic shitty things all states do.
thank you for that

Your ineffective rebuttal relies on holding opposing beliefs at once. It's a naked assertion without evidence or consistent argument to prove your assertion.

If you violated thousands or millions of individuals consent and also decided those people MUST pay you
money for your ideas, and are subjects of your system whether they've consented or not, even if those people didn't share your idea, would you be bad or good?

You'd be bad, we both know that. So would anyone else that did that.

It is extremely silly to assign an action as bad if you or I do it and then also state the very same action is somehow "not bad" if other special people do it.

Your flawed belief relies on thinking that a bad action isn't determined by the circumstances of the action itself, it's determined by WHO the people are that are doing the action. That is the evidence you've been indoctrinated as a subject of a "cult of authority".

That would be like saying rape is okay, as long as you have a special rape license.
Side note - That actually happened when lords imposed Prima Nocta on their serfs.

The nature of a bad action which is bad unto itself, doesn't change depending on who the perpetrator is.

You are basically applying "collateral damage" type word smithing and allowing your brain to be commandeered by people you've been taught to obey. Millions of people do that, but a thing that is logically incorrect and false doesn't become true by virtue of the number of people that have been led to believe it's true. Millions of children believe Santa Claus is real....but he's not.

You won't be able to refute what is written above, You might come back with a weak "nuh uh", but that's not really a convincing argument. That's a psychological driven response and not a rationale or an effective argument. It's a bad argument and would be bad even if special people made it.
i remain unconvinced that we stupid selfish humans are capable of a stateless society... maybe in a thousand years, if we don't destroy ourselves?
 

MangueBeat

Active member
it might not be, even some maga kultists have broken the chains... rare, but it happens.

i think usually it's when something finally obviously negatively affects them or someone they personally care about
Exactly, but sometimes not even then, not even the victims themselves understand. I see this a lot in my country, poor people defending the end of public health, the end of public education, clearly anti-poor measures. The politician financed by industry scraps the public service and he himself sells the speech that "it doesn't work", and then comes the speech of privatization, of the same companies that financed his campaign.
 

MangueBeat

Active member
There's more though.
The so-called left wing uses the same operational means as the so-called right wing.

Left and right don't fight over the idea that it's okay to force their preferences on disinterested people.

They just fight over how to spend the loot and which ways to control others lives. Speaking of shameful.
This kind of speech sounds a bit shallow and simplistic to me, Yeti, with all due respect, but what point are you trying to get at with this speech? With this "respect my freedom" talk you can defend any absurdity, it's like wanting to cross a red light and thinking it's wrong to be fined for it, claiming it's against your freedom, you don't live alone in the world, you weren't born alone, you live in society and every society has rules, the question is what rules these will be, because there will always be rules.

Besides, I don't know of a system that forces people to do things they don't like more than capitalism, especially if you're poor.
 

Captain Red Eye

Well-known member
thank you for that


i remain unconvinced that we stupid selfish humans are capable of a stateless society... maybe in a thousand years, if we don't destroy ourselves?

If humans are so selfish and stupid why would you embrace a system that gives crooks access to power over you? Are Politicians not selfish humans ?

You do realize democide and wars caused by governments has far higher death numbers than free lance thugs right?
 

Captain Red Eye

Well-known member
This kind of speech sounds a bit shallow and simplistic to me, Yeti, with all due respect, but what point are you trying to get at with this speech? With this "respect my freedom" talk you can defend any absurdity, it's like wanting to cross a red light and thinking it's wrong to be fined for it, claiming it's against your freedom, you don't live alone in the world, you weren't born alone, you live in society and every society has rules, the question is what rules these will be, because there will always be rules.

Besides, I don't know of a system that forces people to do things they don't like more than capitalism, especially if you're poor.

What is absurd is the idea that people can be protected by an entity that assumes their consent even when it's not actually given. That's literally impossible. If you don't consent to something and the other party declares you ARE in a relationship with them...or else, how is that person being protected?

The best kind of society would be one where people that assume consent when none is given are not held in high regard no?

Also, society and a coercion-based government are not the same thing. Any society that embraces coercion is a society that needs to change.

My point is, if a person is peaceful and disinterested and their consent is violated they are not the person needing to explain themself.

I do live in this world, like billions of other individuals and I don't assume their consent or force them to obey me, if they are otherwise peaceful and disinterested in my ideas. Should there be fewer people like that or more people like that?

I am not arguing that everybody has to be anything but respectful to others. Why can't some people be "voluntary commies" wherein they are commies only with willing participants etc. ?
 
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Captain Red Eye

Well-known member
it's like wanting to cross a red light and thinking it's wrong to be fined for it, claiming it's against your freedom,

Rules of the road set by those who own a given road are not the same as rulers that go beyond making rules about that which they rightfully own and intervene into nearly every aspect of your life.

I can obey a persons rules about how to use their road without needing a set of overlords to tell me what I can put in my body or a host of other orders that subordinate me to them for practically anything and everything else.

Rulers are different than rules.

Nobody has the right to rule over others, everyone has the right to rule over themselves and make rules about their justly acquired property.
 

Cannavore

Well-known member
Veteran
This kind of speech sounds a bit shallow and simplistic to me, Yeti, with all due respect, but what point are you trying to get at with this speech? With this "respect my freedom" talk you can defend any absurdity, it's like wanting to cross a red light and thinking it's wrong to be fined for it, claiming it's against your freedom, you don't live alone in the world, you weren't born alone, you live in society and every society has rules, the question is what rules these will be, because there will always be rules.

Besides, I don't know of a system that forces people to do things they don't like more than capitalism, especially if you're poor.
just block him lol
 
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