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Trump thread part 2 (Or anything else we want to talk about that's ridiculous in politics today)

RickLafleur

Well-known member
According to an interview with Cohen, Chump is liable for city, state and capitol gains taxes that could total 40% on property he sells in NY. Add to that the fact that these properties are mortgaged and ol' Chump doesn't walk away with jack after a sale. Add to that the fact that these would be distress sales from a seller with a shady business background and the proceeds dip even lower. The word is that over 40 insurance companies have declined on posting a $500M bond.

BINO = BILLIONAIRE IN NAME ONLY
👍
 

RickLafleur

Well-known member
If trump comes up with the money for the bond, it will be from someone who knows they won’t get it back.

I can think of only one person who would be willing to give a half a billion to trump knowing they won’t get it back. Putin.

Half a billion for Ukraine is a smoking hot deal.
 

Zeez

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ICMag Donor
I find it kind of annoying that mr billionaire can't come up with the cash for an appeal and now there is allot of whining about why he needs a special deal. He's been screwing the people of NY for decades and probably screwed them out of more than the $500M. I hope LJ tells him to STFU and pay up you guilty SOB.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
I find it kind of annoying that mr billionaire can't come up with the cash for an appeal and now there is allot of whining about why he needs a special deal. He's been screwing the people of NY for decades and probably screwed them out of more than the $500M. I hope LJ tells him to STFU and pay up you guilty SOB.
I'm kind of thinking that he might actually have the money on hand or at ;east most of it (with the rest coming from donations) I base that on a couple of things, first off he was quoted a few times about have around 400 Million cash. Also I heard a report this week where Don Jr. was talking about some new construction on one of his golf courses that cost around $15 Million. So I suspect all this whining about not having the money and all the efforts to find some other way to cover the bond is just him not wanting to give up his cash because it will wipe out his cash reserves which will severely hinder his campaign and/or ability to do thinks liike fuel his plane or cover Melania's hair care needs. Ao he's trying all these other ways to get someone else to cover things but if push comes to shove he'll come up with the bond at the last second rather then let his properties be seized and sold off. Either way, as I said before, it couldn't be happening to a more deserving guy. Frankly I hope I'm right because as entertaining as it would be to see him lose his properties it would be more entertaining to see him actually be broke. I keep imaagining him standing on a corner of 5th Avenue with a sign saying "Need money for jet fuel"
 

Zeez

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ICMag Donor
That's pretty optimistic, I'm surprised. I don't think he can get the money.

Chump is already guilty. Raising the $450M for a bond would only give him the right to appeal. For a successful appeal he would need some points that negate the conviction. Especially with his history, the Weiselberg testimony, Cohen testimony, and the massive fraud evidence uncovered, Chump is a long shot for winning an appeal and being able to repay this loan. So, it's simple, no money - no appeal - no special deal because you think you're special. You have been found guilty and this is the penalty - pay up. (and time is running out)
 

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
I find it kind of annoying that mr billionaire can't come up with the cash for an appeal and now there is allot of whining about why he needs a special deal. He's been screwing the people of NY for decades and probably screwed them out of more than the $500M. I hope LJ tells him to STFU and pay up you guilty SOB.
i don't think he EVER had a billion dollars worth of anything except in his head. everything that has his name on it drops in value daily, is losing money (looking at YOU, golf courses) or banks actually hold title, not Chump. if we could buy him for what he's worth, and sell him for what he THINKS he's worth, we could all retire with our own island in the (pick your ocean/sea) for weekend getaways...:good:
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
That's pretty optimistic, I'm surprised. I don't think he can get the money.

Chump is already guilty. Raising the $450M for a bond would only give him the right to appeal. For a successful appeal he would need some points that negate the conviction. Especially with his history, the Weiselberg testimony, Cohen testimony, and the massive fraud evidence uncovered, Chump is a long shot for winning an appeal and being able to repay this loan. So, it's simple, no money - no appeal - no special deal because you think you're special. You have been found guilty and this is the penalty - pay up. (and time is running out)
Actually you don't need the bond to file an appeal, in fact Trump has already filed the appeal. All the bond does is that it stops anyone from being able to start seizing assets. So if Trump doesn't come up with the bond by Monday then AG James will start seizing properties and bank accounts, she's already filed the necessary paperwork in the applicable jurisdictions (except maybe Florida). So she'll be able to start first thing Monday morning. Now let's assume that's what happens, as soon as she seizes properties she'll start to move on selling them with the focus being on doing so quickly rather then getting the most money, which means she'll get less then the fair market value. Once sold the first thing that will happen is any other liens already on the buildings will be paid and then she'll get whatever is left Shhe'll repeat this process with as many buildings as it takes to raise the full bond amount. Now like I said, Trump will still be able to appeal. If he wins then thhe money AG James raised and any unsold properties if any (not likely) will go back to Trump but the buildings sold to raise money for the bond will remain lost to him because they are now owned by whoever purchased them and they will be under no obligation to sell them back to Trump at the same price they paid. They could, if Trump really wanted the property back bad enough, sell the property back to him but it will almost certainly be at a price for which the owner makes a profit, how much will be up to the new owner. Now if Trump loses the appeal then that's it, game over, the bond money will go to pay off the judgement to whoever it was awarded to, in this case I believe that will be the City of New York. Additionally if AG James was unable to raise the full amount of the bond then Trump will still owe the difference. If there happens to still be any buildings not yet sold they'll remain in AG James control and still eligable to be sold until the remaining amount is raised or paid back by Trump. It's being reported that most of Trumps properties are heavily encumbered by mortgages and loans which means there won't be much left to go towards the bond and so it's not likely that there will be much left unsold unless there is just nobody interested in them. Again though, they'll still remain in AG Jame's control until the full settlement + interest has been paid.

The purpose for this bond system which is something unique to New York is to make sure that whoever the judgement would go to, gets paid once the appeal process is over and the person filing the appeal has lost. So really all the bond does is prevent any action being taken against the defendent's assets. If Trump does manage to get a bond and still loses the appeal then whoever gave him the bond will now be able to seize and sell his assets to repay the bond. So really it's not a smart move to go ahead with an appeal unless you're pretty sure that you will win or the lose you incur is outweighed by some other percieved benefit from the time it would delay things. Now I agree that the chances of Trump winning the appeal is very slim because the AG made a pretty solid case against Trump and all the arguements made in the lower court (which are the same arguements he would use in the appeal) were resoundingly defeated. In this case it's not something he can get before the Supreme court where he has judges that might rule in his favor. However just because we believe that Trump has no chance of winning the appeal doesn't mean that Trump doesn't really believe he can win. His biggest problem in court in these civil cases has been due to a fundemental misunderstanding of the laws he broke and/or the rules under which the court operates. So Trump may legitimately see his appeal odds of being better then how you or I see them but it's a pretty safe bet that he's wrong.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
i don't think he EVER had a billion dollars worth of anything except in his head. everything that has his name on it drops in value daily, is losing money (looking at YOU, golf courses) or banks actually hold title, not Chump. if we could buy him for what he's worth, and sell him for what he THINKS he's worth, we could all retire with our own island in the (pick your ocean/sea) for weekend getaways...:good:
That's a pretty fair analysis. Back in 2015 Forbes had him valued at around $2-3 Billion which of course was not enough to get him on their Elite Fortune 500 list. In their 2024 list Trump would need to be worth more then $5.9 Billion just to get the number 500 spot. Unfortunately for Trump Forbes currently has him at $2.6 Billion which is probably fairly accurate since that's about what they had him at in 2015. Alas that puts him at the 1287 spot. That is based almost entirely on his properties which as you noted are almost all heavily mortgaged. From what I've seen reported he only has one property that is entirely his, which is Mar-A-Lardo but that's only worth between $18-27 Million currently. Unfortunately because Trump has it zoned as a social club for tax purposes it makes it very difficult to sell. It is also difficult to sell because it's considered a historic landmark and as such there are all sorts of restrictions on what can be done with the property.

Oddly enough much of the fraud charges he faced in this trial was because his ego wanted him to be in the top 500 and that's why he had his CFO and others manipulate the values of his properties as much as he also did that to secure better loans. Still even then it still only put him at around $4-5 Billion which was just barely enough to make the top 500 and he didn't stay there very long. You may recall back when he first ran for President he would often state his worth at around $10 Billion but at least 50% of that was just his opinion of what his brand was worth and that was never recognized by Forbes.
 

buzzmobile

Well-known member
Veteran
A New York judge on Friday handed Donald J. Trump a crushing defeat in his civil fraud case, finding the former president liable for conspiring to manipulate his net worth and ordering him to pay a penalty of nearly $355 million plus interest that could wipe out his entire stockpile of cash.

Trump cannot be found guilty in a civil case. He is liable.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
Trump cannot be found guilty in a civil case. He is liable.
Okay, I apologize for using the incorrect term but I'm confident everyone knew what I meant. In my defense though I do keep mixing it up between civil and criminal because it's so close to the NY fraud case for the Stormy Daniels hush money payments. By similar I mean they're both in New York and both involve fraud.
 

buzzmobile

Well-known member
Veteran
Okay, I apologize for using the incorrect term but I'm confident everyone knew what I meant. In my defense though I do keep mixing it up between civil and criminal because it's so close to the NY fraud case for the Stormy Daniels hush money payments. By similar I mean they're both in New York and both involve fraud.
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Zeez

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ICMag Donor
Actually you don't need the bond to file an appeal, in fact Trump has already filed the appeal.

I probably oversimplified that part of my statement. It's a two edged sword. Preventing seizure enables ownership or value to be transferred elsewhere as the appeal takes place. When the penalty was levied Chump owed the money immediately and has 30 days to pay. With seizure temporarily averted all kinds of things can happen to reposition the value of those assets. The bond secures the debt. If the appeal is successful then the value and state of the assets remains unchanged, whereas if seizure had taken place the properties are sold.
 

HempKat

Just A Simple Old Dirt Farmer
Veteran
I probably oversimplified that part of my statement. It's a two edged sword. Preventing seizure enables ownership or value to be transferred elsewhere as the appeal takes place. When the penalty was levied Chump owed the money immediately and has 30 days to pay. With seizure temporarily averted all kinds of things can happen to reposition the value of those assets. The bond secures the debt. If the appeal is successful then the value and state of the assets remains unchanged, whereas if seizure had taken place the properties are sold.
Nope you're still not getting it quite right. From the day the judgement was placed Trump had 30 days to come up with the bond or pay the debt. During that same time he could have filed for the appeal at any point. Trump chose to do it right away because he was sure he was going to appeal and back then he probably felt pretty confident that he could raise the money for the bond some how. AG James has to wait until Monday before she can start seizing anything. At any point from the day the judgment was made against Trump there were other things she was able to do to prepare for seizure. First as a matter of procedure she had to file the judgement with the courts in the jurisdictions that they exist. Since his properties are scattered about she had to file those judgements with several different courts. I think the properties in Manhatten were kind of automatic since that's where the trial took place, so no need to fle the judgement there since the Manhatten courts already had the judgement on file from the trial she did go ahead earlier this week and file in the other jurisdictions except Florida (at the time of when I saw that report) although I'm sure by Monday she'lll have filed in the appropriate Florida courts for Mar-A-Lardo and then for the golf course he owns in Florida (I think it's called Doral). She was also able to place liens as soon as she had filed the judgements and in a report I heard this morning she did that already on several properties. That's allowed to protect against the possibility of Trump trying to liquidate those assets before the due date to prevent from having those assets seized. I imagine by the end of the day she'll have placed liens on the Florida properties as well. All of that is just preperation though but come Monday morning if Trump hasn't paid his bond somehow she'll be able to immediately start seizing all those assets because of that preperation.

Now when the judgement initially was handed down several reports stated the process as if the bonds had to be paid to file the appeal as if it was a prerequisite but that was inaccurate. They reported it that way because that's usually how most people do it, they pay or secure the bond and then file the appeal. Trump didn't do it that way though because he was trying his best to find a way for someone else to pay the bond so that it didn't come out of his pocket. All the bond does is make sure nothing is taken from the person the judgement is against until the appeal is completed. If Trump wina the appeal then the bond goes back to the defendent (Trump) or the agency that the defendent secured the bond thru. All the bond does is make sure the money is held in a escrow account ready to pay the entity the judgement was awarded to if the appeal is lost so that they're guarenteed to get their award as soon as possible under the law.

Given the way Trump has been seeming to panic and the ever increasing amount of whining this past week it's looking more like I was wrong about Trump actually having the cash and he was just waiting until the last second. Unless he's able to raise that much money over the weekend from some fund raising event or some billionaire(s) gives him the money this weekend, it's looking pretty definite that Trump will own fewer properties after Monday whether he wins or loses the appeal.
 

Zeez

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ICMag Donor
Nope you're still not getting it quite right. From the day the judgement was placed Trump had 30 days to come up with the bond or pay the debt. During that same time he could have filed for the appeal at any point. Trump chose to do it right away because he was sure he was going to appeal and back then he probably felt pretty confident that he could raise the money for the bond some how. AG James has to wait until Monday before she can start seizing anything. At any point from the day the judgment was made against Trump there were other things she was able to do to prepare for seizure. First as a matter of procedure she had to file the judgement with the courts in the jurisdictions that they exist. Since his properties are scattered about she had to file those judgements with several different courts. I think the properties in Manhatten were kind of automatic since that's where the trial took place, so no need to fle the judgement there since the Manhatten courts already had the judgement on file from the trial she did go ahead earlier this week and file in the other jurisdictions except Florida (at the time of when I saw that report) although I'm sure by Monday she'lll have filed in the appropriate Florida courts for Mar-A-Lardo and then for the golf course he owns in Florida (I think it's called Doral). She was also able to place liens as soon as she had filed the judgements and in a report I heard this morning she did that already on several properties. That's allowed to protect against the possibility of Trump trying to liquidate those assets before the due date to prevent from having those assets seized. I imagine by the end of the day she'll have placed liens on the Florida properties as well. All of that is just preperation though but come Monday morning if Trump hasn't paid his bond somehow she'll be able to immediately start seizing all those assets because of that preperation.

Now when the judgement initially was handed down several reports stated the process as if the bonds had to be paid to file the appeal as if it was a prerequisite but that was inaccurate. They reported it that way because that's usually how most people do it, they pay or secure the bond and then file the appeal. Trump didn't do it that way though because he was trying his best to find a way for someone else to pay the bond so that it didn't come out of his pocket. All the bond does is make sure nothing is taken from the person the judgement is against until the appeal is completed. If Trump wina the appeal then the bond goes back to the defendent (Trump) or the agency that the defendent secured the bond thru. All the bond does is make sure the money is held in a escrow account ready to pay the entity the judgement was awarded to if the appeal is lost so that they're guarenteed to get their award as soon as possible under the law.

Given the way Trump has been seeming to panic and the ever increasing amount of whining this past week it's looking more like I was wrong about Trump actually having the cash and he was just waiting until the last second. Unless he's able to raise that much money over the weekend from some fund raising event or some billionaire(s) gives him the money this weekend, it's looking pretty definite that Trump will own fewer properties after Monday whether he wins or loses the appeal.
The stories were different and have evolved. Perhaps this is part of the where we are at. Just today I heard it mentioned that the 30 days was not obligatory and this was a courtesy from LJ due to the large amount.

Did you se my post on the USSC with Senator Whitehouse?
 

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