True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

[141ironlung]

Following along from Reddit.

The GLG works for its regular members and the overall Cannabis community first and foremost. Being an affiliated member is a privilege, one that isn't taken lightly. If I find any reason to believe TT is lying here, not only will they be booted from the Gang, but they will be publicly shamed for both lying and being the first company kicked out. This will be broadcast on all of my platforms, including GoodLifeGang.tech, Future4200.com, @Future4200 on IG, etc.

If I find out that the OP is actually an employee of one of TTs competitors, especially if that competitor is also a GLG affiliate, that competitor will be roasted at a much higher degree.

Also, my first round of testing is costing well over $1000. After speaking with Gray Wolf on the phone yesterday, and him relaying that it was going to cost him similar amounts, I have serious reservations about the validity of the OPs claims.

Are you saying you would act more harshly toward the OP than True Terpenes if he is a competitor, even if his claims are true and there are no terpenes?

I noticed you wrote about logical fallacies and made fun of some people for misusing them. So I took a few seconds and looked up logical fallacies on Wikipedia. It sounds like you have used red herring, appeal to authority, appeal to accomplishment, appeal to the stone, argument from ignorance, argument from incredulity, argument from repetition, ad hominem.

 

[Future4200]

Following along from Reddit.


Are you saying you would act more harshly toward the OP than True Terpenes if he is a competitor, even if his claims are true and there are no terpenes?

If his claims are true, and he is in the GLG, and is purposely hiding the fact that he is actually one of their competitors, they both are getting kicked out.

If his claims are false, and it's just some guy, then I have no more dogs in the fight, nor time to care.

If his claims are false, and it's a competitor, he will get the same treatment as TT would if they are caught lying.


Feel free to point out any specific fallacy you see. Im not perfect and I'm sure I used a bunch of them. They are commonly used in debate, and the onerous lay with the counter arguer to identify them

 

[CannaRed]

Members of the GLG are consumers as well as business people marketing to consumers. Those are my customers. My fiduciary responsibility to my customers is such that I make sure the affiliated companies are legit.

That's what I'm doing here. Vetting one of our affiliates.

This has never been hidden, in fact is blaringly public knowledge.

You know how I got my start in the legit "cannabis industry"? Working directly under Gray Wolf at PharmGold. He is a prime example of how someone can be both a "trusted member of the cannabis culture" as well as a businessman.

All of my business models are based on the Skunkpharm open source model and the idea that if you build up your community (the people around you) they will in turn bring you up with them. The GLG empowers its members to collectively bargain against corporate entities to leverage better prices.

The forum is a 100% free place for cannabis community members to improve their extraction and processing skills, something ICMag isn't focused on other than this single category.

Half the people in this thread are mad because TT didn't respond in a timely manner, the other half are mad that I'm responding to everyone as timely as possible.

We aren't mad that you are responding. We are mad, that somehow, it falls on you to respond.

TT could have headed this off if they hired someone like you long ago.
However, depending on how these tests all turn out, I may be glad that they didn't. We may have never looked deeper into their alleged shadiness if they had good P.R.

 

[Ringodoggie]

This thread has turned into an argument of Everyone vs Future. Which is perfect for True Terps.

Words of a puppet have no meaning, and more importantly no liability. So, Future does all the talking until the thread derails and then TT can not be held responsible for anything in the thread.


I would like to see True Terps responding to all this instead of Future.

But, I'm sure that's not going to happen. I practiced law long enough to know when to tell my guilty client to keep his mouth shut and let me do the talking. Exactly what I believe is happening here.






.

 

[dank.frank]

So, if Viscosity is discovered to have acute toxicity when used as directed, are you going to continue to support them, as long as they essentially include a "surgeon general's warning"?



dank.Frank

 

[G.O. Joe]

You missed the point. Which is that everything is toxic at some level of concentration. I said that the posoin is in the dose, and used other simple examples to help you understand that simple truth.

I never said you shouldn't concern yourself with additional toxic influences.

I did say I don't care if other people choose to consume poison though, as long as they understand what they are consuming

Do you think manufacturers should be free to sell whatever they want until sued out of existence? How can we know the poison when they won't say, won't do safety testing, won't test to find out what substances are actually formed when heated and how this affects animals. Is there microbial testing? Pesticide testing of their terpenes? What terpene is GRAS for vaping?

I used to do cosmetics contract manufacturing - cosmetics are highly regulated and tested even though they go on the outside. What evidence is there that this substance alone or in the final product isn't another asbestos when inhaled? You don't want to know and they don't want to know, and they don't want anyone else to know either.

 

[Future4200]

We aren't mad that you are responding. We are mad, that somehow, it falls on you to respond.

TT could have headed this off if they hired someone like you long ago.
However, depending on how these tests all turn out, I may be glad that they didn't. We may have never looked deeper into their alleged shadiness if they had good P.R.

If it was my company, I would have been responding too. I agree.

They didn't hire me, they don't pay me for anything, but yes the could have handled this better imo

 

[Future4200]

So, if Viscosity is discovered to have acute toxicity when used as directed, are you going to continue to support them, as long as they essentially include a "surgeon general's warning"?



dank.Frank

If that's found, and they disregard it, or do not properly label it as such, then no I will not allow them to remain in the GLG

 

[Future4200]

Do you think manufacturers should be free to sell whatever they want until sued out of existence? How can we know the poison when they won't say, won't do safety testing, won't test to find out what substances are actually formed when heated and how this affects animals. Is there microbial testing? Pesticide testing of their terpenes? What terpene is GRAS for vaping?

I used to do cosmetics contract manufacturing - cosmetics are highly regulated and tested even though they go on the outside. What evidence is there that this substance alone or in the final product isn't another asbestos when inhaled? You don't want to know and they don't want to know, and they don't want anyone else to know either.

Should alcohol be allowed to be sold, even though we know its poison?

I don't care if people consume alcohol even though we know its toxic. I consume a little red wine here and there, knowing that alcohol is toxic. There was a time when we weren't allowed to make that personal choice in this country, which is borderline unconstitutional imo.

So, should companies be allowed to sell Terpenes for smoking even though we don't understand the safety? If no, should we not allow companies to sell Terpene rich cannabis extracts for the same reason?

I know one thing for sure, I'm not the guy to tell people what they can or can not consume.

However, I do sit in a unique position to pressure companies into taking care of their customers, which again is my goal here

 

[star crash]

^^^why do U sound like such a shyster?

 

[Sertaiz]

hey future how about you stop talking for them or about them if you would the bias is painful. we can wait for the boss and the fax

 

[Sertaiz]

...

 

[AgentPothead]

It's just more whataboutism, and to be honest, it's getting old. The underlying issue is still trust, Future. You should take a cue from TT and stop posting until the results are in.

 

[slant.i]

Do you think manufacturers should be free to sell whatever they want until sued out of existence? How can we know the poison when they won't say, won't do safety testing, won't test to find out what substances are actually formed when heated and how this affects animals. Is there microbial testing? Pesticide testing of their terpenes? What terpene is GRAS for vaping?

I used to do cosmetics contract manufacturing - cosmetics are highly regulated and tested even though they go on the outside. What evidence is there that this substance alone or in the final product isn't another asbestos when inhaled? You don't want to know and they don't want to know, and they don't want anyone else to know either.

It will be interesting to see if the cannabis industry takes route of the cosmetic industry or the tobacco industry.

I agree that people should be allowed to make their own decisions, but I also don't think companies should be allowed to profit off of false or deceptive claims. When companies are making unverified claims about things like the entourage effect while also pedaling terpenes, that seems like a problem to me.

If it turned out to be proven that terpenes didn't play a role beyond smell and taste, I think there will be a terpless extract movement. Some won't care, but when given the choice many will choose a less harmful option.

It'd seem like the same logic would apply to the rest of TT's products and other similar brands as well, that people should be made aware of both safe(if any) application and potential risks. Then, if people still decide to take those risks by using the product, it is truly their decision and not something they have been duped into.

 

[Future4200]

^^^why do U sound like such a shyster?

Because I believe people should have the freedom of choice and that prohibition doesn't work?

 

[Weird]

^^^why do U sound like such a shyster?

I have left a number of traditional, legal and regulated industries because the lure of wealth combined with the legal insulation afforded by incorporation give people the ability to lower the bar in the name of income with little repercussions.


This was consciously my last stop. I told myself I wouldn't leave this industry when it because fraught with corruption and greed but rather be vocal and educate people to the very phenomenon.



One thing most people don't understand is that in EVERY scenario what I extol is a model that allows all people to thrive and reach full potential in lieu of a imbalanced model that enriches so
me people at the detriment of others.


Old school business models including disruption for the sole sake of creating new opportunities for the same of profiteering (disruptive business models aren't all bad but it needs to be tempered which is beyond this conversation) .



My argument in the eagle20 thread which holds true here as well is that the margins and profits are such that they afford doing business in such a way that the dividends paid by applied integrity and due diligence pay greater dividends in the end.


Every argument about breeding, growing and even humanitarian ethics has the same endgame with the same dynamics.


Having living many years in the corporate world of other industries truth is even the most insufferable assholes in this industry aren't as bad as those outside.



Bad day in zion is still better than a good day in babylon

 

[Weird]

Because I believe people should have the freedom of choice and that prohibition doesn't work?

true freedom of choice can't happen unless the seller represents what they are selling with complete disclosure



the business you represent is how old?


how many years of education do the inventors of that proprietary blend have in regards to chemistry, human physiology and the science of chemical interactions between vaporized chemicals and mucus membrane and lung absorption?


Sounds to me like this company was born from future 4200.com threads by a stoner who wanted in on the old rush and while they may even have good intent they haven't proven education in either business or the product they sell to assure that they aren't compromising people's health our of ignorance or to avoid loss of revenue in a business investment.



The world's biggest industries such as the pharma industry and big tobacco have been using the corporate veil to prey on others for the benefit of profit for decades to the point of gross ecological and humanitarian damages.


There is no excuse to perpetuate that gross and unnecessarily mindset because the lure of money has turned everyone into an affiliate with dollar signs in their eyes.


Being a piece of shit is a choice, and it isn't much more work to simply give a fuck and do the right thing and still get paid.

 

[Weird]

I would only want to do business with someone whose own life was transformed by cannabis in such a way that the foundation of their motivation is to share that dynamic with others, legal business being a vehicle for making that possible, profit being a secondary necessary means to keep it perpetuated


I wonder how long until there is a board that can certify participants to maintaining a bar such as that as iso 9001 works for respective industries

 

[Cvh]

Graywolf is the only one I trust into this entire debate.
His testing results will be decisive.

Personally, I see three possible outcomes:

1) The Op 'Extract Ninja' is lying. He deliberatly added in Mineral Oil into the bottles before sending it in for testing.

2) True Terpenes did indeed add Mineral Oil or a derivative into their products. Or they have a very serious Quality Control issue.

3) The terpenes used by True Terpenes are on the high end of the terpene spectrum, leaning against the Mineral Oil. And because of insufficient resolution onto the tests done by the Op his lab, this shows as a blurry blob covering also the Mineral Oil id. Giving a false positive testresult for Mineral Oil.

Personally I think Graywolf's findings is going to be that either the Op is lying or that the testing done by the Op his labs lacked resolution. And gave this way a false positive for Mineral Oil.

I don't think that True Terpenes added deliberatly Mineral Oil or a derivative. Why? Because a person can't possibly be that incredible stupid to sell dangerous chemicals as a natural product into the drugsproducing communtiy. That won't be going to be good for his and/or family their health...

@Future4200, we have no beef (or looking for it) with you or your Future/GLG members. As you said yourself before you are into a niche into the Cannabis Community. Which doesn't compete with ICMag.
The Op of this thread isn't an ICMag member. (Or he uses an Alt-Account). But if it shows he did indeed temper with the results, then I think you need to look into your Future/GLG member base. Very likely he might be a competitor and one of your fellow members using ICMag reach to damage True Terpenes reputation.

 

[Weird]

See that doesn't work for me.


If the product is proprietary and there is no disclosure of the constituents they should be testing it for accuracy before it leaves the facility especially if the process exposes that blend to contamination.


The fact that this isn't a part of the process as simply because it is voluntary doesn't mean that in a more mature market it wouldn't be and from a perspective of business integrity a desired metric in assure delivery of a "superior" product.

My anecdotal to something is rotten in Denmark would be did the tainted samples work as promised and seem to work the same as "non tainted" samples, if they even have that on record (testing of product after manufacture and distribution).


Consumer health should not pay the price for learning curve so dont use that as an excuse.


tl:dr if they don't care to test a proprietary chemical solution for integrity before it goes to market how valuable is their products "value add" and what does it say about their integrity regarding consumer health.