We've used both Everclear and butane for cancer med extraction. Typically, we extract with butane and winterize with Everclear.
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Treating Cancer with Concentrates Thread
- Thread starter LostTribe
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We've used both Everclear and butane for cancer med extraction. Typically, we extract with butane and winterize with Everclear.
We just recently started short path distilling oil, and I'm not aware of any clinical trials with patients, so have to say I don't know.
I do know the Absolute has done some amazing things, but hasn't been the great panacea, infallibly curing all ills, because not everyone survived.
A good question though, and worthy of a professional answer, so what I did, was e-mailed that question to Dr Kate, our pharmacist brain trust, to get her read, as well as Dr Melamede, whom may have already done that experimentation.
A good question for certain please report back your findings when you get time. Cheers
Pastelero
Active member
different questions on this:
in my opinion, 1000mg orally per day will decrease CB1 receptor density rapidly. Consequentially you will show a higher tolerance, but also decrease the over all amount of endocannbinoids and phytocannbinoids in your system, which you want to avoid!
What about absorption capacity of CB1 receptors? How much can they uptake?
I was talking to israeli researchers, they said it does not make sense to flood your receptors with pytocannabinoids because receptors can´t absorb all of it anyway and you will decrease your receptor density!
Respect your receptors!
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You seem to theorize that 1000mg is well beyond receptor capacity, but then ask "how much can they uptake?"
Perhaps 1000mg of active cannabinoids is fairly close to the "saturation" point. I agree though, and most trends in nature show us that over-use of resources effects having to put more energy in for the same output. Brain cells alike, I'd say.
I have quite the tolerance, so not the best candidate, but eating 1 g of an absolute daily is right around the point at which I still "feel something" every time. At times, sure, it's taken 2000mg to keep me asleep for 3-4 hrs...but usually, if I eat a gram, regardless of tolerance, I still retain SOME effects, and am able to eat/sleep at will (main reasons why I medicate). At 2g daily, I can legitimately say I get stoned every time (though I dab up anyways!)
Dr Melamede's point is that the effects of the gram a day dosage is to flood the receptors, so that they are all pulled into action.
Dr Robert Melamede's background and contribution to cannabis science is a matter of public record, so I will let him defend his position based on his own clinical research. We simply sponsored him at a seminar and I listened with rapt attention.
Certainly to remain on heavy dosage long term would have those diminishing effects, but if we are discussing the same gram a day for 90 days to address a tumor, the prima facie evidence is that it is effective against at least some cancerous tumors.
That ostensibly closes the argument that it is ineffective, but does leave open the debate as to whether it can be more effective.
I'm not a doctor, so will leave that argument to the professionals, but plan to continue with the gram a day that has proven effective for our own patients, until it can be proven that if we reduce the dosage of our life saving medication, it will save even more lives.
Certainly we would ask the buy in of the patient up front as well, since it is their lives in the balance.
Whoa there! Are you talking about 70-90% oil? I made some for a cancer patient that tested at 70% THC and another patient that had a high tolerance ate a 150 mg pill and thought she was dead, not dying but dead. And she dabs...
Here is Dr Bob's response to my question of whether clear and Absolute were equally effective as a cancer med.
"I Graywolf how are you? I prefer the dark dirty oil's to Billy 75-85% THC. People like the clear ones for dabs. It seems to me you got to be losing some of the goodies with the clear ones
drbob"
"I Graywolf how are you? I prefer the dark dirty oil's to Billy 75-85% THC. People like the clear ones for dabs. It seems to me you got to be losing some of the goodies with the clear ones
drbob"
i would love to add to what GW is saying.
THC is colorless 100% clear......
so,, the more clear, or translucent the extract is, the higher the THC content.
and Dr Bob's lost goodies are responsible for the Entourage Effect
http://www.beyondthc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/EntourageEffect.pdf
the herbalist call it a Whole Plant Extract because it contains all three of the families of herbal therapeutics.
Terpenoids. flavanoids and cannabinoids.
you get the biggest yields from buds
Whole Plant Extracts are not about leaf or stem or roots,,, it's about Terpenoids. Flavanoids and Cannabinoids.
THC is colorless 100% clear......
so,, the more clear, or translucent the extract is, the higher the THC content.
and Dr Bob's lost goodies are responsible for the Entourage Effect
http://www.beyondthc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/EntourageEffect.pdf
the herbalist call it a Whole Plant Extract because it contains all three of the families of herbal therapeutics.
Terpenoids. flavanoids and cannabinoids.
you get the biggest yields from buds
Whole Plant Extracts are not about leaf or stem or roots,,, it's about Terpenoids. Flavanoids and Cannabinoids.
That is exactly what I was thinking.
Does a winterization process remove some of the good things?
You lose the waxes which are ostensibly inert inactive ingredients, plus monoterpenes, which all have their own medical properties, and as noted, contribute to the entourage effect.
You would get the same effect extracting with alcohol, because the loss of course occurs during alcohol removal.
The question then becomes one of perspective, changing the question to whether it removes enough to make the medication less effective, and we have routinely winterized since we've been making Holy Anointing Oil and Holy Shit, both which have their following and record of success, so it doesn't make it ineffective.
Except for the fan leaves, stems, and roots, we extract guts, feathers, and all that is left, all together.
That leaves open the question of just what the optimum levels are, and what would be best, which I leave to the professionals!
Haha. Again, I'm not your best candidate, but I do understand the effects of dosing. Very low tolerance users (the kind that enjoy a 50mg vape pen over a week) usually seem to enjoy eating anywhere from 10mg-80mg max recreationally, and get pretty faded.
Radic said:
LostTribe said:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1211/jpp.59.12.0005/abstract
Very interesting findings on the effects of cayophellene on anti-cancerous agents (humelene, a terpene, and paclitaxel, a drug used during or post-chemotherapy)....but clearly, terpenes work well with one another, and these two are pretty prevalent in many cannabis strains. You could easily imagine that an even fuller terpenes profile in conjunction with cannabinoids could be very medicinal (probably moreso orally ingested, but smoked/vaped as well).
With some reasonably doable distillation techniques, some or all of those terpenes can be extracted or even saved from a winterization, then later reintroduced.
Case in point on your end though, as a friend with a low tolerance willingly ate a 250mg edible today. He went from "I think I'm higher than I've ever been" after 30-40 minutes, to almost collapsing while filling a glass of water. Luckily I heard him calling, and carried him to lay down on a bed. His legs pretty much locked. Within 30 seconds of getting blood back into his head he sat up, drank some water, and was at least able to laugh at the experience - knowing he's gotta ride this one out for a few hours. He looks comfortably asleep, and has been for the last hour.
The risk involved in a cannabis overdose are nothing compared to the potential benefits. Responsibility and maturity are important, as not to be a jackass and try to operate a vehicle when you're "higher than I've ever fucking been before" ...
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What dictates the degradation of those terps?
..and I think I know a guy... I don't know if he/they are allowed to sell research for research. I'll look into it lol.
What are your credentials?
Roji
Active member
Loss of highly aromatic monoterpenes via heat and vacuum during extraction.
My creds? 9th grade general science lol.
Different extracts have different medicinal uses.
THC is said to be the main player, so if you want to kill cancer, in stage 4, High THC extracts may rule..
if you want to smoke the extract, then we love the flavor, taste and smells.
yes you can add the terpenoids and flavonoids back to a high THC extract. and so fortify the medicinal qualities you seek.
i will give an example here,, lets say we wanna treat depression..
Medicinal Cannabis Therapy to treat Depression ,,
Simply add Essential oils to high THC hash oil
Essential oils to treat Depression is well documented. Please take some time to read all the medicinal qualities of essential oils at aromatherapy web sites.
next...
Ask the sufferer to make a list of all the essential oils that they feel would help ease their symptoms.
eg. Lavender essential oil is Anti-anxiety, Anti-bacterial, Anti-convulsive, Anti-depressant, Anti-insomnia. because ..LINALOOL, is the terpene in Lavender with all those qualities..
when you have made your list, go to a herb shop and let the sufferer smell all the Essential oils on your list,,
eg..
Citrus, Lavender, Camphor, Tea Tree, Rose, Bergamot Cypress, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Sage, basil, cedarwood, clary sage, frankincense, geranium, grapefruit, lemon, jasmine, myrrh, neroli, sandalwood, spruce, orange, and ylang ylang.
now smell them all one at a time, and choose the favorite 3 …
next....
Negative Reaction Test.
The next step is to test the chosen three essential oils for any negative reaction by putting 1 drop of each on the inside of wrist of the sufferer, wait 5 min,, checking for any sign of any negative reaction.
eg burning or itchy, red skin color or swelling,. etc.. if any reaction is observed -->wash off
immediately,,with warm water and soap.. and do not use any of the essential oils that cause a negative reaction...
ok next.....
mix 1 drop of each of the three chosen Essential oils with every 1mil/gram of hash oil.
you can experiment with this mix to get the best most effective antidepressant ,, what works best for the sufferer and body type,,,
THC is said to be the main player, so if you want to kill cancer, in stage 4, High THC extracts may rule..
if you want to smoke the extract, then we love the flavor, taste and smells.
yes you can add the terpenoids and flavonoids back to a high THC extract. and so fortify the medicinal qualities you seek.
i will give an example here,, lets say we wanna treat depression..
Medicinal Cannabis Therapy to treat Depression ,,
Simply add Essential oils to high THC hash oil
Essential oils to treat Depression is well documented. Please take some time to read all the medicinal qualities of essential oils at aromatherapy web sites.
next...
Ask the sufferer to make a list of all the essential oils that they feel would help ease their symptoms.
eg. Lavender essential oil is Anti-anxiety, Anti-bacterial, Anti-convulsive, Anti-depressant, Anti-insomnia. because ..LINALOOL, is the terpene in Lavender with all those qualities..
when you have made your list, go to a herb shop and let the sufferer smell all the Essential oils on your list,,
eg..
Citrus, Lavender, Camphor, Tea Tree, Rose, Bergamot Cypress, Lemongrass, Rosemary, Sage, basil, cedarwood, clary sage, frankincense, geranium, grapefruit, lemon, jasmine, myrrh, neroli, sandalwood, spruce, orange, and ylang ylang.
now smell them all one at a time, and choose the favorite 3 …
next....
Negative Reaction Test.
The next step is to test the chosen three essential oils for any negative reaction by putting 1 drop of each on the inside of wrist of the sufferer, wait 5 min,, checking for any sign of any negative reaction.
eg burning or itchy, red skin color or swelling,. etc.. if any reaction is observed -->wash off
immediately,,with warm water and soap.. and do not use any of the essential oils that cause a negative reaction...
ok next.....
mix 1 drop of each of the three chosen Essential oils with every 1mil/gram of hash oil.
you can experiment with this mix to get the best most effective antidepressant ,, what works best for the sufferer and body type,,,
Hey, me too!! I even got to the 11th grade Chem as well. Let's get some rats.
Do any saved terps degrade/change color/change flavor while in storage in solution?
