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top of the heap to third world status in one generation

Gry

Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
Am bothered by the fact that we went to war against Nazis, and the Ukraine seems
to have the properties of alchemy where we are simply to forget the atrocities of Nazis
and we are now to not only embrace them, but to think well of financing them to the
opposition of the country which saved us from Nazis. A moral fuck up of epic proportions.
We have several US Presidents in a row telling Germany not to go with Russian gas,
and to buy our LNG, when we don't have an export point for it.
For years we fought wars over access to oil, are we now to go to war over distribution
of the crap ? What the fuck did we ever do to deserve that ?
As I understand it, Russian Gas was the better deal for Europe, but who is worried about
costs, when there are future profits to be fought over.
They speak to us of free markets, but that has never ever been how things have worked.
They way things work is that the customer will by the more cost effective product, which in
this case, would be Russian gas.
Screw the best deal, we want Europe to buy our energy products, not the Russian product.
Cost be damned. Which is why we have had the past 3 us presidents speak as one when it
comes to this issue.
The vast majority of conflicts have been over oil and what has changed ?
With 14 biolabs all over Ukraine, funded through Eco Health Alliance,
this is the sort of thing we should all be aware of.
If we had a decent press as opposed to a compliant media we would.
The intel outfits of Europe are not real thrilled with the thought of what could happen
if one of those locations is hit.
No one is looking at this winter and thinking it will be a walk in the park.
Frankly I do not see any problem with letting Europe stay warm with Russian Gas,
and then US can make profits once the LNG facilities are built and ready.

Imagine there is considerable a price difference between the cost of Russian gas and US LPG.

Obama and Trump, and Biden spoke with a single voice on the subject, and I assure you
the next one will as well, irrespective of which party they come from.
What we are left with is a country with crap for values that are unacceptable to anyone
other than oil companies and intel outfits.
I have no grudge with anyone living. We played with a deck that had been shorted and stacked
before any one of us were even born. My concern is for children of the future, I would like to
think that we left in no worse shape than we found it but that seems like quite a stretch.
 
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Gry

Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
The advantages offered to the members of the Bush family were never ever options for the
average guy who had a problem with the draft. Leaving the premise of your post hollow.
 
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Gry

Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
h.h. said:
Leave.
Click to expand...
I obviously hit quite a sore point with you.
You share with me a bit more than you had intended ?
If my presence leaves you so uncomfortable, perhaps you might want
to give some thought to moving on yourself.
 
Gry

Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
Microbeman said:
Sounds like 50 percent bullshit
Click to expand...
It was very real and it was based on the concept of tearing a person down to rebuild the personality.
They destroyed many people with this, turning them into nonfunctioning beings many of whom ended
up being institutionalized for the balance of their lives.
Allen Dulles was a brilliant man, but I believe that he had something wrong with him that got worse as he
grew older. His moral fiber seemed to erode. Always an unfaithful man, but that seemed to
get much worse as he grew older. He was known to do things such as sending his operatives to far
away locations so that he could conduct affairs with their spouses. He had an infamous long running affair with the wife of the publisher of the Washington post. He deteriorated to the point that he was humping any female he could talk into it.
Allen had a son who was a more than decent man. He was a decorated Marine who had fought
honorably in North Korea. He called his pop out over the aberrant behavior.
His father had him rendered and shipped up to McGill where he was "modified".
He was never the same after that, and he was cared for by his his family in New Mexico until his recent death due to Covid .
I have spent a lot of time looking into this, and Allen Dulles has rewritten more damned history than
anyone else that I have ever been aware of. Both he and his brother John Foster Dulles were trained from
birth to be very successful operatives for their family and class, and they were each absolutely excellent at
what they did. They were each present at the Treaty of Versailles where they were reps for Brown
Brothers Herriman . Allen had more influence with the press than anyone ever had, which the agency has added to immensely to this very day.
The man was able to effectively rewrite a good deal of history.
He also made one hell of a lot of history himself, with which he would take the liberty of describing
in his own terms. As an example, he was with the OSS and there had been four men officers who were tasked with writing the history of the outfit. They seemed to have a bad habit of dying shortly after being
tasked with the writing. Then came Allen who completed the task by himself. Men who were with the
unit did not recognize much of of what he described, but speaking to the press was not something that those who worked in intel did so much.
I would urge you to grab a copy the Devils' Chessboard, which describes the family. The book was written after having spent a good deal of time speaking with the surviving members of the family.
The author did an admirable job of describing a brilliant and very complex, but also very troubled individual and his family.

I have with the passage of time, come to view both Allen and John as dual agents who approached everything they did with a set of competing agendas. They were of such a different era and class.
Much of what the agency was involved with was of a nature such that people would not be inclined
to think that it could actually be true. The truth at times being more horrendous than many could
ever imagine.
 
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Microbeman

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Gry said:
It was very real and it was based on the concept of tearing a person down to rebuild the personality.
They destroyed many people with this, turning them into nonfunctioning beings many of whom ended
up being institutionalized for the balance of their lives.
Allen Dulles was a brilliant man, but I believe that he had something wrong with him that got worse as he
grew older. His moral fiber seemed to erode. Always an unfaithful man, but that seemed to
get much worse as he grew older. He was known to do things such as sending his operatives to far
away locations so that he could conduct affairs with their spouses. He had an infamous long running affair with the wife of the publisher of the Washington post. It deteriorated to the point that he was humping any female he could talk into it.
Allen had a son who was a more than decent man. He was a decorated Marine who had fought
honorably in North Korea. He called his pop out over his behavior.
His father had him rendered and shipped up to McGill where he too was "modified".
He was never the same after that, and he was cared for by his his family in New Mexico until his recent death due to Covid .
I have spent a lot of time looking into this, and Allen Dulles has rewritten more damned history than
anyone else that I have ever been aware of. Both he and his brother John Foster Dulles were trained from
birth to be very successful operatives for their family and class, and they were each absolutely excellent at
what they did. They were each present at the Treaty of Versailles where they were reps for Brown
Brothers Herriman . Allen had more influence with the press than anyone ever had, which the agency has added to immensely to this very day.
The man was able to effectively rewrite a good deal of history.
He also made one hell of a lot of history himself, that he would take the liberty of describing
in his own terms. As an example, he was with the OSS and there had been four men officers who were tasked with writing the history of the outfit. They seemed to have a bad habit of dying shortly after being
tasked with the writing. Then came Allen who completed the task by himself. Men who were with the
unit did not recognize much of of what he described, but speaking to the press was not something that those who worked in intel did so much.
I would urge you to grab a copy the Devils' Chessboard, which describes the family. The book was written after having spent a good deal of time speaking with the surviving members of the family.
The author did an admirable job of describing a brilliant and very complex, but also very troubled individual and his family.

I have with the passage of time, come to view both Allen and John as dual agents who approached everything they did with a set of competing agendas. They are products of a vastly different era
and class than our own.
Much of what the agency was involved with was of a nature such that people would not be inclined
to think that it could actually be true. The truth at times being more horrendous than many could
ever imagine.
Click to expand...
You should know that I know all about that program but Janis Joplin and CIA programmers like Kris Kristofferson - Give me a break! and Pierre Trudeau - haha. 50% bullshit like I said. Perhaps in your words, this belongs in Hempy's thread.
 
Microbeman

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Microbeman said:
You should know that I know all about that program but Janis Joplin and CIA programmers like Kris Kristofferson - Give me a break! and Pierre Trudeau - haha. 50% bullshit like I said. Perhaps in your words, this belongs in Hempy's thread.
Click to expand...
Really @Gry I just spent some minutes reading the comments after the article. The author is certainly cracked. I think you will agree if you read through.
 
Gry

Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
Please point out where you see anything at as being fabricated. The man had his own son rendered and he was left very damaged a result of that. The primary difference between Hempy and myself is that he is chasing windmills, were as I have an interest in a very specific portion of our history. I do understand we may
at times deal with similar subject matter, I would like to think that we handle it somewhat differently.
I make an effort at being circumspect in my claims, and refrain from making claims absent of documentation.
Speaking of which, it would be appropriate to add this to the previous post.

Oral History Interview - Korean War Allen Dulles

The ALPL Oral History Program is dedicated to preserving the stories and memories of Illinois‘s citizens.
presidentlincoln.illinois.gov presidentlincoln.illinois.gov

The point of including it is to back the claim the son of Allen Dulles was not so damaged from his service injury - it was the rendering and what took place as a result of it which left him in such a damaged condition.
I will grant you the nature of this material is very bizarre and quite out there, but I do make efforts to see it
is honestly and accurately described. If you see any deficiencies I would be most grateful if you would point
them out to me.

Thank you for sharing your awareness with the Joplin/Kristofferson/ agency ties.
Was the content sourced through "Weird Scenes inside the Canyon" by McGowan ?
 
Gry

Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
Microbeman said:
Really @Gry I just spent some minutes reading the comments after the article. The author is certainly cracked. I think you will agree if you read through.
Click to expand...
When one is dealing with material of this nature, one can anticipate that it will be real odd.
What I am getting from you, is that you do not care for it. Hell man, who in their right mind
could find this crap enjoyable, this is some most intense material put together by some strange
people. There are times that I have to step away from this sort material for quite a while, so I
can certainly relate to your perspective.
I hope that you will find the interview with Allen Jr to be of interest, it showed a bright and
alert man who while he had been through a great deal, was still in pretty damned good shape
over all. That changed a great deal post McGill. I hope that you find this material more relevant
than comments on the work of Ann Diamond.
 
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Gry

Gry

Well-known member
Veteran
Interview with Allen Dulles # VRK-A-L-2007-032 November 28, 2007


A taste at what one will find in within :
Dulles:" Well, I remember there were some very unusual things. I think the basis of it, I have just recently started to learn, was that Allen Welsh Dulles was a German spy."

It is one thing when I describe the Dulles Brothers as dual agents, it is entirely another when his
own son makes this similar comment.
 
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Microbeman

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Gry said:
When one is dealing with material of this nature, one can anticipate that it will be real odd.
What I am getting from you, is that you do not care for it. Hell man, who in their right mind
could find this crap enjoyable, this is some most intense material put together by some strange
people. There are times that I have to step away from this sort material for quite a while, so I
can certainly relate to your perspective.
I hope that you will find the interview with Allen Jr to be of interest, it showed a bright and
alert man who while he had been through a great deal, was still in pretty damned good shape
over all. That changed a great deal post McGill. I hope that you find this material more relevant
than comments on the work of Ann Diamond.
Click to expand...
Not caring for it, is not the case. It is quite false. I know the program was true and occurred but this person is telling mistruths stated to try selling her book and who knows what else. It is her comments in the comments section which are outlandish. One only need read it to comprehend this.
 
armedoldhippy

armedoldhippy

Well-known member
Veteran
Gry said:
www.reuters.com

Russia names air force general to lead its forces in Ukraine

Russia's Defence Ministry on Saturday named Air Force General Sergei Surovikin as the overall commander of Russian forces fighting in Ukraine, Moscow's third senior military appointment in the space of a week.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
This man is something else.
Click to expand...
i don't envy him. being "put in charge" of something is normally a set-up for you to be blamed for its failure.
 
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