Tony's silver thiosulfate notes

[urbs]

Glyoxlic acid is not easy to find.....

 

[zif]

Research papers on both galore.

Read some papers where nitrous blocks ethylene.
The thinking is apply to reverse then stop applications when you want pods to ripen.
My thought there is once you stop application ethylene is no longer blocked immediately. Whereas I'm finding very limited options to reverse sts affects.

Long reply’s toast. Ouch. Here’s the capsule summary.

Neat re:nitrous. It also looks like it’s a safe alternative to colchicine for inducing chromosome doubling. Wasn’t expecting that! Might be a fly in the ripening ointment?

Have you looked into the jasmonates? I keep running into promising-seeming applications (e.g., breaking seed dormancy), and it looks like they’re important relatively late in the normal hormonal process coordinating pollen maturation and dehiscence. Of course, it seems like every plant hormone is on that pathway, so....

 

[VerdantGreen]

they all look like full reversals Tony, so i imagine it's strong enough...
great that you did all the maths - thanks



VG

 

[Tom Hill]

I reckon plants will react differently and that complicates maths. I had a hard time under glass moisture germinated pollen before it could be put to use

 

[Tonygreen]

Here is the bigger one in 3 gal, 10 days in flower 4 days post 3mM spray. No real change in stretch or obvious damage. Did get a weird looking senescence starting on a big older leaf, lower left if ya zoom in. Could be just she-he being hungry because I'm a cheap prick and or lazy ha. This one will get two sprays so one final shot at 3mM Monday. Couple hairs. No obvious signs of balls.

Cut in the saucer is the fresh rooted clone. Due for it's only spray at 3mM Monday.

 

[Tonygreen]

And so it ain't just a bunch of boring shit here is a shot of the resin!

Sure would be nice to pull this off. Might be coming in hot.
I been thinking I could tumble some dry pods in my rock tumbler in a pinch. Hopefully we get a dust storm in a few weeks so I can relax ha.

 

[TnTLabs]

Here is the bigger one in 3 gal, 10 days in flower 4 days post 3mM spray. No real change in stretch or obvious damage. Did get a weird looking senescence starting on a big older leaf, lower left if ya zoom in. Could be just she-he being hungry because I'm a cheap prick and or lazy ha. This one will get two sprays so one final shot at 3mM Monday. Couple hairs. No obvious signs of balls.

Cut in the saucer is the fresh rooted clone. Due for it's only spray at 3mM Monday.

View Image

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i never noticed any big changes in growth and looks, apart from the sacks and nanners... did i get it right, all are the same clone, you just got the dilution strength variable going for now??

 

[Tonygreen]

Same clone. For now all same spray strength 3mM.
First test is 3 sprays across 10 days ending day 14, 2 sprays 7 days apart ending day 14 and one spray day 14.

 

[power puff]

Very interesting Tony!!

My bets are on the 2 applications 7 days apart.
Would be cool to see what 2 applications 14 days apart would do compared to your three...

I was planning to do your experiment next summer outdoors in light dep.

 

[Tonygreen]

If the one shot at day 14 does it we know the rest are superfluous. Just a guess but I think it goes. Few weeks to see.

 

[Tonygreen]

Can you use dry ice extraction for pollen??

 

[power puff]

If the one shot at day 14 does it we know the rest are superfluous. Just a guess but I think it goes. Few weeks to see.

Makes sense....

 

[power puff]

Can you use dry ice extraction for pollen??

What would be the benefit over just drying out the buds?

 

[zif]

What would be the benefit over just drying out the buds?

If pollen is unharmed by the freeze - which seems likely - then it might yield a higher percentage of viable pollen.

Drying down male flowers might take several days, and the pollen's going to be stewing away in the locally humid environment of the flower.

Dry ice *might* let you simply freeze the male flowers, then shake off the frozen pollen grains. It seems like there's a fair chance they'd also be frozen in place on the anthers, especially for already reluctant/sticky pollen, though.

I tried a container stuffed with fresh desiccant (i.e., ~0% rh) to rapidly dry reluctant-to-shed reversed flowers. It worked overnight, but the pollen yield was infinitesimal.

The same reversed plant fully seeded a female in that run, while only opening a handful of male flowers. I never saw any evidence of active pollen shedding.

 

[Tonygreen]

Interesting. Hope I get some good seed.
Hardest part is waiting for sure ha!
I've got silica to dry with if need be.
Since they want to charge 800 bucks for a dryer motor and plastic tub for a pollen tumbler... ha.
I got my screens, vibrators and rock tumbler on standby. Lol

My thought was dry ice the dried flowers not fresh. I think sticky pollen is not enough ethylene to ripen. Cant wait to see what we get.

Monday the final sprays come for this round...

 

[CannaRed]

I have a question. I know I've heard you guys say that we can reverse a single branch.
Would it be possible to try a different schedule on each branch? Spray one branch at -7, 1, 7,
Another at day 1, 7, 14, another at day 7 and 14.
I don't know that it would be possible, but I'm just throwing it out there. It could be too much of a hormonal overload for the plant as a whole, but if each branch can act independently it could work.
I may try this. The plant I want to reverse has DOZENS of branches after topping many times.

 

[Tonygreen]

I have a question. I know I've heard you guys say that we can reverse a single branch.
Would it be possible to try a different schedule on each branch? Spray one branch at -7, 1, 7,
Another at day 1, 7, 14, another at day 7 and 14.
I don't know that it would be possible, but I'm just throwing it out there. It could be too much of a hormonal overload for the plant as a whole, but if each branch can act independently it could work.
I may try this. The plant I want to reverse has DOZENS of branches after topping many times.

No clue. For the sake of some sort of consistency for people to try to.pull data from I'm trying whole clones for now.

Tyco had a story about spraying a branch and the whole plant exploded. Unsure of the strain. Maybe an easy to flip more sativa type? Or had natural tendencies. Not sure but the possibility was there I guess therefore sticking with whole plants.
I was gonna try a weaker spray on my big seed momma just in case but decided against it in case that happened ha.

If you try keep us posted!

 

[Cvh]

I have a question. I know I've heard you guys say that we can reverse a single branch.
Would it be possible to try a different schedule on each branch? Spray one branch at -7, 1, 7,
Another at day 1, 7, 14, another at day 7 and 14.
I don't know that it would be possible, but I'm just throwing it out there. It could be too much of a hormonal overload for the plant as a whole, but if each branch can act independently it could work.
I may try this. The plant I want to reverse has DOZENS of branches after topping many times.

I have done something similar. You can and when done carefully I had different results/reactions on each branch. Just be sure to protect the other branches from overspraying. It generates a mist otherwise that affects other plant parts. Best is then to use a dripper or a syringe to apply very carefully some droplets.

What happened to Tycho where the entire plant 'turned' is because IIRC that he might have accidentally sprayed the entire plant because of the mist his spray bottle generated. I think I talked about him about that in the past. But maybe he can better answer it himself if the other branches got or didn't got affected by overspray mist.

Just try it my friend. Always fun to experiment a bit. If you do, please post your experiences, it might be very useful information to some other people.

For the record, my experimentation showed that STS works locally. See the pictures and notes I posted into Douglas.Curtis his thread. I have reversed certain parts on a plant and other parts not. I have used different spraying (and droplets) schedules on the same plants with different localised results. I even made seeds on the same plant on parts that weren't sprayed.

My clearest example of different results is were I partly reversed a single bud site with a single droplet of 1:9 STS. If you compare that picture to my other pictures you'll clearly see the differences. The single droplet bud only partly turned male while the other heavier sprayed budsites turned completely male.

 

[Tonygreen]

The small throat spray bottle makes a fine mist I found. The name brand one has a very nice fine spray.

 

[TnTLabs]

from what i have seen you do need the repeat spray 14 days apart, for the plant to fully produce mature male flowers with the weaker solution i have been working with, the one you are using.. you might be ok and could possibly get away with one application..
timing will be key though and at day 14 maybe a bit too late...
id propose day 7/8, before stretch.. just some ideas