Tony's silver thiosulfate notes

[TnTLabs]

looking forward to some interesting data, great idea and thanks for the efforts Tony!!
i can contribute with some of my "limited" experience.
The people i know that use the sigma aldrich solution recipe as is say they get the best results.. they have many years of seed production under their belt!
I havent tried any other than the 1:6 dilution with great results.
For me biggest difference in pollen production i have noticed, is from plants sprayed till excess, wetting the bottom and the top of the leaves and branches and all, contary to just regular wetting the top of the plant

 

[Tom Hill]

This was excellent real dirt under the fingernails stuff - respect

 

[Tonygreen]

Thanks for this thread Tony.

Never dared to go undiluted, but the article is very interesting.
If plants are not showing visible stress while beeing hit with 3mM and show male parts it seems they can take it.

Question I ask myself is if strong solutions or undiluted sts could affect pollen.
What about more herms showing up in the filial generation after making and growing out the seeds. Like epigenetic changes caused by to strong stock solution?

I am just thinking loud....

I could be wrong but I feel like sts promotes male flowers to form but then acts to prevent ripening later thus poor pollen drops. As it wears off the male sacs begin to ripen.

Maybe throwing a bag over a developed but "green" male branch with a shot of ethylene or nitrous oxide could promote ripening of the branch or just cause pods to fall off ha. Just ideas atm.

I'm going to stick with 3mM. 3 sprays, 2 and 1 this round for data sake. Final sprays day 14.

Timing for reversal of flowers then wearing off in prime pollen time is a common theme in forum stories.

I already think a spray between 1.5mM and 2 mM may be enough for full reversal with no pistils. Day 10 may be an ideal stop date for last spray to achieve good pollen drop between day 28 to 35. Just rambling ideas I'll observe data and see if it backs up the idea. The deformed pollen could be from too much silver, it also looks like some of those pics have flowers that dont want to mature or are mutated. 2mM is slight dilution from forum recipe. People may be more inclined to try straight stock than such a seemingly minor dilution. Maybe the answer is between 1 and 2mM...

I've got some whippets, I may get to test the branch ripening idea this run. I'll expand on that idea once the time comes.

 

[CannaRed]

Maybe optic Foliar Transport would help? Or whatever their magic ingredient surfactant/absorber is.

 

[Tonygreen]

I found some papers with a bacteria that eats thiosulfates. Unable to source or I'd try that.
On those big full male branches if you could remove or deactivate the silver I bet they'd ripen right but.

Best forum successes with pollen bombs seem to be those who stopped spraying earlier with a much stronger dilution rate than 1:9 but much less than this 3mM documentation.

Country mon mentioned seeing supreme male flower formations with no or sterile pollen from strong or over sprays.

Also FWIW sativas/leaners seem to flip much easier and at lighter strengths than indicas.

I've got some pure sativa, I will see if they can stand 3mM. My bet is they will show damage but I could be surprised. I'm surprised mine haven't. What a leap of faith spraying that was ha

 

[Tom Hill]

"I've got some whippets" haha epic shit that right there lol

 

[Tonygreen]

We tied clear bags off on a 14 day growing tip.
Injected nitrous into the bag.
Took a big hit. We repeated the process daily for a week before removing the bags.

Be a fun peer review lololo

 

[Tonygreen]

Its 2020. What do you know about whippet tech hahaha

Might be a more precise tool for reversal and a real blast lol

 

[Tonygreen]

We found the best results with repeat applications daily lol

 

[Tom Hill]

I am old school whippit tech still means that junkie horndog nurse slams you with novacaine and saves the nitrous for me haha

 

[Cvh]

Maybe throwing a bag over a developed but "green" male branch with a shot of ethylene or nitrous oxide could promote ripening of the branch or just cause pods to fall off ha. Just ideas atm.

Maybe you already know this but ethephon is used to transform male plants to female.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=99597

 

[power puff]

I could be wrong but I feel like sts promotes male flowers to form but then acts to prevent ripening later thus poor pollen drops. As it wears off the male sacs begin to ripen.

Tony that makes sense.
Maybe ur up to something.

Personally I think two applications 14 apart should be enough.
I work with 1:9 most of the times but tried bit stronger as well.

Most seeds I got was when I accidentally had a heater pointing at the container of a reversed plant full of male parts. The soil dried out completely in one night and all pollen dropped from the wilted plant at once. Must have been somewhere at week 5 after inducing flowering of it I guess...

Never replicated that "experiment"

 

[Tonygreen]

Might give it a shot if it comes to it.

I've also got my hash screens and my wife's vibrator. Figure I can dry pods with silica and try manual dehisence ha.

 

[Tonygreen]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-63642-z

Apparently the pear people have issues of their own with ripening after ethylene blocking.

This should be easy to try. Shot in the dark but increased internal ethylene levels...

 

[zif]

Is there a separate role for nitrous oxide in pollen shedding, or are you after nitric oxide?

The latter is way less fun.

 

[urbs]

1-MCP is used in industry to block ethylene in ripening of fruit and spoilage of flowers. It is used as a gas and has no residue. Produced when combined with KOH solution as a gas to be used in a closed space. Seems like 1-MCP could work like ethephon but without residue.

 

[Tonygreen]

Check out that pear paper. Anyone have a line on glyoxic acid 3%???

1-mcp may cause similar issues... doesn't wear off it seems.

Researching reversing ethylene blocking atm. If you use blocking to start male pods then reverse it you may get regular pollen. Just ideas.
There are some things being published on it but not much.
Apparently UV-c can degrade the sts in solution...

 

[Tonygreen]

Is there a separate role for nitrous oxide in pollen shedding, or are you after nitric oxide?

The latter is way less fun.

Research papers on both galore.

Read some papers where nitrous blocks ethylene.
The thinking is apply to reverse then stop applications when you want pods to ripen.
My thought there is once you stop application ethylene is no longer blocked immediately. Whereas I'm finding very limited options to reverse sts affects.

 

[White Beard]

Always ready for one of your threads, Tony - sign me up!

 

[urbs]

I am familiar with the paper that discusses anjou pears and an apparent permanent inhibition of ripening by 1-mcp. The permanent ethylene inhibition was only reported with pears, and did not seem to occur with tomatoes or avocados. It might have to be tried, but https://www.plantgrowthhormones.com/plant-growth-regulator/other-plant-hormones/fresh-keeping-for-flower-vegetables-and.html is a source.