Toads for depression!!!

[Lost in a SOG]

Alcoholism, depression and a host of other mental issues are defined by a rigidity in how the brain functions. You are "stuck in a rut", figuratively and literally. The neural pathways become well worn, trodden and difficult to breach.

Psychdelics allow a reset, let the mind flow how it once did, as during childhood. The effect is not permanent and appears to wane within weeks or monthes yet it offers a glimpse of another path that one can work back towards.

Great description. All you guys are why i love this community lol.

Its all about habit and reward Dopamine. It is the neurotransmitter that initiates new synapse growth once it have been fired at a critical threshold level 3 times down a neuron, remembering from uni days. Hence addictive behaviours taking over someones entire psychology as the web of neurons associated with the addiction get laid over everything and old habits run deep.

There are many liver enzyme pathways and genes that code for the building and breaking down of this unbelievably important chemical, they are all as important as each other in reality but dopamine has some massive implications upon animal reward based behaviour.

Some people, including myself, have a genetic predisposition to have less dopamine receptor sites on their cells. So we are all a unique soup of how our various mix of genes cause us to metabolise, sense and catabolise chemicals such as dopamine, many that act simultaneously as neurotransmitters, hormones, antioxidants, enzymes and neuroprotective agents.

All too often we judge people for their "addiction" and in actual fact many peoples genetics mean they are very vulnerable to addictions. Even with alcoholism in some people it allows them to get around a genetic missing cofactor needed to manufacture certain chemistry, i think certain fatty acids or steroids if i remember correctly.

Over thinking or traumatising one's, as a product of trauma, psychology as well as the plethora of vices and addictions we have invented can as mikell really well puts it cause simple tributaries of neurons and nervous system activity to turn into torrential rivers and deep casms of thoughts or desire almost too deep to climb out of..

Entheogens have been really helpful for millenia for different forms of nero transmitter imbalance especially addiction and trauma and their benefits like many herbal allies can also reach right into epigenetic expression. Like flicking the on off switch when the whole system has got too buggy and over heated.

Its important imo on the subject to also remember the majority of the dopamine in your body is manufactured by bacteria in your GIT.. depression and mental health patterns are now being strongly linked with specific balances of bacteria in your gut as well as genetics.

You can always work to improve your genetic constitution with a lifestyle tailored to it.

 

[xavier7995]

I have heard rumor of DMT vape pens floating about on the darkwebz. Sounds terrifyingly rad and convenient.

I would like to give the natural straight from the toad stuff a whirl. Seems like a better experience than whatever I got handed as dmt.

 

[Loc Dog]

I have never tried the 5 meo dmt. I would like too though.


I am a big fan of dmt. And I can say that it has an amazing antidepressant effect on about half of the people I smoke it with. Comments like I think I lacked that, never been so ok with myself, I seen the world thru gods eyes are all common. Its truly amazing.

Might just have to blast off later today... Wheee

Only negative.. It smells bad. (Not that bad to me) but bad enough that if I smoke any in the house the wife will for sure ask how was hyperspace?

When I tried ayahuasca it was beautiful. But also took me a year to digest the lessons. Mostly because I am stubborn. But either way it gave me exactly what I need. In turn making my families life more pleasant and showing me a few bad habits I needed to do away with. And it made for damn sure when I got the message it was loud and clear. Might even go so far as to say it saved my life.

5 MEO DMT is 20 times as strong, which is why people probably have problems with it. Best to try some small doses first. I have heard people take 5 mg of 5 MEO DMT which is like 100mg of DMT, a very very strong dose. If you are not ready for another dimension, and creatures talking to you, could be horrible experience. That is probably why half the people in the study came back. From Erowid reports, they strongly advise supervision.

 

[Loc Dog]

I have heard rumor of DMT vape pens floating about on the darkwebz. Sounds terrifyingly rad and convenient.

I would like to give the natural straight from the toad stuff a whirl. Seems like a better experience than whatever I got handed as dmt.

Would be hard to get a measured dose.

Nice thing about smoking, or trying it for first time, is it only lasts 10 minutes, while eating is 3 to 7 hours.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

I have heard rumor of DMT vape pens floating about on the darkwebz. Sounds terrifyingly rad and convenient.

I would like to give the natural straight from the toad stuff a whirl. Seems like a better experience than whatever I got handed as dmt.

This is true. But I find its hard to fully blast off with the vape pens. The are great for concerts. Takes your acid trip from a 1 to a 10 and back to 1 in a few minutes.

If what you got handed as dmt was real you probably didn't smoke enough or get it quite right. It can take a few times to get it. I like to use a bong. Cover a packed bowl with a tenth of a gram. First toke you mostly are trying to get it started while not mistakenly melting it away. Second rip should be a big thick one. Many people want to stop there. But take another big rip. Hold them in as long as you can. Emphasis an the big rip and hold it in part. If you can do it. 4 or 5 bong rips will totally blow your mind. But 3 seems to be the magic number for getting over the uncomfortable space 1 or 2 hits usually leaves you.

I also heard dabbing it is super efficient. Use way less. Get there the first rip. I will try this. But have to admit a small fear of red hot quartz branding myself while traveling the geometric landscape.

 

[bigtacofarmer]

5 MEO DMT is 20 times as strong, which is why people probably have problems with it. Best to try some small doses first. I have heard people take 5 mg of 5 MEO DMT which is like 100mg of DMT, a very very strong dose. If you are not ready for another dimension, and creatures talking to you, could be horrible experience. That is probably why half the people in the study came back. From Erowid reports, they strongly advise supervision.

I have read all about it. Even considered purchasing some toads. I am sure it will find me when its time.

 

[Mikell]

Do you think it likely in the situation you refer to that the ego has restored its primacy in the consciousness? That the Ego is more powerful than the drug?

Simply, yes.

One of my favourite experiences reading the book was the correlation between well documented experiences and my own. I do not speak to a wide range of people, least of all concerning psychedelics, so many ideas are dèveloped isolated. It was (there, and is, here) reaffirming to see others mirror similar thoughts.

The ego as I see it is a construct of evolution. To put oneself forward of others is to guarantee our individual survival because we (as the ego informs us) are more important. With the aid of chemicals long available to humans we can temporarily dissolve this construct and while the return is inevitable, as with "escaping the rut", you retain a picture of another reality and can see beyond the horizon, so to speak.

 

[aridbud]

Would be hard to get a measured dose.

Nice thing about smoking, or trying it for first time, is it only lasts 10 minutes, while eating is 3 to 7 hours.

Too risky.....

 

[xavier7995]

This is true. But I find its hard to fully blast off with the vape pens. The are great for concerts. Takes your acid trip from a 1 to a 10 and back to 1 in a few minutes.

If what you got handed as dmt was real you probably didn't smoke enough or get it quite right. It can take a few times to get it. I like to use a bong. Cover a packed bowl with a tenth of a gram. First toke you mostly are trying to get it started while not mistakenly melting it away. Second rip should be a big thick one. Many people want to stop there. But take another big rip. Hold them in as long as you can. Emphasis an the big rip and hold it in part. If you can do it. 4 or 5 bong rips will totally blow your mind. But 3 seems to be the magic number for getting over the uncomfortable space 1 or 2 hits usually leaves you.

I also heard dabbing it is super efficient. Use way less. Get there the first rip. I will try this. But have to admit a small fear of red hot quartz branding myself while traveling the geometric landscape.

Oh it was certainly real and strong, no doubts there, I just marvel at the idea of it in a vape pen. Of course I marvelled at weed pens the same way "what is this sorcery" I proclaimed after getting one as a gift.

 

[star crash]

I hope this is not taboo topic, but it is important to me, who has suffered from depression for over 20 years, with no help from prozac, which is all they gave me.

Please delete if offensive. They have used ayahuasca for centuries in south america for spiritual reasons, which has similar chemicals. The stuff on toads is 20 times stronger.

https://www.sciencealert.com/inhali...once-can-make-people-feel-happier-for-a-month

Hey Loc Dog ...if i may steer you in this direction >>> you can achieve positive results with hours of treatment ...& I've tried every class of drugs so i know this to be the truth .. i hope you pursue this avenue ...peace & good grace & health

Empathogenic Experiences at Low Doses (25-50 mg)

At lower, sub-psychedelic doses (25-50 mg, or 0.25-50 mg/kg), ketamine has strong analgesic and anxiolytic (anti-anxiety) effects without creating a full-blown psychedelic experience. It produces an empathogenic, “heart-opening” state similar to what you might experience on MDMA or low doses of LSD or psilocybin. People report feelings of love, peace, compassion, forgiveness, and a touch of euphoria. This dose is sometimes used for analgesia because it induces a relaxed state and eases pain. While there are still some sedative effects, you remain aware of your body and probably won’t experience the characteristic mind-body disconnect that comes with higher doses—your ego defenses are lowered, but your sense of self is still intact and you won’t lose any motor function. You may have some magnified colorful visualizations, but full-blown visions are not common at low doses.
Whereas higher doses of ketamine may leave you with only half-formed memories of the experience, most people retain complete consciousness at this mild dose and can complete activities like reading a book or drawing. Thanks to the anxiolytic effects, it’s particularly good for relieving chronic anxiety because you still retain some of your faculties. At this dose, you could work with a therapist or clinician doing guided meditations or visualizations, and you could still engage with a therapist to resolve long-standing trauma from abuse, war experiences, familial conflict, or other intrapersonal conflicts.



Out-of-Body Experiences at Medium Doses (75-100 mg)

A medium dose of ketamine (75-100 mg, or 0.75-1 mg/kg) introduces the clinical state known as conscious sedation—in other words, it induces an out-of-body experience while keeping some semblance of ego intact. People experience a complete separation from their body and environment and have vivid visions behind closed eyes, such as visiting mythological realms, meeting non-terrestrial beings or deceased loved ones, re-experiencing birth, and dreams of past and future lives. These visions often arrange themselves in story or narrative form, similar to how an ibogaine experience can cause a “film-reel” experience of memories. You will probably lose motor function at this dose, so it’s important to have a safe set and setting.
Compared to a low dose, which alleviates stress and provides comfort, this dose creates a deeper experience that can bring unresolved problems in your unconsciousness to light and help you process traumatic events. Because receptors in your brain associated with memory are more heavily blocked, you may not remember all the particular details of your experience, but key elements will likely stand out, which you can then delve into with a therapist.



Ego Dissolution Experiences at High Doses (150-200 mg)

A high dose of ketamine (150-200 mg, or 1.5-2.0 mg/kg) can cause complete ego dissolution, “life-in-review” memories, transcendental experiences, and visions, even with the eyes open. This dose, according to a study published in the International Journal of Transpersonal Studies, can manifest in two ways. First, it can cause a loss of identity and provoke feelings similar to a near-death experience: you may feel as though you are experiencing either physical or mental death, relive your life through a narrative of memories, and become more aware of how your actions have affected others. In this state, you remain aware of who you are, but it’s like watching yourself from the outside. In the second possible state, you lose complete sense of self and can feel as though you’ve joined the collective unconscious or a sacred unity with nature or the universe—similar to people’s reports of ayahuasca experiences.
Due to the intense nature of this dose, it may not be the best choice for someone with anxiety (though it could be useful for the right person). But it can be extremely helpful for people suffering from chronic depression and may actually have the most long-lasting benefits of all the dose levels. Because you will probably lose all mobility at this state, it’s critical that you only attempt this under the guidance of a certified clinician and in a safe environment. While intense, a high dose can provide the wake-up call needed to reconnect with your inner self and help you get on the path to a healthy lifestyle.
A Spectrum of Effects for Healing

The acute effects of ketamine typically last 45-60 minutes, but it can have residual positive effects for several days or weeks after the experience. For example, people using ketamine to interrupt a depressive episode often feel the effects most after they’ve returned to sober, daily life. This makes it a promising treatment for a variety of mood disorders because it doesn’t have to be taken continuously, unlike a daily prescription medication.

 

[armedoldhippy]

I have read all about it. Even considered purchasing some toads. I am sure it will find me when its time.

that's what i need! a pet toad...

 

[Mikell]

100-200mg of mushrooms.

Anecdotal results are positive. The most extreme example was a bed bound unemployed younger man who has a renewed outlook on life and is back to work full time.

Sounds a bit snake oil. As often as not they are a gift. Either way it makes ya feel warm and fuzzy to have had a role.

I read the often quoted paper last year and have been hooked on the idea of the therapeutic use of psychedelics since. Can't recall the title but it's an easy google.

Fuckit here it is. Or close enough.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13311-017-0542-y

Roland Griffith's does the Lord's work.

 

[Loc Dog]

100-200mg of mushrooms.

Anecdotal results are positive. The most extreme example was a bed bound unemployed younger man who has a renewed outlook on life and is back to work full time.

Sounds a bit snake oil. As often as not they are a gift. Either way it makes ya feel warm and fuzzy to have had a role.

I read the often quoted paper last year and have been hooked on the idea of the therapeutic use of psychedelics since. Can't recall the title but it's an easy google.

Fuckit here it is. Or close enough.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13311-017-0542-y

Roland Griffith's does the Lord's work.

I heard about psychiatrists giving to patients and counseling them, for $2000.00. I am poor as shit, so can not afford to make them rich.

 

[Loc Dog]

I was researching DMT earlier today, and saw clinical study which saw cancerous tumors stop growing after DMT. Also, since DMT is made by individuals using various methods, it is important to treat every new batch as if it was extremely potent. Dry white crystals are usually the purest. Yellowish and oily tends to be a lot less pure. Important to remember milligrams are thousandths of a gram (.001). Ten is advised for first try, 50 - 60 is breakthrough to another dimension and 100 - 200 is extreme. Some people are more tolerant than others.

Important: If taking anything for first time, START LOW! These numbers below are just for general reference, remember that there are high individual variations, so be prudent.

DMT


SMOKED DMT FREEBASE:
(depending on smoking method) moderate/strong/breakthrough dose: 30-50mg

SMOKED JUNGLE SPICE FREEBASE:
10-40mg

INTRAMUSCULAR:
1mg/kg (source: lycaeum)

INTRAVENOUS:
moderate dose: 0.2mg/kg (source: Rick Strassman's experiments)
very strong dose: 0.4mg/kg (source: Rick Strassman's experiments)

SUBCUTANEOUS:
60-100mg (source:lycaeum)

ANAL:
?

ORAL (WITH MAOIS):
Moderate/Strong dose: 30-200mg.. VARIES A LOT depending on individual metabolism!! Having taken other psychedelics is no indication on the dosage one will need for oral DMT use. First timers with oral DMT should start with 30-50mg, not more!!!

JUNGLE SPICE ORAL (WITH MAOIS):
Little info! Start low, under 40mg

SUBLINGUAL (WITH MAOIS):
Moderate/Strong: 30mg

JUREMA/MIMOSA HOSTILIS INNER ROOTBARK


ORAL (WITH MAOIS):
3-5g (Some people report even 3g as strong doses. Start safe at no more than 3)

ORAL (WITHOUT MAOIS. NEEDS TO BE COLD WATER NON-ACIDIFIED INFUSION TO WORK)
Moderate/Strong Dose: 25-50g ( Source 1 , Source 2. Source 3, including words from Jonathan Ott @ last part of the page)


PSYCHOTRIA VIRIDIS

ORAL (WITH MAOIS)
Hawaiian or other potent chacruna- 10-25g
Standard chacruna 50-150g

DIPLOPTERYS CABRERANA/CHALIPONGA

ORAL (WITH MAOIS)
3-10 grams


MAOIS FOR ORAL DMT INGESTION


SYRIAN RUE/PEGANUM HARMALA
3g (source: Plants of the Gods)

BANISTERIOPSIS CAAPI
30 - 100 grams depending on batch (As an example, Azarius pre-made pack dosage uses 50g)

SYRIAN RUE HARMALA EXTRACT (HARMINE/HARMALINE MIX) *
Oral:150-250mg

HARMALINE. *
Oral: 100-150mg
Sublingual (for vaporized dmt potentiation): 15-30mg

HARMINE *
Oral: 150-250mg
Sublingual (for vaporized dmt potentiation): 30mg

THH (tetrahydroharmine)
Oral: 150 - 250mg - Note: Does NOT orally activate DMT, too weak MAOI. Some sellers sold mixture of THH/harmine
Sublingual (for vaporized dmt potentiation): 30mg


MOCLOBEMIDE
150mg (Source needed, also remember just from top of the head)


* Values for freebase harmalas. For HCl weight, if pure, increase around 5-10%, but often HCl has salt contamination and therefore values need to be even further increased. You can dissolve a known amount of harmalas HCl in water and add a base to precipitate the freebase, and then when weighing the freebase you'll have a good idea how pure the HCl was.


NOTE: (thanks acolon) contents may vary depending on batch, therefore careful test is necessary for each different batch. These are all just aproximate values for people to have an idea.

 

[Teddybrae]

For me your example is SO MUCH like the parable of Christ telling the Lame man to get up and walk.

How much, do you think, 'cures' such as this depend on the right information/input at the right time in the right environment?

I think that Ego-strength depends on transgenerational input. If as you noted here earlier the Ego has transgenerational elements, there likely must be a lot of egoic 'momentum' to be 'halted' by the drug or therapy. More with some people than others.

I noted in the documentary I quoted earlier that while the documentary's hero was able to attain Peace another voyager did not experience this. It was as if he could not break thru some sort of barrier and remained in much pain.

So it seems to me we should not regard the Toad to be a panacea for unhappiness. But perhaps in combination. Or after a lot of 'work' on ones Self.

Anyway Loc Doq I hope you find a way out of your Depression!

Peace to All ...

100-200mg of mushrooms.

Anecdotal results are positive. The most extreme example was a bed bound unemployed younger man who has a renewed outlook on life and is back to work full time.

Roland Griffith's does the Lord's work.

 

[Loc Dog]

My biggest worry is of the 42 people they gave it to, only 24 showed up 4 weeks later to do the follow up tests? And they didn't research why people didn't show, just kind of said okay, well we're good. What if they all died? And I mean even if they didn't die and just had a shitty experience, that data is part of the experiment. By removing it it skews the data in the other direction.

I have been studying for months. Some people have very bad experience, and would never do again, some like doing it a handful of times a year, and others do way too much, enjoying that world better than this. It is not like doing shrooms or acid, that I had taken when young. From reading experiences, when you breakthrough, it is like being warped down a wormhole to another world, meeting odd creatures you interact with. Scares the shit out of some people who can not deal with it. You should also be in a good state of mind, and be able to avoid negative thinking.

The edible or ayahuasca like method lasts several hours. Smoking lasts 7 to 15 minutes. Either method, they suggest a sitter, to help if negative thoughts arise to calm you down. Some say they have never had any bad experiences.

Some of the bizarre Tool videos are supposed to be DMT visions. The major psychedelic substance in toads is 5-MeO-DMT. Ayahuasca had DMT and an MAOI. It is much better to do the substances pure, to avoid poisons that make experience unpleasant and cause vomiting and diarrhea. Better than the Caapi vine used in ayahuasca, is Harmine from syrian rue seeds which is more pleasant MAOI, and considered mild psychedelic.

I plan on doing some shrooms, and harmine, together and separately to warm up before breakthrough dose of DMT, and only smoke for short term adventure (also starting off with small doses).

No one should try these things without studying first. Great info on Erowid and DMT-Nexus.

 

[Loc Dog]

G `day Teddy

The Toads they are referring to have DMT like contained in Ayuasca brews in their poison glands .
Difference is the Ayuasca needs another plant with it to activate the DMT in our stomachs. But by collecting the toad excretions , drying them and smoking . The DMT activates alone .

Mike Tyson says it has changed his life for the better .

Mike Tyson on smoking DMT: ‘Do you understand the toad?’ | The Art of Conversation w/ Dan Le Batard


Thanks for sharin

EB .

The DMT needs to be converted to a base to be used as edible, and an MAOI is needed.

 

[Loc Dog]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but MAOI's are very dangerous (kill you dangerous) if mixed with an SSRI like Prozac. You need a month off a SSRI before using MAOI.

 

[Loc Dog]

I know 5MeO-DMT is the active component found in the Sonora desert toads pimples but it's hard core man, really. It's a bit like DMT's evil twin, very similar in effects but less colourful and even more scary. If you want to experience the good that's the way to go but Hayahuasca or DMT are much more casual to start with if you want to go that path. Also the Central African plant iboga is gaining attention tasoday a scary but life changing experience, helped several people who struggled to quit heroin for instance. whatever I wouldn't recommendto lick a toad without some good information first but yes, maybe a shock treatment but no magical reset pill, would probably do wonders if psychiatrists with enough background for bringing good guidance were allowed to use it clinically on their patients though.

Psychiatrists are using DMT and 5-MeO-DMT with patients, and guiding them through it, for $2000.00 a session.

 

[Loc Dog]

Great description. All you guys are why i love this community lol.

Its all about habit and reward Dopamine. It is the neurotransmitter that initiates new synapse growth once it have been fired at a critical threshold level 3 times down a neuron, remembering from uni days. Hence addictive behaviours taking over someones entire psychology as the web of neurons associated with the addiction get laid over everything and old habits run deep.

There are many liver enzyme pathways and genes that code for the building and breaking down of this unbelievably important chemical, they are all as important as each other in reality but dopamine has some massive implications upon animal reward based behaviour.

Some people, including myself, have a genetic predisposition to have less dopamine receptor sites on their cells. So we are all a unique soup of how our various mix of genes cause us to metabolise, sense and catabolise chemicals such as dopamine, many that act simultaneously as neurotransmitters, hormones, antioxidants, enzymes and neuroprotective agents.

All too often we judge people for their "addiction" and in actual fact many peoples genetics mean they are very vulnerable to addictions. Even with alcoholism in some people it allows them to get around a genetic missing cofactor needed to manufacture certain chemistry, i think certain fatty acids or steroids if i remember correctly.

Over thinking or traumatising one's, as a product of trauma, psychology as well as the plethora of vices and addictions we have invented can as mikell really well puts it cause simple tributaries of neurons and nervous system activity to turn into torrential rivers and deep casms of thoughts or desire almost too deep to climb out of..

Entheogens have been really helpful for millenia for different forms of nero transmitter imbalance especially addiction and trauma and their benefits like many herbal allies can also reach right into epigenetic expression. Like flicking the on off switch when the whole system has got too buggy and over heated.

Its important imo on the subject to also remember the majority of the dopamine in your body is manufactured by bacteria in your GIT.. depression and mental health patterns are now being strongly linked with specific balances of bacteria in your gut as well as genetics.

You can always work to improve your genetic constitution with a lifestyle tailored to it.

You mention the gut. I recently read an article saying, they think people that had appendix removed at early age have much less chance of Parkinsons later in life. You could do quick google for "appendix and parkinsons" if interested.