To defoliate or not?

[Switcher56]

Sorry, the link by itself brings up "the post" itself, you chose to post. https://growcastpodcast.libsyn.com/d...with-david-k-0

Good friend of the show and cultivation data fanatic David K from Agrify is back on the program! Today he's here for an extremely enlightening and information-packed episode all about the science behind legacy cultivation practices. David talks about some seriously hot button issues, and shares the data that he's collected from all of Agrify's different cultivation data sets. He takes on the topic of defoliation, explaining which aspects of defoliation create desirable results, and which parts are misunderstood. David also gives an interesting take on taking cuttings for clones, showing data the reveals we may not be taking cuttings optimally. He also addresses the topic of flushing, explaining how flushing is misunderstood, but also some of the ancillary ways it may contribute to a smoother smoking experience... Visit www.agrify.com to find out more about David's work! ---WE LOVE AC INFINITY! Industry ventilation leaders, now with tents, pots, scissors and more! www.acinfinity.com use promo code growcast15 for 15% off the BEST grow fans in the game!--- ---Proud parters of Photontek- top of the line, efficient and powerful LED grow lights- use code growcast at www.photontek-lighting.com to save 5% off your high-end full spectrum grow lights! www.photontek-lighting.com code growcast--- ---Proud partners of Plant Revolution! www.plantrevolution.com try their new King Crab beneficial bacteria today! Increase nutrient uptake, photosynthesis, soil breakdown, and more! This product will be a game changer for you in ANY cultivation setup!---

It does qualify as spam, although you might not have been spamming Hence, great commercial

 

[PoweredByLove]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering what's your opinion, personal experience,.. etc about defoliating? This includes even extreme practices like removing all of the fan leaves?

Do you get more yield, better buds,...?

​​​​​​Thanks.

I find in my experience it's strain dependant. I did a side by side type experiment a few years ago. I think the thread should still be in grow experiments.

Some strains do better left alone, some better with a topping, some light defoliating, and in the case of the 98bubba I experimented on, heavy defoliating like remove every leaf halfway through flower and let em grow back yielded massive.

 

[farmerlion]

I have a post in the forum aims thread from doctor's studies on this subject. I did a side by side study a few years ogo on plants of the same genetics. There was only a 7 gram difference at harvest in my greenhouse. The untopped plant produced the most dried cannabis. My opinion is this, nobody goes back to the doctor for a second circumcision. It doesn't make your penis bigger.
peace farmerlion

 

[Hammerhead]

I think most adopted the practice to improve airflow. It has always been pruning to me. I still prune all my plants. Defoliating is an incorrect term IMO.

 

[rootmaxmycorrhizae]

I agree, pruning has always been my preferred way to improve airflow for my plants. I still stick to pruning as my method of choice. I find "defoliating" to be an incorrect term in my opinion.

 

[X15]

Just thought I’d chime in on this after listening to the Cannabis Cultivation Podcast with Tad Hussey. He had a gentleman on that spoke in regards to defoliating and the effects he noticed and I thought it was interesting he mentioned the fact of observed how even Sugar Leaves covered in Trichs will photosynthesize just fine. I believe his guest did mention that he noticed a loss in yield from excessive defoliation.
As an organic soil grower myself I’ve had mixed results with yield but seem to have more prompt finishing times without medium- heavy defoliation. If the plant uses up nutrients from lowers and they come off with little to no force I’ll take them , if not I feel the plant could benefit from those reserves. On the other hand bushy plant’s definitely can benefit from some for added airflow but when it comes to yield… I prefer to remove lower bud sites and keep the leaves as reserves for later flowering.

 

[PoweredByLove]

I think if you taking off every leaf you can call it de foliation if you want. I still think regular pruning is the best way to go. Sure you might end up with bigger bud but I feel overall you lose something in forcing the plant to move all that energy into trying to replace leaves and branch out. Preferred method is let the plant grow their natural structure, and prune off everything near the bottom unless you gonna use those popcorn for something and unless you out for yields I don't top and train. If you flower the plant at the right height and feed it what it needs at the right time the whole thing can fit under the light and you just need basic support. It'll maximize itself.

I'm more of a connoisseur quality over quantity type of guy. It's the Era I grew up in.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

This is an oldie that's come back to life.

Imnsho, no... just don't do it.

If you understand basic botany, you know buds don't need direct sunlight for their cells to reproduce to grow larger and produce resin. Why would you remove the major carbohydrate producer of a plant?

 

[bigsur51]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering what's your opinion, personal experience,.. etc about defoliating? This includes even extreme practices like removing all of the fan leaves?

Do you get more yield, better buds,...?

Thanks.

I recall a lecture by my Plant Science professor back when I was in college taking some Horticulture classes and he said , “ Most plants can lose up to 20-30% of their leaves and it will not have a negative effect on the plants rate of photosynthesis….

so yeah , defoliate to your hearts desire…

 

[Negreenthumb420]

Yeah I defoliate because the space is so packed with other growth (stems and bud sites) that it’s beneficial for air flow and humidity control.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

About 3 weeks post flip, so it was time to trim a little bit and get rid of some lower / non-functioning leaves:

This is the after shot. As you can tell, a trim/haircut would be a more appropriate description than _defoliate_:

And these, which are the leaves removed from 12 plants, are going to the compost container:

This is the type of lower level, non-functioning leaves I cut, not rip, off the stalks:

I'm aware of the studies that show that you can remove X percentage of leaves from a plant and it will have no adverse effect on the plant itself or the amount of buds. And for scientifically measured and assayed plant material, that you don't use to get _high_, that may be true.

But for something that alters my mental status in the most positive way, I see no need to terminate leaves/buds, until I'm ready to harvest, and the plant is ready to die anyway.

I take care of the plant that takes care of me, rather than stripping and destroying major portions of it... to improve air circulation.

That's why God invented fans.

 

[Donald Mallard]

About 3 weeks post flip, so it was time to trim a little bit and get rid of some lower / non-functioning leaves:

View attachment 18977357
This is the after shot. As you can tell, a trim/haircut would be a more appropriate description than _defoliate_:
View attachment 18977364

And these, which are the leaves removed from 12 plants, are going to the compost container:
View attachment 18977365

This is the type of lower level, non-functioning leaves I cut, not rip, off the stalks:
View attachment 18977367
I'm aware of the studies that show that you can remove X percentage of leaves from a plant and it will have no adverse effect on the plant itself or the amount of buds. And for scientifically measured and assayed plant material, that you don't use to get _high_, that may be true.

But for something that alters my mental status in the most positive way, I see no need to terminate leaves/buds, until I'm ready to harvest, and the plant is ready to die anyway.

I take care of the plant that takes care of me, rather than stripping and destroying major portions of it... to improve air circulation.

That's why God invented fans.

True defoliation is incorrect for what most people do since by definition it means removing all the leaf, pruning is the more accurate term for what most folks are doing and its doubtful the true definition of defoliation is of much benefit

 

[CocoNut 420]

I don't subscribe to removing leafs being beneficial to a plant/harvest, I thought leafs/green is the foundation of plant growth.

Ive found that buds don't need direct light to grow big?

If light gathering was taken off the table that still leaves transpiration, co2 gass exchange and the storage of starches which gets used during the dark period.
Its easy to verify for yourself with a simple iodine starch staining test before light off and before light on, it's science fact.

I've a lot of bud that didn't ever see direct light.




I don't not defoliate or lollipop but that's for my benefits not the plants, the transpiration can work against us, its in that situation it makes sense to do but selectively.

To be clear it's normal to remove a few leafs here and there it's the heavy duty stripping of leafs I can't work out?

 

[CharlesU Farley]

True defoliation is incorrect for what most people do since by definition it means removing all the leaf, pruning is the more accurate term for what most folks are doing and its doubtful the true definition of defoliation is of much benefit

I think the term for complete defoliation, that people are using with cannabis, is called swazzi, or something like that.

Plant abuse, afaic.

 

[GET MO]

I use defoliation as a means of allowing othwr branches to step up for canopy control. I take the top leaves off and naturally the lower branches have increased production and stretch.
I do this all through growth to create an even canopy of tops, along with pinching and bending the stubborn ones.

 

[GET MO]

2 days later, lower branches are stretching more, will keep taking the top leaves off the main colas until even canopy. Sometimes take it off the secondary ones too to increase it more. Sorta like lst or topping but i feel its less stressful.

 

[shiva82]

pruning is the wrong term . removing a few leaves is minor defoliation .

Pruning is a horticultural, arboricultural, and silvicultural practice involving the selective removal of certain parts of a plant, such as branches, buds, or roots.

 

[kro-magnon]

This is an oldie that's come back to life.

Imnsho, no... just don't do it.

If you understand basic botany, you know buds don't need direct sunlight for their cells to reproduce to grow larger and produce resin. Why would you remove the major carbohydrate producer of a plant?

All growers know there is a huge quality difference between a bud who had direct light and one who have grown in the shade of a fan leave. The buds with direct are always producing better flowers, making more weight because more dense. Removing leaves who are blocking the light from a bud site is beneficial for the finished products so I see no reason to not do it. I've never stripped all leaves from my plants but some growers do and still get some massive buds. Where I live the humidity is pretty high so I have to remove some leaves to avoid water drops forming and create mold it's another situation where removing leaves is useful.

 

[CocoNut 420]

I don't subscribe to the notion of removing leafs being beneficial for to buds, to me leafs grow the buds.

In my veg tent I use defoliation as a means to slow down growth and use selective defoliation to help control stretch.

I've lot's of examples of buds grown in shade all their life.

Under the leaf

To me plant health is key.

 

[GET MO]

There are reasons to and reasons not to. The way I grow is usually too many plants packed in together, doing a mass defoliation allows better air flow to prevent disease and allows light to hit more budsites producing more bud and less larf underneath the direct canopy. Secondly, besides the lst method i mentioned above, defoliating before spraying for pests in veg allows much better coverage. The leaves grow back fast.
That being said, some situations you wouldnt want to defoliate in flower, like if your plants are well spread out, or you are doing a sea of green with single tops and that main top is the bulk of your harvest.
I treat it as a case by case, not there is one right way and one wrong way to do it.