This appears to be the scientific arguement against a 24/0 light/dark cycle for veg

[headiez247]

Been vegging 24/0 for two years, explosive vegetative growth, along with most other commercial growers that i know. fuck the scientific stuff.

 

[LJB]

Been vegging 24/0 for two years, explosive vegetative growth, along with most other commercial growers that i know. fuck the scientific stuff.

Yes, but the commercial growers that don't veg for 24/0 and also report explosive growth are potentially spending less on expenses per crop.

One thing this thread has made me realize is that there is absolutely no basis for consensus. Everyone reports explosive growth using their favorite regime.

And you don't realize that most if not all of the techniques that you and your buddies use are scientific in nature?

Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is, in its broadest sense, any systematic knowledge-base or prescriptive practice that is capable of resulting in a prediction or predictable type of outcome. In this sense, science may refer to a highly skilled technique or practice.[1]

Yeah, Fuck science. Fuck it in the ear.

 

[whodair]

temps!

temps!

esp in winter, if 24hr light keeps your temps up, it may be a better choice for veg.

 

[headiez247]

Yes, but the commercial growers that don't veg for 24/0 and also report explosive growth are potentially spending less on expenses per crop.

One thing this thread has made me realize is that there is absolutely no basis for consensus. Everyone reports explosive growth using their favorite regime.

And you don't realize that most if not all of the techniques that you and your buddies use are scientific in nature?



Yeah, Fuck science. Fuck it in the ear.

Experience comes before reports made by horticulturists studying how roses veg. Find a article where the study was done on marijuana plants and it will have more meaning.

The amount of money "saved" by a commercial grower by going from 24/0 to 18/6 is insignificant to say the least. When your power bill is $2,000 per month, saving $45 isn't really gonna persuade me to jump on that band wagon.

Many people might claim explosive growth but in my realm, where my grow is my entire income, trust me, if it wasn't workin' out I'd be on top of it ASAP.

So in that sense, yes, fuck science in the ear.

 

[BLUNToPOTomuss]

Ive always figured that 24/0 gives the most compact node spacing in general.

Its pretty simple when you think about it. When the plant has a 20/4 schedule it will be a bit lankyer because it is "looking for light" during the 4 hour dark veg times. Whereas a plant with 24/0 never looses that source of light and hence never hass to stretch for the light.

 

[Scottyboycx]

hmmm this is interesting....my flowering cab runs lights on at 2pm-2am...am i missing the best period of growth? how does a clone when midday is when it has been under 24/0 for generations? my light are on wierd time cos i stay up late and sleep late

 

[LJB]

When the plant has a 20/4 schedule it will be a bit lankyer because it is "looking for light" during the 4 hour dark veg times. Whereas a plant with 24/0 never looses that source of light and hence never hass to stretch for the light.

I have not had that experience, but maybe it's because of propagating with CFLs that are kept ridiculously close to the plants.

However, when the lights are out, plants don't look for light, I think, unless there is a light leak teasing them. The stomata close and the plant hydrates through the roots.

 

[LJB]

Many people have done their own test and come to conclusions. I will do my own.

The 24/0 have many good points.

It's certainly possible that there is a sweet spot level of light (PPFD), humidity, temperate and CO2 that allows for a more constant level of photosynthesis, with few peaks and valleys, that requires no breaks.

 

[delta9nxs]

this is a fascinating thread.

i've been vegging 24/0 for years with intense lighting and grow large, high yielding plants.

it is obvious that the "dark processes" occur in the presence of continuous light.

but, i too have recently read a thread here, that i'm having a hell of a time finding again, that showed weight and growth studies under different light regimes.

it clearly showed that 20/4 was the best overall producer and was given a rating of 100%.

the next best was 24/0 at something like 87%, followed by 18/6, which i can't remember the % for but i think was in the 70% range

i'm still looking for the article.

if anyone finds it please post the link. d9

 

[Longhair]

I don't get why people keep needing some scientist to them how to grow... do some simple tests and you'll find out for yourself, that's what I did and now I know which works better.

It's easy to do, take some clones from the same mother plant and put half in 24 light, and the others in 18 hour of light. I did this a few times and the ones that had a dark cycle always rooted faster and healthy.
Then I did the same test with rooted clones in soil. The clones in 18/6 roots grew faster and stronger. The plants were a bit slower, but only until the roots developed well.

So that closes the book on the subject for me, it's all I need to know and care about. Any science background about why and why not, I really don't give a crap about.
I just want to point that out, cause some many people just keep beating this dead horse. And they will just end up testing it and finding out on their own anyway.

Hello,
I Agree.


Longhair

 

[LJB]

I don't get why people keep needing some scientist to them how to grow

Where do you guys come up this line? I love it.

I don't think you or anyone else that posted it to this thread really understand it what it means.

What's the difference between getting information from successful cannabis growers, borrowing from tried and true crop farming techniques or attaining information from controlled experiments conducted in laboratories?

Your telling us that not once in your lifetime you've learned from an experienced grower with refined techniques, be it talking to them directly or reading their grow journals? Is it your advice to newbies that they should ignore experienced and successful growers?

Are you afraid of Ogre calling you a nerd?

The word science comes from the Latin "scientia," meaning knowledge.

How do we define science? According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, the definition of science is "knowledge attained through study or practice," or "knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, esp. as obtained and tested through scientific method [and] concerned with the physical world."

Is there a technique that you use in your garden that isn't based on something that fits this description?

I am good at identifying brains and talent in other people, i.e. identifying experts in their field and really don't care if they wear a lab coat or jeans to work.

 

[LJB]

And speaking of which, what have we here, what looks like an expert. A SCIENTIST!

My secrets of success with True AFs.
IceColdCrickets
Gnomes

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 572

REVISED! 11-27-09

Hey everyone, for those of you that dont know me,, i have been working AFs for the past 6 yrs, a few weeks after JointDoctor released his first batch of pure LR#1, I saw the light early and began my madness. I did a lot of work on HB.net for yrs, doing many experiments, grows, and such on True AF strains. That 400watt sog Sticky here is just 1 of many. During all this I have fine tuned my work to be easy as possible on myself to produce the best AF plants possible. I want to share that info here now to help people succeed with True AF stains as I do. I see a lot of AFs on here that just seems so small and dinky, time to change all that.

Light Schedule for True Auto Flowering Cannabis:

There has been a lot of debate about what is the best lighting schedule for True AF cannabis. I have done many experiments about this and have found leaving the plants in 24 hours of light from sprout to 1 week after sexing/preflowering has begun, then switch the Lighting Schedule to 20/4 until harvest, this method has yielded the very best results.

Auto flowering I am still clueless about, totally fascinating shit.

 

[LJB]

I think the debate can be closed on AFs. Also still considering them a sub-topic for now, as in the results could be different for standard (?) cannabis.

 

[foaf]

After all, the purpose of the greenhouse or enclosed grow room is to duplicate nature!

The goal is to grow the most best pot in a safe and convenient way while trying to maximize time, effort, electricity, and safety. Now the conditions in nature are certainly a starting point, but obviously those parameters can be improved apon (co2 supplimentation, unnatural growing media, unnatural feeding schedules...ect.)

Im pretty sure that there isnt much difference in outcomes from 18/6 and 24/0 or whatever, and Im positive you can get good results with both.

 

[*mistress*]

attributed to e. rosenthal:

*arijuan* plants photosynthesize as long as they receive light as well as water, air, nutrients and suitable temperature. Photosynthesis is the process in which plants use the energy from light (primarily in the blue and red spectrum's) to combine carbon dioxide (CO2) from the air and water (H2O) to make sugar while releasing oxygen to the air.

Plants use sugars continuously to fuel metabolic processes (living) as well as for tissue building. The plant combines nitrogen (N) with the sugar to make amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. They are the substance of plant tissue. When the light is off, the plant's metabolic processes, respiration and growth, continue.

The plant can photosynthesize continuously so it produces the most energy and growth when the light is on, continuously. Continuous light does not stress the plant, which reacts somewhat mechanistically to it.

Plants under an 18-6 light-dark regimen are producing sugar only three quarters of the time. They are thus growing at only 75% of their potential. Leaving the light on continuously will result in bigger plants, faster, which leads to higher yields.

&...

Do plants need a dark period during the vegetative cycle?

Does m******** require a dark period during the vegetative growth stage? I recently read a grow book that advocated an 18-6 light cycle during the early growth stages.

e. rosenthal:
One way in which plants are categorized is by the way they gather and handle carbon dioxide. Cannabis is a C3 plant. It uses the CO2 it gathers during the light period, when it is photosynthesizing. Plants designated C4 also gather CO2 during the dark period for use during the light period. Many C3 plants, including cannabis, do not need a rest period. They continue to photosynthesize as long as they are receiving light.

The plant's photosynthetic rate determines its growth rate because the sugars are used by the plant to build tissue and for energy. C*nn*bis under continuous light will grow 33% faster than the same plants on an 18-6 light regime.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[Young Pumpkin]

Well its always been 24/0 for me and as for me, and possibly only me, this debate is done and over.

Thanx Mistress, luv the research and the quotes you do. Now my wife wants to find an outfit like that so she can play magician!?!?!? I think its the top hat she really likes...lol. Maybe I'm supposed to disappear or something.....and leave the garden???

 

[TLoft13]

this is a fascinating thread.

i've been vegging 24/0 for years with intense lighting and grow large, high yielding plants.

it is obvious that the "dark processes" occur in the presence of continuous light.

but, i too have recently read a thread here, that i'm having a hell of a time finding again, that showed weight and growth studies under different light regimes.

it clearly showed that 20/4 was the best overall producer and was given a rating of 100%.

the next best was 24/0 at something like 87%, followed by 18/6, which i can't remember the % for but i think was in the 70% range

i'm still looking for the article.

if anyone finds it please post the link. d9

I would be interested,too. Tagged.

Edit: Found it.


Credits go to Gunnaknow who posted this on ICMAG:
Originally Posted by bounty29
I used 24/0 for the first and second grows, but then I saw someone that did a pretty good comparison of veg times. They used all the same clone, and did some with 24/0, some with 20/4, some with 18/6, and maybe one other timing. The ones that vegged with 20/4 yielded the most, so that's what I use. The only difference it is to me is I have to plug the timer in for veg too, not too big of a deal.

Sorry I don't have that comparison, I think it was on another forum somewhere and I have no idea where to start looking. If anyone else has seen it maybe they can post it.
Hi Bounty, perhaps you were referring to a post on another forum by Oldtimer1? He tested veg light cycles on different sativas. The best veg light cycle for indicas and crosses might be different, however. Here are his findings...

Quote(Oldtimer):
We did a lot of experiments with light times a few years back using known sat and sat dom clone lines.

With Vegging ie under hid lights.

20/4 produced the most sturdy growth and the most bulk. Best final yield, taken as 100%.
22/2 Less of both. yield 88%
18/6 Studier than 22/2 but slightly less bulk. yield 87%
24/0 Much lighter in all aspects than 18/6. Yield 79%
16/8 The weediest plants. yield 67%

Plants vegged to final pots under fluorescents at 20w per sq ft on 18/6 yield 49%

Have not tried 36 hrs dark but did try 48 hrs from 18/6 veg. The final yield was down between 15 and 20% by var the pure sats the biggest loss in final weight and caused the odd herm, [sats] it did reduce the flowering time by 5 to 8 days.

For the mum lines we have 20/4 to 12/12 gives the best crop weight and bud quality, really thats all I’m interested in.

ICMAG thread: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=64312&highlight=20/4+100%.

Original discussion was apparently on Overgrow, continued here: http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=35728&st=15&p=334916&#entry334916

 

[h.h.]

5/1

 

[*mistress*]

Well its always been 24/0 for me and as for me, and possibly only me, this debate is done and over.

Thanx Mistress, luv the research and the quotes you do. Now my wife wants to find an outfit like that so she can play magician!?!?!? I think its the top hat she really likes...lol. Maybe I'm supposed to disappear or something.....and leave the garden???

classic...
she wants to play butch (/bi?) dom...

ready?

maybe not disappear...
maybe be bottom to her top... hat that is

enjoy your garden!

 

[Young Pumpkin]

classic...
she wants to play butch (/bi?) dom...

ready?

maybe not disappear...
maybe be bottom to her top... hat that is

enjoy your garden!

Well she knows that if I go the garden goes. She had her chance after I was laid up (car accident) for 8 weeks. The garden was still alive......sort-of. I figure thats the reason she's kept me around for almost 30 years. That and the occasional nice corset from "across the pond". So maybe the gas mask isn't for emergencies and the new collar isn't for the dog??? And where did my "Houdini" books go to??? What yard sell baby??? I don't remember any......oops...

Life may not be the party we wanted, but while we're here we might as well dance.