RingtailCanyon
Well-known member
12/12 is just an arbitrary compromised number. It’s like wearing one size fits all hat. I’d rather have a fitted hat and I like to fit the light schedule to get the most of the best.
100% This is especially true for growing landraces indoors to their optimal potential it makes sense for me to try and mimic their natural photoperiods and temperature shifts and metabollic intake, nutrients and water a strain in equator that finishes in dry season with less water and nutrient availability wont finish the right way if you water up until a few days before harvest regularly, theres a balance, in containers it is harder to find depending on the strain because they dry out quicker between watering in general than the natural earth but by letting them dryout completely then watering just enough to keep them healthy this will help simulate their natural transition, just an example. you have the right idea 100% its best to try and get the full potential of the strain.12/12 is just an arbitrary compromised number. It’s like wearing one size fits all hat. I’d rather have a fitted hat and I like to fit the light schedule to get the most of the best.
when flowering plants last year in rising daylight hours i did to help them finish faster and plan on doing the same this year, outdoors. i made sure to let them dry out really well between watering when they are in flowring, but not enough to where it kills my soil life and plant, just slows down the metabolism of plant and soil. i think most varieties finish flowering in lower amount of rainfall, so i try to reduce the amount of watering in flowering but still keeping my soil active when growing plants in dry season, i noticed in the past the plants i watered alot during dry season, attracted more pest because it had more water and energetic sap to feed on, and the caggage moths are also attracted to them more for this reason, so it is beneficial to mimic nature for fullest maturity in the flowers as well as not make your plant a target for pest in dry season. imagine being a bug and having all this plants with less active and less water content in their sap, when there is this juicy plant that is being watered in dry sesaon, its like the bugs finding a pool of water in the desert.@Verdant Whisperer do you employ a drought stress technique?
First let me thank you for posting this thread and I apologize if I seem a bit gruff at times but I do enjoy a good debate. There is alot of good discussion going on here. Like you I'm not a big fan of how "science"has presented it's self recently. I beleave that science should always be able to change its position and follow new hypothesis. I beleave I do I understand your argument here. I'm not nessarly going with the "old model" but I'm not going with your theory either . Light energy is collected and stored in green plants through photosnithisis in the form of sugar. I beleave its safe to assume that more light intensity equals more photosnithisis that equals more sugar or "energy". With your theory in mind,why wouldn't a plant grown with less direct sunlight mature later than one grown in full sun? I've done this before and they will flower at the same time regardless of how much direct sun they receive. I'm certain that growth regulators and such play a roll, but there is something else involved for the timing to be so percise I do admit that there is some evidence that your theory is correct or perhaps partially correct. Some of the results from the study posted by @RingtailCanyon comes to mind. Edit - I'll go with initiate flowering rather than mature. the old model says that the phytochromes are responsible for tracking light hours, i am saying they confused this measurements. they dont track the light hours, they track the change in total amount of light energy
What your saying agrees with my proposed model. the fact your plants can flower while the photoperiod is increasing.Plants don't count hours to know when to flower but light reduce the amount of the hormone responsible for flowering, with more dark time the level of flowering hormone rise triggering the flowering. This can happen with increasing day time as long as the dark period is long enough to reach the triggering level of flowering hormone. I have flowered plants outdoor during winter while daylenght was rising but the dark was long enough to rise the flowering hormone level.
If the plant gathers enough energy to initiate flowering, and the auxin levels decrease enough it will initate flowering in light hours its not acclimated to or its genetic blueprint. any strain can flower in 24 hours of light with enough time, some mothers last 20+ years others flower in 7 months in 24 hours of light as ive seen in other post. its a combination of factors. if the plant is being attacked by bugs and super stressed and has all the right factors it will find a way to flower, even if it takes 50 years in 24/0. where some strains can already flower in 24 hours light because of their hormonal profile easier with the right stress and environment and low nitrogen flowering nutrients. and one thing i only grow outdoors now, indoor is a different ball game there are less forces at play but its would be actually easier to manipulate the environment indoor to induce flowering under more light hours by using other factors such as temperature decline over a period gradual decline, reduced light intensity to decreasure auxins. as well as drought dress and nitrogen straving the plant.You will never be able to flower photoperiod plants if the dark period is not long enough to trigger flowering. If you pretend otherwise show us how you do with a serious grow log.
So what your saying the flowering hormone is independent and works by itself and isnt influenced by other hormones... got it.You misunderstand the mechanisms of flowering, it is the level of flowering hormone who trigger it, nothing else.
Unless you make a photoperiod flower with long day hours all this thread is just nonsense.So what your saying the flowering hormone is independent and works by itself and isnt influenced by other hormones... got it.
Unless you make a photoperiod flower with long day hours all this thread is just nonsense.
I have a pretty good understanding of english but I don't get what you mean in this post, to me it sounds like a world saladThere are some interesting concepts in the thread but the DLI the critical cutoff for flowering and when the plants either become saturated or produce white tops needs balancing.
How the lineage and hormonal balance is inherited and its roles of plant processes and function needs more investigation. Looking at Lebanon or Morocco compared to compared Afghanistan with Jamaica to Colombia the photoperiods are very different..
How light can be manipulated with photoperiod angle spectrum heat etc and the role heat spectrum plays on the plant photosynthetic pathways.
I think that autos may flower in a number of ways and responses. You can plant them in 12/12 and they will flower but grow and then differentiate. If you plant them on 24/0 same thing really they grow and the flower. Slight differences in chemo-type/ variance in phenotype and the critical day length make testing with identical clonal phenotypes tricky.
The Spectrum and the duration plants receive directly influences the resulting structure of them and out of clonal populations the phytochemical will differ. There's methodologies implementing container size 'stress reduction' methods with potential to let them grow for longer but the genotype ultimately sets the limit for what you get from the phenotypes.
Says unless you can swap out the trigger for critical day length find it and turn it off then what we know is current and how it is.
I don't think you have to breed it you just need to find it.. You can look forever and you won't find it.
That's trying to find a Cam2 plant in Cam3 populations. How do we segregate that
The methodologies to manipulate a "Niche" clonal environment pushing more useable light in a 12/12 or more DLI in the 13/11 will get you more flower but not necessarily anymore cannabinoids/ Again that's Chemotype/phenotype. You can probably push more bio'flavonoids / flavourants with manipulating spectrum more than day length.
Daylength and light intensity genetics will be the things you can push breeding..
Running 12/6/1/6 or 18/6 to determine critical daylength you might find that flipping to 13/11 then pushes what's currently known about and with the 'Niche' spectrum you could push the watts and UV over the whole day or concentrate it and reduce power consumption. It's finding that balance of responses from the chloroplast.
A quick flowering long blooming genotype with a DLI of and a CPP could be pushed to the very limits of size and ability reducing energy costs finding the 'Critical' - Sweet Spot. This process combined with the 'Niche' spectrum to deliver everything the Chemotype has to offer.. Pushing Flower size to limits, maybe breaking total cannabinoid concentrations for greenhouse grown crops, maxing out terpenes into the 5% range under the correct environmental tweeks. Thiols esters and what not.
Light quality as a driver of photosynthetic apparatus development - PMC
Light provides energy for photosynthesis and also acts as an important environmental signal. During their evolution, plants acquired sophisticated sensory systems for light perception and light-dependent regulation of their growth and development in ...pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Thanks for trying to make it makes sense for me. The fact equatorial cannabis has a much longer flowering period is related to their proximity to the equator where day and night have pretty much the same lenght.The more you say the more there is to say. There's a lot to be said..
Geographical cannabis has either near equal photoperiods such as Colombian or Afghans which have more of a challenging Environmental swing. This suggests to me the critical day length in Colombian is perhaps more sensitive but no less important that that of Afghan where they get longer days and possibly 2 more months.. I don't know I've not grown there..
I'll see if I can edit up the alphabet salad I posted make it read better.. I know what I'm trying to say it's finding the words
Thats excellent by selecting for the lower auxin levels this should do two things, decrease height, and increase side branching which is good for indoors. one cue to look for is less auxins there leaves are less symmetrical as well. you see the small seedling its leaves growing on top. so one thing in terms of effects, other than terpenes ect cannabinoids looking through a simple concept that can be connected, Auxins= are like related to the energy the strain delivers the amount of life it has to it whether it is a warm or a cold high.Auxin distribution could be a factor, I’m experimenting with polycot thai plants to adapt them for indoors, shorter node distance, shorter root length, larger floral clusters..
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Some interesting info in the following link including observations on cotyledon shape and size..
The polycotyledon Mutant of Tomato Shows Enhanced Polar Auxin Transport - PMC
The polycotyledon mutant of tomato (Lycopersicon esculentum L. cv Ailsa Craig) showed altered development during embryogenesis and during vegetative and reproductive phases. The phenotype was pleiotropic and included the formation of extra ...pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov