The True Origin of G13

[hellfire]

LG13 is most likely Lemon G13 aka Lemon G. To my knowledge it is the original G13 with an unknown male, possibly a lemon scented Columbian.

The original G13 I've had was food like tasting with a tiny hint of pine and acrid aroma. Its like smoking a turkey gravy joint kinda with a light pine herb crust.

 

[Tynehead Tom]

LG13 is most likely Lemon G13 aka Lemon G. To my knowledge it is the original G13 with an unknown male, possibly a lemon scented Columbian.

The original G13 I've had was food like tasting with a tiny hint of pine and acrid aroma. Its like smoking a turkey gravy joint kinda with a light pine herb crust.

It's funny, i always referred to that smell/subtle underlying flavor as Poultry Spice

 

[q3corn]

I aquired some G13 x 88G13HP seeds from someone this year. They said they didn't know which G13 it was they used to cross it, just an extremely potent fat-leaved plant that they've grown as a clone for nearly 20 years. I suspect "which G13" wasn't even a question 20 years ago in the scene.


I hadn't realized there was question about multiple G-13s. This thread is fascinating minus the name calling

 

[Tynehead Tom]

well for my part.... I have no clue who's garden spawned the original G13 Hashplant line.... don't much care either. It serves nobody today regardless.
What I have always understood , which seems painfully obvious as you read this thread..... There are two different lines.... North American G13 Hashplant and on the other side of the pond..... G13 Haze.
I have always understood that these two lines are only similar in name.
you guys can carry on aruing about it but again.... it really serves no one.

 

[J-Icky]

NL5 actually has Hawaiian in it, not Thai.

And that “Hawaiian” was of Thai origin. But at this point it doesn’t even matter.
If it’s a plant you like and enjoy does the story behind all it’s pieces even matter
All that should matter is that those pieces were put together and now you have something you enjoy.

 

[Tynehead Tom]

And that “Hawaiian” was of Thai origin. But at this point it doesn’t even matter.
If it’s a plant you like and enjoy does the story behind all it’s pieces even matter
All that should matter is that those pieces were put together and now you have something you enjoy.

It need only matter to those who's breeding reputations depend on the accurate recording of the work they do and the background of the genetics they claim to have used.

 

[Overlook]

G13

G13

Hi, all

I thought I could add some history to help back hempy's point.
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock.
Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss)
One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had,
by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level!
As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport".
In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn
clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica.
It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank.
G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's)
G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice)
G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses.
Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of
breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.)
Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's
Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was
part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any of mel's books.)
For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's
Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt
and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know


Not sure where it was pirated first

Tex

 

[RoyalFlush]

Hi, all

I thought I could add some history to help back hempy's point.
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock.
Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss)
One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had,
by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level!
As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport".
In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn
clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica.
It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank.
G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's)
G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice)
G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses.
Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of
breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.)
Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's
Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was
part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any of mel's books.)
For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's
Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt
and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know


Not sure where it was pirated first

Tex

Another great fairytale

 

[clearheaded]

funny saying a low yeilding plant exact opposite of what its suppost to pass on mostly bulk no terps. any g13 x i have had is always higher end yeild... not 800 g per m like dgt 2 litre coke buds of his s1 lol but still

 

[clearheaded]

It's funny, i always referred to that smell/subtle underlying flavor as Poultry Spice

had g13Xcheese plants and ya very different weird savory, wouldnt say sage smell nor cheesey. but very dif smell, may be same your talking about. maybe its more of organ meat/gravy metalic savoryness.

say sage cause thats the main smell of poultry spice.

 

[CannaT]

Hi, all

I thought I could add some history to help back hempy's point.
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans. A couple of the plants intro'd early into both programs brought a near fatal vunerabilty to grey mold. Both programs had to backtrack while new afgans were found to replace the culled plants, as well as beginig an extensive tourure testing program for the remaning stock.
Sandy had a group of friends, growers who lived in his area (S.Ark-N Miss)
One of these friends was a grower, and first year botany student who had,
by shear accident, landed a job working with Carlton Turner , who ran the US gov. pot program @ U of Miss. Sandy's friends job? using the early,rather primitive tests they had at the time to test Afganica plants for THC level!
As Sandy's Early Girl program in the MW and the Skunk#1 people in Cali were on a desperate search for Afganicas. Sandy enlisted his friend to send him anything "interesting". Sandy's friend sent him 23 plants in all, and to differetiate these from his regular Afgani stock, which he labeled A1, A2 etc., Sandy designated his "government" plants G1-23. None of these were used in any Sacred Seeds breeding program. Sandy saved only a very few of these G clones, among these was G-13. He was to busy and never had a chance to do anything with it, so it stayed on the shelf. But he saved it knowing it was a special plant, a "sport".
In its pure form it was apparently not very pleasant smoke, tasting like lawn
clippings, soaked in a mixture of urine and feces (fecal flavors are common in pure afganicas) with a lovelly aftertaste of burning tires. The shear power could not be denied however and that's what made the strain's rep. As I sayed, G-13 was a breeders plant, (see MJ Botony p70) for a description of a sport but basically it's a plant that shows benificial mutations which can be passed down to the next gen. In the case of G-13 it was a scraglly plant with lowish yields, but it had the desirable trait of massive resin production. So much so, that if you let it go to long it could supposedly choke itself. Some sativas can do this, what Shanti calls the "Widow" sport is an example, but it's very rare in an indica.
It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden. Nevil returned to Holland and made three crosses with G-13 @ the Seed Bank.
G-13x Haze (in catolog only 1 yr, discontinued, no extent P1's)
G-13x Hashplant (discontinued, currently Sensi Seeds: mr nice)
G-13x Skunk#1 (last and, according to Nevil, the best of the G crosses.
Nev gave Shanti the last of this stock. Shanti, after suffering alarmingly low germ rates initially from the 20 year old seeds, put them though a number of
breeding cycles and you all lucky bastarts are beta testing the results.)
Sandy Wienstein passed away in 1987. If you have the '88 edition of Mel's
Indoor Guide, then you have Mel's wonderfull euligy to his friend.(Mel was
part of the upstate NY group, which was a sattelitte of Sandy's midwest group. Mel and Co. were not breeders but the ran beta grows for Sandy's Early Girl proj. Just look pic's captioned Durban poison x Afgani in upstate NY from any of mel's books.)
For those who don't have this vintage edition, just turn your copy of Mel's
Deluxe MJ grow guide to the back cover. The guy in the red pendelton shirt
and the long hair and shades, Thats Sandy. You owe him more than you know


Not sure where it was pirated first

Tex

You are trying to say that someone keep cuttings 10 years from mid 70's to late 80's ahahah funny boy.

 

[therevverend]

You are trying to say that someone keep cuttings 10 years from mid 70's to late 80's ahahah funny boy.

Keeping any strain for more then two or three years isn't easy but any particular reason why it was more difficult in the 70s and 80s? I know those were primitive cave man times but indoor lighting was cheap and plentiful same as today..

 

[Dubai]

G13

G13

P.S. No more than a few weeks after Sandy's death in 1987, all of Nevil's G-13 cuttings went down, including safety clones he had kept in remote places. The plants just wilted and died, despite the best efforts made to save them. No cause was ever found As for the f2s well they cant be f2s mate becouse if you or eny one researchet things ( just stateing facts nothing personal clips as your a good guy and you know i respect you) people whould know that the last ever x of the G13 clone Nevile had ( the only g13 clone in the industry at that ) the g13/sk seeds shanti was given were f1s as they came from Nevile who used the sk male over the G13 clone before it was lost ( Sed to be the best X useing the G13 of all neviles g13 hybreeds as it exprest itself best in this x sed by nevile )so that makes what ever people are makeing and passing around far from f2s and with out knowing what to select for there takeing the line further from what it should be so maybe why there getting more sativa phinos in there generations wich are not f2s mate .

I am only talking for my self here i would never speek for shanti and as i do research things and its all there for people to work out also for them selfs if they wont to mate but im thinking few did becouse if people did they would know shanti selected us the testers to give an honest report be it good or bad on the test strains and as a collective type group help each other and shanti with these strains like they do with flowers like rose clubs or even people working together to save old wold fruiet and veggys who are scated around the world yet work together as a collective group. jesse turner still shared cuts with others[canadian,univerity of washington,ohio and cple others] but there is only one g13 and nevil owns it .now the chance to be assosiated with others on the net very slim and doubtfull with the info nom has posted clears alot up .before ya speak read and investigate i put plenty of information up in breeding forum on the closed post to support what ive said. Nom de fleur my sentiments are the same as muggles as 20 plus years here growing and im a 3rd generational my family has been in growing since before the 40's .i cant wait to enjoy and try shanti's and nevils good works till then enjoy and ill chat ya later clips more info to be considered canada's conection to miss research Did you have a relationship with Dr. Carlton Turner?s research group at the University of Mississippi?

Indeed we had cordial relationships with Dr. Turner and the Mississippi group for many years, exchanging information and keeping each other abreast of developments. As you know, after his work on Cannabis Dr. Turner went on to occupy the prestigious position of Domestic Policy Advisor to the president of the US. We used a Mexican strain supplied by Dr. Turner to grow a large supply of standardized medicinal marihuana in Ottawa for Canadian use. Climatic conditions in Mississippi and Canada are of course different - a longer, hotter, drier situation in Mississippi, and this resulted in the plants in Mississippi tending to be taller, with much more leaf fall, leaving the remaining younger leaves with higher THC content on the plants. Nevertheless, morphological and chemical characteristics tended to be comparable between the two Who directed that the Agriculture Canada Ottawa Cannabis farm be started and what was your initial mandate?

As noted above, cultivation of Cannabis was initiated by two Canadian federal ministries, Health Canada and AAFC, for the purpose of clarifying a number of botanical issues, and to grow a standard supply of medicinal marihuana. A 3 acre plot was established in 1971 in the main agricultural research area in Ottawa, known as the Central Experimental Farm, where both high-THC and low-THC forms were cultivated. This was in a rather open location, and elaborate security measures proved necessary. After 1971, it was decided to conduct cultivation in Ottawa only in more secure indoor areas, and this lasted until 1979. Outside of Ottawa, hemp has occasionally been grown outdoors at various AAFC stations across Canada in recent years, but currently cultivation is entirely on the private property of cooperating entrepreneurs. I am cooperating in research on hemp, both in the field and greenhouse, but the research sites are not in Ottawa. Our current mandate is to assist the private sector in conducting commercially oriented research on low-THC Cannabis, i.e. industrial hemp.

How did you obtain seeds for the Ottawa Cannabis farm? Curiously, it was easier to obtain seeds of Cannabis for research purposes in the early 1970s than it is today, and by 1971 I had accumulated in excess of 400 different stocks of seeds. The United States Department of Agriculture supplied dozens of samples, but today informs inquirers that it has none. Similarly it is also increasingly difficult today to obtain hemp seeds from some other seed banks. In my early research I concentrated on means of distinguishing drug and non-drug strains, and numerous police forces around the world cooperated in supplying seeds from confiscations. Today the emphasis is on non-drug strains, and it is necessary to have a reasonable indication that imported seeds are non-drug. And of course, with the recent realization that hemp is an extremely promising crop for which seed collections are critical for future breeding, many private seed collections are available only on a cooperative developmental basis. I was not aware of the Canada connect to Turners proj. BTW according to the way I heard the story, the G plants were not the result of a U of Miss breeding program but point of origin P1 afgans bing tested for later use. Sandy's buddy's job was to make the most crude tets for THC level, he fownd this particular wierdo that tested off the chart. e passed it on to his friend and the rest is history. I don't claim anything I state here as absolute fact, in fact part of the reason I posted this here was to try and spark exactly this kind of conversation, one I think is long overdue. I very much hope that you all can/will check me on the facts and if anybody has any additional info on any matter related to these old lines, please feel free to add, even if only to debunk some myth that "I" might without knowing it, be carrying forward . As far as this tale is concerned, there are three people still alive and in the public domain so to speak, who can confirm or deny any or all parts of this post Those being: Mel Frank, Who was Sandy's close friend. Nevil who also met him personaly. and of course our own Shantibaba, in whom Nevil has entrusted to steward the last remains of this plant into the future. Shanti also has dir. access to both Nev and Mel F I was no more than a fring dweller on the edges of this seen back then. Barely a grower and certainly no breeder. Just a snotnosed skate grommet who was enlisted by a friend's older brother to assist with harvest and trim. a year or so later , when my friends and I started to drop some seeds in the ground it was this guy who mentored us.

We would later find out that said older bro was himself being mentored by an even older grower who had close enough connections to the Sacred Seeds bunch to be "on the list". That is to say, this guy was one of probobly less than 1000 people total who ever was sent the Sacred Seeds catolog of seeds(a pic of the '81 list is in 25 yrs of HT p.85)It was from these two that I first heard these story's and over the years , articales published in the varios pot rags of the day, especially those my either Mel or Connissuer R tended to confirm the story and also kill the odd myth or campfire story. I was close enough not just to ctch a contact high, but to sample things that most people only get to read about. Only now, in hindsight do I realize just how lucky I was to simply be born in the right place at the right time and know the right people. My only porpose here is to both share and gain information for the bettrment of the whole community. So if nothing else, I'm glad I got some folks talking.

 

[clearheaded]

thank dubai

 

[Indicas]

 

[William76]

A nice g specimen right there!,76

 

[Dime]

Does anyone out there really know? I did my masters thesis in graduate school on Cannabis and studied the Mississipi reseach project extensively. I reviewed other studies that attempted to maniputlate the thc levels in cannabis, and the suggestion that a cutting escaped from the lab violates reason and logic for anyone that has actually studied their experimentation.

It is categorically false in every sense to assert that this could be the origin. ALL cannabis grown by MSU was terribly inferior with 2% levels of Thc. Any cutting from the govt program would have been crap, just as it is today. Researchers that get permission to study cannabis complain about the quality of their samples.

What is the real story? Where did it first appear and wonder what the genetics are?

Put any letter before 13 and it's just as convincing.

 

[Dime]

When a mommy plant and daddy plant love each other very much...

Not only did I hear the G13 story way too many times, I had it confirmed from Dutchgrown while visiting Amsterdam some 7 years back. To get there, I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style of the time.

I don't know about G13 but one time when we were teens a buddy couldn't grow facial hair so we talked him into rubbing an onion on his face every morning before school to stimulate hair growth for almost the full year,he still carries the obvious nickname today.

 

[Rgd]

more info to be considered canada's conection to miss research

in Ottawa 1972-1973. .,.before..? I forget....I was at Pestallozi College visiting some one and people there had made a raid on

the Gov grown weed and came back with garbage bags..it was mid september

one guy was from Cali and into cutting[way back then]

and said he was gonna get stuff back there..dunno how

there’s more to it and him mentioning letters and numbers..but i won’t go there

because the mind can trick the memory..

 

[Nannymouse]

There were a bunch of G13 and crosses that were traded back in the early 2000's. I've sampled many of the crosses. I am a little surprised at the mentions of G13 being a skunk cross, i could sure not detect any skunk or evidence of there being a sativa of any sort in the ancestry...although the word 'skunk' is/was so 'generic' at that time. The only cross that wasn't peanut/garlic/burnt rubber was the stoneybaloneyg13, of those that i sampled. The most garlic and nasty flavor was from G13 x NL2, which after trying one pheno, i gave away the seeds that were left.

Most all of them had the effect on me, that i had to be near something soft and supportive, like a couch or bed, because a good hit would actually make me have to hold on to something, or just lay down for a moment. That first wave was really something, but after a minute, i was able to function.

The '88' discussion was interesting. It could have been from describing the pheno that was in the book done in 88, that's sure something that i've not thought about. I was also thinking that the '88' could refer to being backcrossed to the 'f3' generation, like with Cinderella's 'C99', maybe? Although that would only be possible, i think, with one of the crosses.

Another thought is that if there was a seed lot that was taken to Europe, and the 'original European G13' was from that...what happened to the other seed from that lot?

Doesn't really matter much to me, one way or another, what the 'origin' was. Mysteries are fun. It is a useful family of Cannabis.