The Search for Trip Weed

[ThaiBliss]

Ladies in Waiting

Ladies in Waiting

I mentioned the repotting of the two Jamaican Ganja gals. Here they are waiting for the flowering cabinet to free up. The Red Hair (Destroyer Red Hair Pheno X Fire Fox Tail) is also waiting. She is on the right side.

ThaiBliss

 

[Thule]

Well, well... I had a quick look at that publication (thanks BTW!) and I have to say:
Thule, you got it all wrong . Naw, just kidding, it's only the part with hops.

I'm not sure about that. The whole thing is a bit of a pita to read but I'm quite sure they sequenced both nuclear dna and chloroplast dna from the cannabis sample. The key sentence: "The high level of sequence similarity also indicates the authenticity of the aDNA."


It is also the researchers' conclusion that there might have been gene flow between the two species: "Considering these factors, it can be said that there may be a possibility of gene transfer between C.sativa and H. japonicus in ancient times though Humulus lupulus L. forms a different line."

Anyway let's continue this some where else so we won't clog the thread with off topic.

Thaibliss, out of all the plants I've seen you grow that Zamaldelica x malawi appeals to me the most! I hope it's as good as it sounds.

 

[Gert Lush]

What does everyone else think about Sativa vs Indica. Do they deserve to be considered separate species?

No, of course not.
Whereas the differences may be quite pronounced when comparing, say, a Thai with a Mazar, it's not quite as simple in the rest of the world, and the boundaries break down. African weed is a good example, and even Asia has quite broadleaf "sativas" like e.g. Burmese.

The actual nomenclature is in fact a load of rubbish, just stoner lore. Who the hell came up with the idea of calling good weed "sativa", anyway? ALL cannabis is cannabis sativa, including hemp, and sativa only means "tamed", or "domesticated". I think that the sobriquet "indica" was added to Hindu Kush broadleafs to distinguish them specifically, i.e. "cannabis sativa indica". I believe the sobriquets "afghanica" and "kaffiristanica" have also been used historically, though not much any more.

Perhaps someone saw how our favourite narrow-leaves looked a bit like hemp, and decided to call them "sativa" too. Or maybe it was just the use of the official name without the "indica" qualifier. But that equates it to hemp, so perhaps not.

If anything, it's the broadleaves and Afghans that should (by rights) be called "sativa", since they are more "tamed". Himalayan jungli is wild, untamed, yet we'd call it sativa... LOL Some of the tall narrow bitches I've grown wouldn't really be called tame by anyone....

 

[JamieShoes]

loving this thread..

 

[ThaiBliss]

Some of the tall narrow bitches I've grown wouldn't really be called tame by anyone....

 

[Gert Lush]

Thai is warrior weed for me, except I call it coca weed lol, its an upliftment, but an aggressive and expansive one, as opposed to something that turns you inwards.

Yes, I know just what you mean, mate, although I'd add a little qualifier:
Coke tends to make people stupidly aggressive, obnoxious, over-confident (for not much reason) and downright bombastic.
Good "warrior weed", I find, while massively boosting confidence and courage, has a really thoughtful and altruistic nature to it. You may do something risky, but it will generally be for a good purpose, and you will not act like a cnut while doing it.

 

[Rinse]

Yes, I know just what you mean, mate, although I'd add a little qualifier:
Coke tends to make people stupidly aggressive, obnoxious, over-confident (for not much reason) and downright bombastic.
Good "warrior weed", I find, while massively boosting confidence and courage, has a really thoughtful and altruistic nature to it. You may do something risky, but it will generally be for a good purpose, and you will not act like a cnut while doing it.

Definateley, I guess its like saying a heavy indica is "opiate like",
when in fact its far better for the body than opium (except maybe in cases of needing ope's immediate pain killing properties?)

Joan Bello in her book describes the autonomous nervous system and how indica is more parasympathetic while sativa tends to be more sympathetic.
The parasympathetic state is conducive to rest, eating, cleansing of toxins, and sexual arousal.
While the sympathetic state is a stimulated, fight or flight mode.

So I guess coke and some sativas both evoke the sympathetic state and its here we experience the similarities

 

[ThaiBliss]

As I understand it the Ace Congo, which contains Bangi Congo, Congo 3 and PCK, wasn't used in Bangi Haze.
The Bangi Haze is Bangi Congo x Nepalese, however silver haze (or some kind of haze) was crossed into it early in the breeding stage, apparently now only a small percentage of the haze remains.
The Bangi Congo I think originally came from LMN.
The Congo 3 comes from a sailor who collected many sativas on his journeys

Bushweed and Rinse,

Thanks for the information about the Bangi Haze genetics. That spurred some investigation of the Super Silver Haze strain, and I found this:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3747104&postcount=37

This smoke report in the link posted above mentions strong auditory hallucinations. I have mentioned auditory perception enhancement several times in my posts about Bangi Haze, twice in this thread alone.

First here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6167338&postcount=54

Also more recently here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6295536&postcount=203

I'd say Bushweed and more specifically Rinse are very likely correct about the Dutch hybrid genetics in Bangi Haze. However, the Super Silver Haze traits are part of what makes Bangi Haze qualify as a trippy weed, in my opinion. I love it when the puzzle all seems to fall into place.

I'm excited about how one of the outdoor Bangi Haze seedlings is looking. It has much skinnier leaflets, more jagged serrations, lanky, and taller than the others that are growing and the ones I grew indoors. I'll take some pictures when it gets a bit bigger and has another set of leaves to look at. I'm hoping that an individual with mostly Bangi Congo and Haze recombination of genes is expressing itself.

Bushweed - I may spend an inordinate amount of time assessing morphological characteristics than you might. I believe the only true test is the effects experienced after smoking. But, due to the limits of the number of plants that I am able to grow, I have a strong desire to see if I can make selections or predictions of highs based on morphological clues. I don't believe it can be done with accuracy, but I also believe I can increase the chances of making a selection with the effects I want based on morphological characteristics. For instance, the particular Bangi Haze seedling with the narrow leaflets and jagged serrations is likely, I believe, to be one of the ones that ripens later than the others. Let's see, come October, if this is the case.

ThaiBlliss

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

It is a wonderful spring day in Southern Oregon. The smell of spring flowers, tick brush and Madrone trees, is thick in the air. The forest and meadows are bright green with new growth.

...And so is my outdoor crop of Bangi Haze and NepalJam. I can't help showing them off.

I just spread these out into two racks of pots because they were crowding each other. I like starting plants in these long and narrow pots so that when I transplant, some of the roots are deep in the soil and are more resistant to drying out before the roots get established. I also like a small pot to match the volume of roots. I find that frequent cycles of drying and watering make the plants grow faster. I use very light soil, and water between 1 and 3 times per day. I lose that ability to push them hard when they go in the ground, but by then the summer heat comes on and they handle the heavier soil very well.

Mother nature has cooperated and we have gotten these plants to start growing at a fast pace. A safe date, to avoid frost, for planting outdoors is about May 7th in our area. They are in a greenhouse now most of the time, except for days when I'm at home and can move them to a sunnier spot for hardening off. I don't think these plants are going to last that long in these little pots. I may have to plant in the ground as early as next week, or transplant into larger pots if I don't want to break their stride.

Here are some close-up shots. The Bangi Haze are in the foreground, and the NepalJams are in back:

Here is a close-up of one of the Bangi Haze:

This is the lankier Bangi Haze with the most narrow leaves. Its leaves kind of unfurled are not looking so narrow anymore:

I love spring,

ThaiBliss

 

[Betterhaff]

^^ I love those pots/potholders…where did you get them? They almost look like a forestry pot system. Thx.

 

[RandyCalifornia]

I'll bet those tree systems came from Stewy and Sons, am I right ThaiBliss?

 

[ThaiBliss]

^^ I love those pots/potholders…where did you get them? They almost look like a forestry pot system. Thx.

Betterhalff,

They are a forestry pot system. I have seen Fir and Sugar pine trees grown in these for forest replanting. I believe they are called Deepots. I used to hike into the woods with an army surplus rucksack with one of these racks in it. I would grow the plants big enough to fill the pots with a solid root ball, then I'd cut the plants back so they would fit in the rucksack without getting damaged. Perfect starts for guerrilla gardening. Twenty plants would fit in the backpack/rucksack. They worked great!


ThaiBliss

 

[ThaiBliss]

I'll bet those tree systems came from Stewy and Sons, am I right ThaiBliss?

I believe I bought them more than 30 years ago from some greenhouse/growers supply company out in Cave Junction or Selma. I remember it looked like someone's homestead way out in the boonies. I couldn't find it again if my life depended on it. Come to think about it, it may have been a yard sale, but I remember extensive greenhouses there.

 

[Betterhaff]

Thx, I did find some pots at Stewy & Sons. I like the rack, it looks sturdy. Guerilla gardening is what I do.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Tip:

If you try to grow 20 plants in the rack until they get big enough to de-pot with all roots intact, they will be too close together and will get mold. Only pack them together for the hike.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Looks like the wine bottle rack at IKEA .
Wonder where I could get such a thing in Europe... (not the IKEA stuff but the pots LoL)

 

[bushweed]

Hi TB,
I always like your posts and enthusiasm. I would also like to hear how your Nanan-Bouclou and Zamalawi are going.

Bushweed - I may spend an inordinate amount of time assessing morphological characteristics than you might. I believe the only true test is the effects experienced after smoking. But, due to the limits of the number of plants that I am able to grow, I have a strong desire to see if I can make selections or predictions of highs based on morphological clues. I don't believe it can be done with accuracy, but I also believe I can increase the chances of making a selection with the effects I want based on morphological characteristics. For instance, the particular Bangi Haze seedling with the narrow leaflets and jagged serrations is likely, I believe, to be one of the ones that ripens later than the others. Let's see, come October, if this is the case.

I remember Tom Hill discussing in reference to potency how one plant in a set of f2 progeny with for instance red stems might be the most potent in a set, but the red stems was not necessarily indicative of potency. In other words it's hard to make associations based on morphology, because there are so many characteristics at play and only those genes that specifically relate to potency determine potency. This may be the case with leaf shape and flowering times as well. I agree it seems common sense to think that the narrower leaf strain will flower later, however I know that my Nimbin Purple sat has very narrow leaves and yet flowers faster and earlier than some wider leaf strains. Anyway it's a good prediction and we'll see in October.

I think your aim is to marry either a Bangi Hz or NepJam to something longer flowering and trippier so that you can finish it outside in Oregon. If so I think you're providing some real inspiration and instruction for the many (I'm sure there's many), growers young and old who wish to not only flower a sativa outside in a temperate climate, but to breed a near full sativa that can flower outside in a temperate climate, from existing commercial strains without relying on Afghani/Pakistani genetics. Like I said it's going to be an instructive journey.

I think your short flowering sat doms look great. I'm actually pretty fond of sat doms, a 3 hour happy, positive, vibey high is nothing to sniff at. And then to explore the possibility of adding an extra dash of trippy magic and power to the high is a noble quest indeed.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Hi TB,
I always like your posts and enthusiasm. I would also like to hear how your Nanan-Bouclou and Zamalawi are going.

Hi Bushweed,

I just got finished harvesting both strains. Most of the Nanan-Bouclou is dry enough that I have to start being careful that I don't dry it too much. I did some clean up trimming of the buds, removed from the stem and placed the buds from a screen and into a closed paper bag. This will slow down the drying a bit. I took down the last branch that I was letting get extra ripe. I may be smoking it as soon as next week. The "Zamalawi" got chopped and is drying over a screen so air gets all around it. The Jamaican and Red Hair is in the flowing cabinet today!

I remember Tom Hill discussing in reference to potency how one plant in a set of f2 progeny with for instance red stems might be the most potent in a set, but the red stems was not necessarily indicative of potency. In other words it's hard to make associations based on morphology, because there are so many characteristics at play and only those genes that specifically relate to potency determine potency.

I swear, over and over again, I see children or grandchildren, or great grandchildren that occasionally pop up and look very much like one of the parents, grand.... etc.. Not only does it look just like one of the ancestors, it has the high of that ancestor. Those genes just seem to want to organize back up together like they were in the past. If you think about all the genes that are responsible for so very many different traits, the odds of this happening are astronomical. But I believe I have seen this happen more than a few times. I don't know what to make of it given what I have been taught at school, but there it is.

I think your aim is to marry either a Bangi Hz or NepJam to something longer flowering and trippier so that you can finish it outside in Oregon. If so I think you're providing some real inspiration and instruction for the many (I'm sure there's many), growers young and old who wish to not only flower a sativa outside in a temperate climate, but to breed a near full sativa that can flower outside in a temperate climate, from existing commercial strains without relying on Afghani/Pakistani genetics. Like I said it's going to be an instructive journey.

I think your short flowering sat doms look great. I'm actually pretty fond of sat doms, a 3 hour happy, positive, vibey high is nothing to sniff at. And then to explore the possibility of adding an extra dash of trippy magic and power to the high is a noble quest indeed.

I hope I have luck with breeding, but I may have just as good luck finding one that already exists that way. I'll only find one if I keep growing strong strains and early good quality strains, breeding them, and searching... always searching.

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. It is as enjoyable as your pictures.


ThaiBliss

 

[Bob Green]

Hey ThaiBliss any word on an early smoke test with the Nanan Bouclou, and Zamalawi?

 

[ThaiBliss]

Hey ThaiBliss any word on an early smoke test with the Nanan Bouclou, and Zamalawi?

Not yet, but soon.

First, I want to document the flowering cabinet before the bending and tangling that is about to happen. The lankier Jamaican with the fatter leaves has internodes twice the length of the relatively bushy Jamaican, and lanky is almost to the top of the cabinet. Still no pistils thrown, but both Jamaicans have seemed to bounce around between male and female looking flower structures. They both now look mature, so I'm hoping they make up their minds, one way or another.

The bushy one is on the left, and lanky monster is on the right hand side:

It is hard to see because I have mirrors in the cabinet, so it looks much more crowded and confused than it really is. I don't want to take them out, because they have a sprinkler in the pot, and I'd be tearing roots every time I would remove and put back in.

Here is a close up of a branch of the bushier and thinner leaved Jamaican:

This looks like it is starting to knot up and look like a flower might form, but still not a pistil to be seen.

It is also hard to get good pictures also because of the mirrors. I Want to try and keep my face out of the photos I post.

I did manage to get one good picture of the top of the lanky monster. I like this picture, and I'm glad to have it before this gets bent over. I never know how that will turn out. I have broken them off on occasion:

One last picture, since I don't want to leave out the Red Hair plant. This thing seemed to be in auto flower mode for a long time in the veg cabinet. It's roots were not really ever restricted much, so it appears to be very sensitive. It is going to be a tangled mess of buddage. I just have to keep thinking... it is the quality and potency of the smoke that counts.

The lanky Jamaican monster is the beauty queen, but it may not produce much.

If all three turn out female, I might have to do some chopping back of each of them so it does not get too crowded and moldy in there.

Happy Growing,

ThaiBliss