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The ripe banana method to get more females.

bigman420

New member
100% females from even bag seed. meet ethephon.

100% females from even bag seed. meet ethephon.

i would advise against trying the banana method, or at least don't use organic nanners

I changed the peels every other day like, and the bag every day, had the peels wrapped in thick paper towels, and the seeds on a packet of silca (the freshener stuff). got powdery mildew. suspected on day 6, confirmed and exposure terminated early day 7.

will be spraying plants at week 3 or 4 of veg with ethephon and a surfacent (Penetrator by Dutch Masters). should convert any potential boys into ladies (and he was a she...). just need to make sure that this stuff won't hurt me before i do it, but should sprout 10 for 10 fems out of reg seeds. w00p.

like above, the science is simple. know how fem'd seeds are made? by exposing a female to anti-ethylene agents such as CS, thus turning innies into outies. how did breeders come up with this? might have been the data yielded from exposing cannabis to ethephon, which converted male flowers into fems. these fems could be reverted back by exposure to CS or other anti-ethylene agent (gib....) to males.

what does this likely mean?
sex is probably close to 50/50 in seed, but hormonal changes, such as exposure to the plant's female hormone, can compensate for natural hormonal levels and trick a plant into thinking it is another sex. Ethephon breaks down directly into ethylene, cannabis's female hormone.

but before we all go spraying our plants 3rd week of veg with Florel (R) we should double check that this stuff isn't going to kill us.
I have included the health info i could find below,
-big

-found info:
-wikipedia:
Ethephon is the trade name of a plant growth regulator (basic manufacturer Rhône-Poulenc). Upon metabolism by the plant, it is converted into ethylene, a potent regulator of plant growth and maturity. It is often used on wheat, coffee, tobacco, cotton and rice in order to help the plant's fruit reach maturity more quickly. In cotton, which initiates fruiting over a period of several weeks, ethephon is used to make all bolls open simultaneously in order to enhance harvest efficiency.

Although many environmental groups worry about toxicity resulting from use of growth hormones and fertilizers, the toxicity of ethephon is actually very low, and any ethephon used on the plant material is converted very quickly to ethylene.

and from Oregon State: http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/ethephon.htm
TRADE OR OTHER NAMES: The active ingredient ethephon is found in a variety of commercial herbicides. Trade names for products containing ethephon include Arvest, Bromeflor, Etheverse, Flordimex, Flordimex T-Extra, Cerone, Etherel, Chipco Florel Pro and Prep (223, 316).

REGULATORY STATUS: Ethephon is a general use pesticide (GUP). Check with specific state regulations for local restrictions that may apply. Products containing ethephon carry the Signal Words "Danger", "Warning", or "Caution" depending on the product (223).

CHEMICAL CLASS: organic phosphorus compound / ethylene generator / plant growth regulator

INTRODUCTION: Ethephon is a plant growth regulator. Its use varies with plant species, chemical concentration, and time of application. Ethephon regulates phases of plant growth and development by application to various growth sites (1). It is currently registered in the U.S. for use on apples, barley, blackberries, bromeliads, cantaloupes, cherries, coffee, cotton, cucumbers, grapes, guava, macadamia nuts, ornamentals, peppers, pineapples, rye, squash, sugarcane, tobacco, tomatoes, walnuts, wheat, etc. (1, 223, 207). Ethephon's mode of action acts via liberation of ethylene, which is absorbed by the plant and interferes in the growth process (1). It is also used in the acceleration of ripening of fruits and vegetables (302). Ethephon comes in RTU (ready-to-use), emulsifiable concentrate and aqueous solution formulations (223, 316). It may also be used in combination with Terpal (with mepiquat-chloride) and Terpal C (chlormequat-chloride) (223).

TOXICOLOGICAL EFFECTS

* Acute Toxicity: The amount of ethephon that is lethal to one-half (50%) of experimental animals fed the material is referred to as its acute oral lethal dose fifty, or LD50. The acute oral toxicity of ethephon in rats ranged from 3400 mg/kg (313) to 4229 mg/kg (242, 223, 302). Acute animal toxicity studies in a few species show that via the oral and dermal routes, ethephon is relatively non-toxic except in hens. An acute study with rats showed an oral LD50 of 1.6 g/kg (EPA toxicity category III). An acute dermal study using rabbits showed a dermal LD50 of greater than 5 g/kg (EPA toxicity category III) (315). In a rat study, ethephon was administered by gavage for 13 weeks to 20 rats per sex per dose level at 0, 50, 100, and 200 mg/kg/day. Plasma cholinesterase and brain cholinesterase activity were found to be different from the controls at all dose levels. However, red blood cell cholinesterase activity did not differ from the controls in either sex of any dose group (315). The acute oral LD50 of 24% ethephon solution in propylene glycol for rats was reported to range between 3,400 mg/kg (RTECS, 1985) to 4,229 mg/kg (Hartly and Kidd, 1987) (302). The dermal LD50 for the same 24% solution for rabbits was 5,730 mg/kg. Irritation of mucous membranes in rabbits was also reported. The same study indicated that the inhalation LC50 for rats was greater than 5 mg/l of air (1, 242, 313). EPA reported the acute oral LD50 to be 1.6 g/kg for rats; the acute dermal LD50 for rabbits to be greater than 5 g/kg; and the primary skin irritation score for rabbits to be 6.75 (corrosive) (316). The oral LD50 for mice fed technical ethephon was 2850 mg/kg; 5,000 mg/kg for rabbits; 4,200 mg/kg for guinea pigs; and an unreported 4,200 mg/kg for mammals (313). In a dog study, ethephon was administered in the food to 4 dogs per sex per dose level at 0, 5.0, 25.0, or 187.5 mg/kg/day for 13 weeks. Plasma cholinesterase activity was depressed in both males and females at all dose levels. Red blood cell activity was depressed in the males (at all dose levels except 5.0 mg/kg/day at 8 weeks) and at the 25.0 and 187.5 mg/kg/day dose levels in the females. Brain cholinesterase activity was significant only in females dosed at 187.5 mg/kg/day (315).
* Chronic Toxicity: A chronic toxicity/oncogenicity study using Swiss albino mice included 85 mice fed diets containing 0, 4.5, 45, or 150 mg/kg/day of ethephon for 78 weeks. Inhibition of plasma cholinesterase activity was significant at the 45 and 150 mg/kg/day dose levels in males and females. The No Observable Effect Level (NOEL) for plasma cholinesterase activity is 4.5 mg/kg/day for both sexes and the Lowest Effect Level (LEL) for this effect was 45 mg/kg/day for both sexes (315). There appeared to be a dose-related decrease in red blood cell cholinesterase activity in females. There was significant depression in RBC cholinesterase activity at the 45 and 150 mg/kg/day dose levels, while females in the 4.5 mg/kg/day dose groups exhibited depression in RBC cholinesterase activity at 52 weeks and 78 weeks, which was not considered statistically significant. Because of the apparent dose-related decrease in RBC cholinesterase activity in females in the 4.5 mg/kg/day dose group, the NOEL for this effect in females is considered to be below 4.5 mg/kg/day, the lowest dose tested (315). RBC cholinesterase activity was nominally decreased in males at the mid- and high-dose groups. Brain cholinesterase activity was not different from control values at any dose level in males or females. In two-year feeding studies, rats receiving greater than or equal to 12,500 mg/kg diet showed no ill-effect except at top dose levels toward the end of the trial (242). The highest dose without adverse effects reported in rats was 375 mg/kg/day for 90 days (1).
* Reproductive Effects: A developmental toxicity study was conducted on New Zealand white rabbits. The doses tested were 50, 100, or 150 mg/kg. The teratogenic NOEL was greater than 50 mg/kg/day (LDT or lowest dose tested). The number of litters at termination of the study were insufficient to determine teratogenic effects at the 100 and 150 mg/kg/day levels. The embryotoxic NOEL was 50 mg/kg/day (LDT); an increased average number of resorptions occurred. The maternal toxic NOEL was 100 mg/kg, while the maternal LEL was 250 mg/kg (HDT or highest dose tested); decreased body weight, food consumption and increased mortality occurred at this dose level. The fetal toxic NOEL was reported to be 50 mg/kg/day. The fetotoxic LEL was 100 mg/kg/day, at which decreased fetal viability was reported (314). In another study, doses of 0, 200, 750, and 1,500 ppm of 39% ethephon were tested in a multigeneration rat reproduction study. The NOEL was reported to be greater than 1500 ppm (highest dose tested) (314).
* Teratogenic Effects: The NOEL for rat teratogenic effects is 600 mg/kg/day, while in the rabbit, the NOEL was reported to be 50 mg/kg/day based on fetal resorptions at higher dose levels tested (314, 316).
* Mutagenic Effects: Ethephon studies in Salmonella typhimurium indicated no mutagenic effect up to 1,000 micrograms/100 microliters, without enzyme activation (316).
* Carcinogenic Effects: A carcinogenicity study was conducted in mice using 70.6-72.1% ethephon. The doses were administered in feed at 0, 15.5, 156 or 1630 mg/kg/day to CD-1 mice for 78 weeks. No dose-related evidence of carcinogenicity/oncogenicity was reported (314).
* Organ Toxicity: No information currently available.
* Fate in Humans and Animals: No information currently available.

ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS

* Effects on Birds: Data indicate that technical-grade ethephon is slightly toxic on an acute oral basis to bobwhite quail, and slightly toxic on a subacute dietary basis to bobwhite quail and mallard ducks. The acute oral LC50 in bobwhite quail is from 596 to 804 mg/kg. The acute oral LC50 is 3,750 ppm for mallard ducks and greater than 2,160 ppm in bobwhite quail. The average acute oral toxicity for formulated products is greater than 10,000 ppm in bobwhite quail, or practically non-toxic (315, 316). Another source reported the oral LD50 for bobwhite quail to be 1,000 mg/kg (242). The chronic toxicity LC50 for birds was reported to be 804 mg/kg for quail and 3,750 ppm for ducks (223); and the LC50 (8 days) for mallard ducks was greater than 10,000 mg/kg diet.
* Effects on Aquatic Organisms: Laboratory and field studies indicate that ethephon is slightly toxic to fish. Studies indicated LC50 values for fish of 170 mg/l for rainbow trout; and 180 mg/l for bluegill sunfish. Also, a 96-hour LC50 for rainbow trout ranged from 254 mg/l to 350 mg/l and for bluegill sunfish 222 mg/l to 300 mg/l (Worthing and Hance, 1991) (1, 242,316).
* Effects on Other Animals (Nontarget species): Two studies using ethephon were conducted in humans. In the first study, some symptoms characteristic of anticholinesterase activity were observed. Five humans of each sex were dosed with ethephon at an average dose level of 1.8 mg/kg/day. Subjects receiving the test compound reported the following symptoms and/or signs; sudden onset of diarrhea or an urgency of bowel movements, stomach cramps or gas and increased urgency or frequency of urination, and either an increase or decrease in appetite. None of the control subjects had complaints similar to the test group. Plasma CHE and RBC CHE activities were similar to or higher than initial values in test subjects (315). In the second human study, 10 humans of each sex were administered ethephon at 0.5 mg/kg/day for 16 days, followed by a 2-week recovery period. Dose related effects occurred in plasma cholinesterase activity, but not in red blood cell cholinesterase activity. The effect was reversible within 15 days. When the control group and test groups were compared, the decreased plasma cholinesterase activity was statistically significant. No dose-related effects were seen in hematology, blood chemistry, or urine analysis. Based on this study, the NOEL for plasma cholinesterase inhibition in humans is less than 0.5 mg/kg/day (315). Ethephon usage has resulted in four cases of skin injury (irritation) reported from 1980 through 1986 in California due to exposure to field residues (315). Ethephon is considered relatively non-toxic to honeybees (1, 315).

ENVIRONMENTAL FATE

* Breakdown of Chemical in Soil and Groundwater: Ethephon was found to have low to moderate mobility in soils ranging in texture from loamy sand to peat and silt loam based on soil thin layer chromatography tests. Therefore, the potential for contamination of groundwater appears to be low to moderate (315). In soil, rapid degradation to phosphoric acid, ethylene, and chloride ions was reported (Hartley and Kidd, 1987) (1, 302).
* Breakdown of Chemical in Surface Water: No information currently available.
* Breakdown of Chemical in Vegetation: In plants, ethephon rapidly degrades to phosphate, ethylene, and chloride (1, 315). Ethephon and the ethylene gas it produces are the major metabolites in plants (315). Residues of monochloroacetic acid may be found in ethephon-treated commodities. Monochloroacetic acid is a potential degradation product of an impurity in ethephon, monochloroethyl ester of (2-chloroethyl)-phosphonic acid (315).

PHYSICAL PROPERTIES AND GUIDELINES

Physical Properties:

* Appearance: colorless solid
* Chemical Name: 2-chloroethylphosphonic acid (IUPAC, CA) (1)
* CAS Number: 16672-87-0
* Molecular Weight: 144.5
* Water Solubility: readily soluble in water
* Solubility in Other Solvents: readily soluble in methanol, ethanol, isopropanol, acetone, ether and other polar organic solvents. Slightly soluble in non-polar solvents such as benzene and toluene (1)
* Melting Point: 74-75 degrees C (165-167 degrees F) (1, 242, 313, 314, 302)
* Vapor Pressure: <10 to the minus 7 mbar at 20 degrees C (1); 7.5 x 10 to the minus 5 mmHg at 20 degrees C (302)
* Partition Coefficient: Not Available
* Adsorption Coefficient: Not Available

Exposure Guidlines:

* ADI: 0.05mg/kg b.w.
* MCL: Not Available
* RfD: 0.005 mg/kg/day
* PEL: Not Available
* HA: Not Available
* TLV: Not Available

BASIC MANUFACTURER:

Rhone-Poulenc
P.O. Box 120142
T.W. Alexander Drive
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709
 
Last edited:

JWP

Active member
Weedman Herb said:
So if I feminize my seeds using this method on a Stable IBL or Landrace derived hybrid I will get 30% Male 15% true female and 55% Intersexed trash plants? What if used Pure genetics untouched by Dutch, American, Spanish, Swiss, British, Canadian etc... etc seedbanks and seedbreeders?

This method wont feminize seeds.
Those figures are estimates. The only real way to tell is to grow a large number of the seeds and stress the plants to force them to express any intersexual tendencies then you will have accurate an ratio of males,females & hermies.
Its an assumption that the IBL's/Landraces/Pure plants dont allready have a dominant allele with intersex gene. The only way to know for sure is to test the progeny with stress.
Thats not to say that all the intersex plants are trash. But i wouldnt use them. You can grow intersex plants as females without them expressing their intersexuality. Most of the time you wont even know these plants are intersexed untill some stress come into play in the grow and they throw nannas.

hamstring said:
I am not sure that is correct. In nature many times a female or male will change if enviromental conditions call for it. Its not as easy as saying it is predetermined or set in stone. My 2 cents.

Its not the males or females that change, its the intersex plants. They may look like females but if you stress these intersex plant they will reveal that they are actually hermies and have been the whole time but only expressed the trait once the enviroment called for it.
 
M

moses224

Have friend that uses this method and has 100% sucess rate. hes been doing for years. Deffianately worth a try
 

Jedi

"Madam, Miss Otis regrets, she's unable to lunch t
ICMag Donor
J20C said:
This seems to be a very interesting concept to contemplate.

My question would be then, that does compost 'stop' composting once it begins to be used?

If not, then wouldn't the compost itself still be giving off ethylene?

BTW, if my chemistry is not incorrect, if you were to smoke any ethylene, the ethylene would be reduced to CO2 and H20. Same thing in any combustion reaction.


Now this is very interesting.....!!

In the early days i used to plant my seeds in grass cuttings..
and i was amazed by how many females i got..

Perhaps there's some truth in your compost statement...... :joint:

btw...i got some banana peels in a container here..
cant make up my mind weather i should try this method.....mmmm
 
Last edited:

MobbDeep

Member
Ive used this method..100% females..i only used it one time,and this time..but the plants are still seedlings..i think we should get a test from all the ic mag growers with fresh seeds..and FINALLY have an exact anser..does it work..
 

Clackamas Coot

Active member
Veteran
BTW - besides bananas, tomatoes are heavily exposed to ethylene gas to ripen them since they're picked green. Depending on point of origin and ultimate destination, some produce wholesalers 'gas' the tomatoes during transit under specific temperature levels.

I don't believe that it works having exposed seeds inside a 'ripening room' at a wholesale produce house in town.

YMMV

CC
 
Tried this method with over 100 quality seeds, ended up with 65% females approximately. If it weren't for bad purps seeds, ratio would be a bit higher.

Doesn't look like it did much as a 60-75% female rate is normal. It may have helped out 5% or so, who knows? It didn't make a noticeable impact on the grow, that is for sure.

Results based on 1 week treatment with one bunch of extra green banana peels.
 
G

guest1ab

"How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie rollie lollipop?"
 

Tonygreen

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
hey Rodney i remember using ethylene tetra diamine acetic acid.which increased the female ratio.
i found that while i had no hermies through this technique ,
i would advise agaainst this if breeding.
i produced a few sets of seeds that were 75 percent males :yoinks:

hehe male reversal ratio spot on ha!
 

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