The Return of Debtors' Prisons

[Hash Zeppelin]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jailed-for--280--the-return-of-debtors--prisons.html

Jailed for $280: The Return of Debtors' Prisons

How did breast cancer survivor Lisa Lindsay end up behind bars? She didn't pay a medical bill -- one the Herrin, Ill., teaching assistant was told she didn't owe. "She got a $280 medical bill in error and was told she didn't have to pay it," The Associated Press reports. "But the bill was turned over to a collection agency, and eventually state troopers showed up at her home and took her to jail in handcuffs."

Although the U.S. abolished debtors' prisons in the 1830s, more than a third of U.S. states allow the police to haul people in who don't pay all manner of debts, from bills for health care services to credit card and auto loans. In parts of Illinois, debt collectors commonly use publicly funded courts, sheriff's deputies, and country jails to pressure people who owe even small amounts to pay up, according to the AP.

Under the law, debtors aren't arrested for nonpayment, but rather for failing to respond to court hearings, pay legal fines, or otherwise showing "contempt of court" in connection with a creditor lawsuit. That loophole has lawmakers in the Illinois House of Representatives concerned enough to pass a bill in March that would make it illegal to send residents of the state to jail if they can't pay a debt. The measure awaits action in the senate.

"Creditors have been manipulating the court system to extract money from the unemployed, veterans, even seniors who rely solely on their benefits to get by each month," Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan said last month in a statement voicing support for the legislation. "Too many people have been thrown in jail simply because they're too poor to pay their debts. We cannot allow these illegal abuses to continue."

Debt collectors typically avoid filing suit against debtors, a representative with the Illinois Collectors Association tells the AP. "A consumer that has been arrested or jailed can't pay a debt. We want to work with consumers to resolve issues," he said.

Yet Illinois isn't the only state where residents get locked up for owing money. A 2010 report by the American Civil Liberties Union that focused on only five states -- Georgia, Louisiana, Michigan, Ohio, and Washington -- found that people were being jailed at "increasingly alarming rates" over legal debts. Cases ranged from a woman who was arrested four separate times for failing to pay $251 in fines and court costs related to a fourth-degree misdemeanor conviction, to a mentally ill juvenile jailed by a judge over a previous conviction for stealing school supplies.

According to the ACLU: "The sad truth is that debtors' prisons are flourishing today, more than two decades after the Supreme Court prohibited imprisoning those who are too poor to pay their legal debts. In this era of shrinking budgets, state and local governments have turned aggressively to using the threat and reality of imprisonment to squeeze revenue out of the poorest defendants who appear in their courts."

Some states also apply "poverty penalties," including late fees, payment plan fees, and interest when people are unable to pay all their debts at once, according to a report by the New York University's Brennan Center for Justice. Alabama charges a 30 percent collection fee, for instance, while Florida allows private debt collectors to add a 40 percent surcharge on the original debt. Some Florida counties also use so-called collection courts, where debtors can be jailed but have no right to a public defender.

"Many states are imposing new and often onerous 'user fees' on individuals with criminal convictions," the authors of the Brennan Center report wrote. "Yet far from being easy money, these fees impose severe -- and often hidden -- costs on communities, taxpayers, and indigent people convicted of crimes. They create new paths to prison for those unable to pay their debts and make it harder to find employment and housing as well to meet child-support obligations."

Such practices, heightened in recent years by the effects of the recession, amount to criminalizing poverty, say critics in urging federal authorities to intervene. "More people are unemployed, more people are struggling financially, and more creditors are trying to get their debt paid," Madigan told the AP.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/08/30/debtors-prison-is-back-and-just-as-cruel-as-ever/

Debtors' Prison Is Back -- and Just as Cruel as Ever

To most of us, "debtors' prison" sounds like an archaic institution, something straight out of a Dickens novel. But the idea of jailing people who can't pay what they owe is alive and well in 21st-century America.

According to a report in The Wall Street Journal, debt collectors in Missouri, Illinois, Alabama and other states are using a legal loophole to justify jailing poor citizens who legitimately cannot pay their debts.

Here's how clever payday lenders work the system in Missouri -- where, it should be noted, jailing someone for unpaid debts is illegal under the state constitution.

First, explains St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the creditor gets a judgment in civil court that a debtor hasn't paid a sum that he owes. Then, the debtor is summoned to court for an "examination": a review of their financial assets.

If the debtor fails to show up for the examination -- as often happens in such cases -- the creditor can ask for a "body attachment" -- essentially, a warrant for the debtor's arrest. At that point, the police can haul the debtor in and jail them until there's a court hearing, or until they pay the bond. No coincidence, the bond is usually set at the amount of the original debt. As the Dispatch notes:

"Debtors are sometimes summoned to court repeatedly, increasing chances that they'll miss a date and be arrested. Critics note that judges often set the debtor's release bond at the amount of the debt and turn the bond money over to the creditor -- essentially turning publicly financed police and court employees into private debt collectors for predatory lenders."


Standing Up for Those Who Can't Pay

The practice -- in addition to putting an additional squeeze on poor people -- turns courts and police into enforcers for private creditors, from payday lenders to health care providers. The situation prompted Illinois legislators in July to pass a bill "to protect vulnerable consumers from being hauled to jail over unpaid debts," in the words of state Attorney General Lisa Madigan. The Debtors' Rights Act of 2012 requires two "pay or appear" court notices to be sent to debtors before an arrest can be made, and also prevents creditors from calling for multiple examinations unless the debtor's financial state has significantly changed.

Many of the victims, Madigan noted at the time, were living on funds that are legally protected from being used for outstanding debt judgments, such as Social Security, unemployment insurance or veterans' benefits. In one case she cited, an Illinois court brought a "pay or appear" order against a mentally disabled man living on legally protected disability benefits of $690 a month. The man told the court of his circumstances but was still ordered to pay $100 a month or appear in court once a month for a three-year period.

"It is outrageous to think in this day and age that creditors are manipulating the courts, even threatening jail time, to extract whatever they could from people who could least afford to pay," Madigan said. "This law corrects that gross oversight and puts a stop to throwing people in jail for being poor while still allowing fair debt collection when people have the means to pay their debts."

Illinois notwithstanding, the modern-day debtors' prison probably isn't going away anytime soon given the current economic climate: More than a third of U.S. states allow borrowers who can't or won't pay their debts to be jailed.

This is all so fucked up I don't really know where to begin. I am just glad I decided the credit system was a trap when I was 18 and to not take part. I suffer a little by having no credit, but in the long run It doesn't matter. My life is actually much better than the majority of people I know that have perfect credit and massive house debt.

I guess the best place to begin is a list of states...

List of states that allow debtors prisons

Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Illinois
Indiana
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Tennessee
Washington

 

[5th]

"a mentally ill juvenile jailed by a judge over a previous conviction for stealing school supplies"

I'm just left thinking WTF?!?

If I'da been in the courthouse and heard that, they'd have left the kid alone...and be hauling me off to jail for beating the shit out of a judge...

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

The world banking society is a debt slave society, set up to turn people in to fascist sheep, impoverished, or be put in prison. There is no denying that we live in a plutocratic feudal system. Democracy and our government do not exist. It is a scripted play.

The playing field is not level, and the only thing that will level it is refusal to cooperate. War can not even solve this issue because the people we are fighting against are the people who finance both sides of all wars already. If there is a violent revolution it is because they planned it. Then they act as our savior by financing our revolution to take out the power that they put into place to begin with. Napoleon knew this.

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."

The middle east, Afghanistan, and Iraq are perfect example. Banks financed us to arm them to fight Russians. Now banks finance us to fight the same people we armed. put Saddam Hussein into power too.

Now the same thing is happening in Egypt. the Arab Spring is just a page on a script written by the heads of the Rothschild banking conglomerate which owns 70 percent of the worlds wealth, and controls 90 percent.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Here is an analogy I like to make to our society,

Picture an American backyard. It has a sand box, and a swing set, and a little covered gazebo for parents to sit under and drink iced tea and enjoy the shade.

Now picture kids in the sand box with a little bag of cookies, and when they get down to the last one they start fighting over it. One kid says "I should get the last cookie you already had 4." That kid answers back "It's not my fault. You should have taken the cookies while they were there." then they continue to bicker back and fowarth.

Meanwhile, in the comfort of the shade, the adults remark on how cute is, as they eat from the whole jar of cookies.

All the kids needed to do was get up and get more cookies from the jar. The problem is the adults wont let them and the kids know it. they have been down that route

Well they could just go bake some. Nope. They dont know how. the adults kept them from learning. If they even try to use the oven they get their hides tanned. They are not allowed to even use cookie dough if they could use the oven.


The kids are the two party system, our government, and every other other government that uses world banks, and thinks they are a sovereign nation
The adults are the world banking conglomerates
cookies are currencies
cookie dough is gold or anything a real currency (non fiat currency) can be based off of.
the oven is any means to make your own currency.

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day HZ

We put Mahmoud Ahmadinejad into power by putting the dali lama into power.

Could you enlighten me on your reasoning here please ? US foriegn policy has had my interest for more than 30 years .

EB .

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

whoops not the dali lama. that's the Buddhist guy lol I meant the Shah. lol. Also I should not say we. I should say western banking conglomerates.the result was the Iranian revolution. U.S. meddling created the situation. World banking Financed the meddling.

that is a side point though the main point was about Husein. With out U.S. federal reserve financing to help fight the Russians and Iranians he would have never gained as much power and weapons. They create these situations like planting a seed of war. 20 years later the seed sprouts, grows, then ripens, and same banks harvest the fruits of war. Even WWI and WWII were like this. The Nazi were financed by the same banking institutions that the U.S. was. The federal reserve banks and European banks were owned by the same family. They engineered the wars to take our resources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution
Iranian Revolution

 

[wantaknow]

hash you couldnt have put it better ,arrest the federal reserve 1st then bush both of them one already has a warrent out for his arrest in the eu or uk,then obama ,get it going now,but the rep are araid he will crash it all if they dont follow his instructions ,which he will do very soon anyways,we are screwed ,damn if you damed if you dont ,just pick your poison

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^Who votes down on your comment and has no comment to back up there opinion? I hate that shit.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

^Who votes down on your comment and has no comment to back up there opinion? I hate that shit.

Either it was accidental "fat fingers" or it was the heartless, the cruel, the arrogant, those who love money.

 

[GoodyTwoShoes]

The rich always want their pound of flesh, and the govt. is doing their bidding by collecting it for them.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^that is called plutocracy and aristocracy

 

[GoodyTwoShoes]

So basically the workers are paying taxes to the govt which the govt spends on locking up the poor who owe money to the rich.
Nice way to spend the workers taxes.

 

[vonforne]

So basically the workers are paying taxes to the govt which the govt spends on locking up the poor who owe money to the rich.
Nice way to spend the workers taxes.

Now you know why they want to take away all the weapons from the citizens...........

 

[Puffaluffagus]

Hey
People should pay their bills
This is becoming a country of complete deadbeats

Look at it from a personal standpoint
Somebody owes you money
You want it, but they're stiffing you, so you take them to court, they blow off the court date, then I expect a bench warrant to be issued for them.

I have no sympathy for deadbeats who start crying when they are finally held accountable for their actions.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^you didn't even read the article. They are doing this to cancer survivors and veterans over medical bills. no one is gonna file bankruptcy over $280 in medical bills. One lady got arrested based on a bill that was not even existent. She was jailed over a paper work slip up. If it is some one who is spending money on flat screens and rims and not paying up then I have no issues with them having the items repossessed. Debtors prisons though are one of the reasons we decided to brake away from British Royalty.

Our entire society is based off debt. To have credit to own a car and home you must take on debt to prove you can spend your life paying debt. If there was no credit system for homes the average home would cost very little compared to what it does now. In fact cost of living would be much lower in general. The credit system is just a leach on society. they make us think it is beneficiary for capitalistic growth, but this is not true. Growth based on debt is not actually growth. it is just a debt bubble.

Anyone with debt is a debt slave. Anyone with out debt is an outlaw or a Banker. Even most bankers are debt slaves to a higher bank because they are so over leveraged. hundreds of millions of people in the USA and Europe are slaves with out even knowing it. If you have to keep a job to pay your mortgage loan you are not free. You are convinced you are free though the illusion of multiple choice.

Be happy to be a debt slave though. You could just be a real slave, like the Mexicans or Chinese factory workers.

to make an analogy to the old south; U.S. citizens are the house slaves, and Chinese factory workers and Mexican farmers are the field slaves.

It's not just mexico and china. the Western world's plutocratic empire has slave colonies all over the globe still, well hidden away from white people and all the "house slaves" back in the homeland.

Americans are like the dumb Nazi fucks that lived down the street from the concentration camps and never wondered what the death stench was.

Slave Labor For Palm Oil Production
http://understory.ran.org/2010/12/07/slave-labor-for-palm-oil-production/

 

[vonforne]

Hey
People should pay their bills
This is becoming a country of complete deadbeats

Look at it from a personal standpoint
Somebody owes you money
You want it, but they're stiffing you, so you take them to court, they blow off the court date, then I expect a bench warrant to be issued for them.

I have no sympathy for deadbeats who start crying when they are finally held accountable for their actions.

sounds like most of the citizens are following the example of the Federal Government.

 

[gaiusmarius]

that's messed up, but not surprising, in this day and age there doesn't seem to be any institutions left that are not involved in some scam or another. i think many businesses wouldn't even survive if they were not on the fiddle one way or another. so why should the judical branch be any different? Judges can be bribed to go along with evil just like anyone else. imagine ordering someone to appear in court once a month over a 3 year period for an unpaid debt of a few k? how fucking ridiculous to convene a court and waste all that money every month, just so some private company can get paid back or get their pound of flesh. talk about madness...

 

[messn'n'gommin']

There is a difference between won't pay and can't pay. The law seems to be blurring the two. The aristocracy got to have their money and calling the shots by making indentured servitude more and more of a reality.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

There is a difference between won't pay and can't pay. The law seems to be blurring the two. The aristocracy got to have their money and calling the shots by making indentured servitude more and more of a reality.

^exactly.

 

[Elmer Bud]

Both sides of the street

Both sides of the street

whoops not the dali lama. that's the Buddhist guy lol I meant the Shah. lol. Also I should not say we. I should say western banking conglomerates.the result was the Iranian revolution. U.S. meddling created the situation. World banking Financed the meddling.

that is a side point though the main point was about Husein. With out U.S. federal reserve financing to help fight the Russians and Iranians he would have never gained as much power and weapons. They create these situations like planting a seed of war. 20 years later the seed sprouts, grows, then ripens, and same banks harvest the fruits of war. Even WWI and WWII were like this. The Nazi were financed by the same banking institutions that the U.S. was. The federal reserve banks and European banks were owned by the same family. They engineered the wars to take our resources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution
Iranian Revolution

The twist to the story that does my head in is .
Ollie North and Co moved Coke out of Sth America.Sold it to Freeway Ricky Ross. Who turned the west Coast onto cheap crack .Diverted the funds from profits, and bought missiles, to trade with the Iranians in a deal to free US hostages. While at the same time the USA is selling arms to Saddam . WTF !! ??

EB .