The re-use of our soil

[jaykush]

After enough 'breakdown', the peat/coco becomes structurally 'weak', and once it gets wet, can't maintain the air spaces under it's own weight. Basically, it's a fancy way to say 'heavy'. If you water str8 perlite, the medium level doesn't drop at all...

this is why its best to replicate real soil, or use real soil. over time the micro organism give off a glue like substance, this holds the soil particles together overcoming that problem and keeping it well draining and aerated, yet still able to hold water. its really hard for them to do that when your "soil" is basically peat and perlite.

thats not to say it cant be done, it just takes more work on your part.

 

[DARC MIND]

After enough 'breakdown', the peat/coco becomes structurally 'weak', and once it gets wet, can't maintain the air spaces under it's own weight. Basically, it's a fancy way to say 'heavy'. If you water str8 perlite, the medium level doesn't drop at all...

i dont find this to be true, when peat/coco or any organic matter breaks down, i believe the soil structure is improved. structure from my knowledge is formed (for the most part) by aggregates, who are formed by soil life.

soil biology

when organic matter (peat/coco, amendments etc) or broken down they should turn into humus (stable & active) and help form aggregates.
this is why good soil organic matter management is key to a thriving living soil, you want to best replicate real soil like jay said. Feed the soil

most real productive soils have high amounts of organic matter, humus and good soil texture for the most part. these all dramatically effect the life in the soil who IMHO are the key player to the structure/health of our soil. they play the most important part to good soil management and when gardening or growing with them in mind, you get the best soil one could ask for.

some perlite, rice hulls, coco husk, peat/coco, vermiculite will help with drainage but so do aggregates.
i can easily go to my recycled soil bin and take pictures of aggregates that form from the breakdown of inorganic, organic matter and other amendments.
These aggregates help from air pockets at the same time retain moister for my soil (and some).
when recycling soil or using well aggregated soil you dont want to water to much, actually you water less then you normally will. when you over water the result is a down word spiral depleting structure, texture, soil life etc..

this is why its best to replicate real soil, or use real soil. over time the micro organism give off a glue like substance, this holds the soil particles together overcoming that problem and keeping it well draining and aerated, yet still able to hold water. its really hard for them to do that when your "soil" is basically peat and perlite.

thats not to say it cant be done, it just takes more work on your part.

recycling soils (along with organic/gardening with microbes) helps us replicate real soil. I for one don’t find it really hard to do with peat or coco
but im sure It may have took more work. its simple really use a nice amount of compost or ewc.
i could be wrong on all of this, this is just my on what i believe is going on....

 

[barletta]

It seemed like when I had a high% of peat and vermiculite (as opposed to fine and chunky coco), the soil needed a LOT of perlite/outdoor compost added to it after it was run a few times to lighten it up. It seems like with a coco base, I have to add a lot less perlite/screened compost.

 

[guest2012y]

I used to use:
1 part perlite
1 part vermiculite
2 parts any good organic soil mix(such as foxfarm)
1 part coco
plus an eyeballed blend of N and P bat guano,kelp meal,worm castings,and mychorizai. I activated the mix with any good trendy activater,then watered in some liquid humic acid.
My drainage and water retention seemed perfect,the mix held water long enough and left room for air.
I've always been concerned about the microbes having enough wiggle room,and assume that the name brand soil mix plus the coco gave them what they need. The plants looked healthy,yielded well,and all I did was water with rain water(ph of 6.9)
When recycling the mix,I added more nutes and I did it in liquid form...that's where I had my ph issues if I had them.

EDIT: That was how I did it for years!...now I'm on a different trip...READ THIS:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=153542

 

[phr3d0m2gr0]

Wouldnt they eat into the fresh roots as well? Wouldnt it be ok to do as i described?

Stay Safe

no worms will not eat the currently growing roots. What you described will work of course, but I don't think it will work as well. Sure adding worms may only provide a marginal increase in soil fertility, but there will be no negatives to adding worms.

@ MrFista

I disagree about forgetting the worms. Microbes are just one part of the living chain that breaks down organic matter, worms are another. The more parts of the chain present the greater the benefit to the plants.

 

[GanjaSnake]

I wonder what people who don't ever re-use their soil end up doing with all that substrate. Maybe pile it in the backyard and tell the neighbors your property has really, really big ants.

Haha, a friend of mine who never reuses his soil keeps them stacked in his backyard. The pile is nearly 20' high right now and close to that around.

Good thing he lives out in the middle of nowhere!

 

[minttu]

I plan on doing 100% organics because ive been getting headaches from the hydroponic grown crap.

Haha, that's a great line Organics is the way to go for me too. I don't stuff my body full of chemicals but plain old food, so why should my plants be any different? Kinda offtopic, so carry on.

 

[medmaker420]

I wonder what people who don't ever re-use their soil end up doing with all that substrate. Maybe pile it in the backyard and tell the neighbors your property has really, really big ants.

I find this funny because if I could take a picture of the dirt in my backyard LOL. It almost looks like it was snowing due to the perlite laying about.

I actually just started building up my compost bin on this last cycle simply because I am sick of buying fresh bags of FFOF and tossing the old stuff in my backyard to do nothing.

 

[Bretonston]

I wonder what people who don't ever re-use their soil end up doing with all that substrate. Maybe pile it in the backyard and tell the neighbors your property has really, really big ants.

i reuse soil from indoor grows and then mix for outdoor that way every year its gone and i get two grows out of one purchase...i add more nutes before reusing

 

[619Sativa]

Once again, sorry if this was already asked and answered, I've only skimmed through this thread as I've been a lot more focused on the Organics for Beginners thred, but I asked a question in that thread, and it might have been more well suited for this thread, so I'm just gonna copy and paste it, and maybe I can get some answers. Thanks in advance.
O.K, sorry if this was already asked and answered, but I want to do the
LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
But want to eventually reuse the soil, and was wondering wether I should do the base in sphagnum peat, coir, or pro moss? I have also been going through the other thread in the sticky library about reusing soil, and if I comprehend correctly, coir is more of a neutral medium, while peat is more acidic, but in that sticky they say not to use peat as a base if reusing soil. At first I was leaning towards peat, but I think coir might suit my needs a little better.
I was also wanting to use the RECIPE #3 (My favorite)
If you want to use guano tea and kelp...

Guano Tea and Kelp:

Seedlings less than 1 month old nute tea mix-
Mix 1 cup earthworm castings into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
Add 5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses.
Use it to water your seedlings with every 3rd watering.

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

But I'm not sure how this recipe would work with reused soil because as I understand it you need to supplement the soil and allow it to sit for a few weeks to few months. In the 3LB recipe, they are using reused soil, but they are adding a bunch of stuff to that
RECIPE #4
Three Little Birds Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That’s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth
But do you have to feed the plants anything else with this mix, or is what is in the soil enough to last? It seems that what you supplement the soil with will feed the plant throughout the grow and all you would have to add is plain water, and maybe some ewc tea?
I'm sorry if none of this makes sense, I'm a hydro guy wanting to make a worth while switch to organic soil, and am trying to get everything planned out in my head the best I can. This is an old ass thread, and I'm glad to see it keepin on. Thanks to all the Mods and Mentors who presented this information, if it wasn't here, I would have never of thought to make the switch.

 

[kingjames488]

I haven't read this whole thread... so sorry if someone has said this.

What i think im going to do with my used soil (and old plant matter) is feed the worms im planning on getting!

just gonna break it up a lil smaller and mix with some other stuff and it should provide some substrate and food for the worms... then will eventually feed my plants again.

I have added a little used soil into the mix the last little while tho and havent noticed any ill effects at all.

speaking of used soil... that seems soooo stupid... hasn't all soil been used at one point?
does walmart (or wherever you get your soil) have a secret soil mine on the moon or something? lol

im gonna stop rambling now...

 

[roomsupervisor]

I compost everything. And I thought Fox Farms sold "soilless" products?

 

[Clackamas Coot]

And I thought Fox Farms sold "soilless" products?

That depends on what one's definition of what a 'soil' is and is not.

In the strictest definition, soil is rotted plant and animal material or worm castings and shattered rock. Other than a very few regional potting soil mixes, you'd be hard-pressed to find a potting soil distributed at a national level that includes 'shattered rock' in the bag (rock dust or stonemeal as it's called in England).

Then again, it's Fox Farms that has come up with an interesting description for their chemical fertilizers - 'based on organic'

Whatever that means. It's not on their labels.

CC

 

[grapeman]

Another question on how to prepare LC#2 with the dry nute (recipe #1) for rest and re-use.

How much dolomite, kelp meal, bone meal, blood meal do I need to add per gallon of soil to bring just used soil back up to par?

Thanks

 

[White-rhino]

Human Urine is 100% organic. I wonder if there is anyone out there who has tried continual re-using soil that was fertilized with Urine.

I guess I will stick with Guano and Blood Meal until I get my grow dialed in.

thanks.

I fertilize my back yard with it at least once a day. I can say from personal experience it kills grass. Would never think of using it on marijuana.

On reusing soil, I wouldn't do it with seedlings, don't want any complications whatsoever on seedlings. Just want them to grow healthy in new (non-Walmart) soil until ready for the first transplant. Shit soil and good soil on seedlings is the difference between inducing flowering in one month or two.

But I see nothing wrong with using recycled soil it after the first transplant, especially if using organic only. I suspect that the organic additives aren't even usefull to the plant until they've been in the soil for about three months or more, which is after the first harvest. And yes, I know they say 1 month, but personal experience has caused me to think the 1 month thing is BS. IOW - completely wrong.

As for continual recycling,, NO. The peat moss breaks down into a fine grained black mess (almost sludge like) after about two crops. I like it to be large particles (not black dust). After two crops it goes out into the yard.

Also - the old roots have colonies of mycorhizae on them, so thats good.

 

[SupraSPL]

I was able to reuse a peat based soil for 3-4 cycles before I started seeing any problems. I was using Age Old Organics liquid ferts but now I have switched to Blue Mountain Organics because I want to try a true living organic grow still using liquid. I know liquids are more expensive but that doesn't matter on a micro grow.

So now the soil is ~20 months and I am not seeing any problems with drainage or sludge from the peat. The only thing I have added is dolomite lime and organic wetting agent. The PH has been cooperative so far.

 

[vonforne]

PH does not matter is all the right components are kept in balance. If you want to use liquids......make your own teas. It can be done with as little as 1 gallon of water and ten dilute. And it is much cheaper than buying them.

Re using your soil is a start. Add some things on your own........Minerals.....Rock Powders, Azomite, Kelp meal, Silica.....etc.

And I like to add organic materials each time I recycle my soil........fresh EWC and or Compost.

V

V

 

[JackTheGrower]

Von is right.

Also compost it with new materials like coffee and rice.

 

[vonforne]

And Alfalfa.....do not forget the Alfalfa!

Speaking of coffee..........I started a new mini worm bin...buckets and added coffee grounds to the top.......I now have a nice growth of mushrooms. Amazing stuff coffee. I used to make this fungal mess from coffee grounds, used coffee filters and oatmeal.

Did you ever see that picture Jack?

V

 

[enter sandman]

I've used the same soil for over a year now. Mind you it is good soil bought at a nursery & it is peat based. I just add some hi-yield agricultural limestone to it every 4 months. My plants look as good as they did when I first bought the soil.