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otherwhitemeat
Don't even ask me how I learned that one!!!!
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otherwhitemeat
Bumpski
So, I'm a few weeks into my whole soil recycling operation and it seems to be working out well. I am toying with ratios right now but mostly am using the 3LB/LC ratios. My goal is to be able to re-use my soil about every 4-6 months. My wife loves it because she was started to get a bit uneasy with all the soil ingredients we were buying. She asked me to go hydro. I told her if she loved me, she wouldn't mention the H word again. ;-)
Disposing of my soil always reminded me of that scene from the Great Escape with Steve McQueen. I would walk out into the yard with a 5G pail at night, filling holes--speading it on the shrubs etc. LOL, can't imagine I never thought to recycle earlier.
So I start with 20 G of used soil in a rubbermaid (nice amount, easy to work with with)
To this I add:
-2 G unused peat (Pro Mix, etc)
-2 G of perlite
-2 cups Dolomite Lime
-10 lbs (about 3 G) of EWC
-2 cups Bone Meal
-1 cup Blood Meal
-1 cup Kelp Meal
-1 cup Jersey Greensand
-Bat Guano leftovers (after making Guano Teas)
Water with LK/water.
To that, I add all of the stems, fan leaves, non-trich containing trim, smoking ashes, root mass etc. All chopped into 2inch pieces. And mix it up real good.
Stir/transfer once a week for 4 weeks and leave in my garage. ALL leaf is gone, ALL roots are gone, just a few stem pieces remain.
At 4 weeks, I ran this all through a compost screen to reclaim any remaining sticks, etc. They go into the next batch.
Another week or so to finish cooking and I've started working this mix through my flower cab. So far, so good. About two weeks into veg and don't need any nutes nor do I have any defs...
So, I'm a few weeks into my whole soil recycling operation and it seems to be working out well. I am toying with ratios right now but mostly am using the 3LB/LC ratios. My goal is to be able to re-use my soil about every 4-6 months. My wife loves it because she was started to get a bit uneasy with all the soil ingredients we were buying. She asked me to go hydro. I told her if she loved me, she wouldn't mention the H word again. ;-)
Disposing of my soil always reminded me of that scene from the Great Escape with Steve McQueen. I would walk out into the yard with a 5G pail at night, filling holes--speading it on the shrubs etc. LOL, can't imagine I never thought to recycle earlier.
So I start with 20 G of used soil in a rubbermaid (nice amount, easy to work with with)
To this I add:
-2 G unused peat (Pro Mix, etc)
-2 G of perlite
-2 cups Dolomite Lime
-10 lbs (about 3 G) of EWC
-2 cups Bone Meal
-1 cup Blood Meal
-1 cup Kelp Meal
-1 cup Jersey Greensand
-Bat Guano leftovers (after making Guano Teas)
Water with LK/water.
To that, I add all of the stems, fan leaves, non-trich containing trim, smoking ashes, root mass etc. All chopped into 2inch pieces. And mix it up real good.
Stir/transfer once a week for 4 weeks and leave in my garage. ALL leaf is gone, ALL roots are gone, just a few stem pieces remain.
At 4 weeks, I ran this all through a compost screen to reclaim any remaining sticks, etc. They go into the next batch.
Another week or so to finish cooking and I've started working this mix through my flower cab. So far, so good. About two weeks into veg and don't need any nutes nor do I have any defs...
M
Mr-B
What a great thread. This gives me a few new ideas.
Thx. B
Thx. B
Depending on condition ,, we often re-use / refresh old soil substrates by mixing them with some fresh compost and plenty of added guano.
Otherwise,, we use 2nd hand coco-fiber (sourced from biological growers) in our soil mixes all the time! this help free up shop bought compost and aids rooting
Otherwise,, we use 2nd hand coco-fiber (sourced from biological growers) in our soil mixes all the time! this help free up shop bought compost and aids rooting
big_daddy
Member
Mycillium/Fungus in used soil
Mycillium/Fungus in used soil
I have been following the soil re-use protocols laid out here, and today I noticed what appears to be a very fine grey/white fungus in one of my totes on the top of the soil.
I turned over a couple of handfuls and can see very fine threads of fungus or mycillium throughout the soil. Is his going to be harmful, or beneficial?
My soil is a Gardner & Bloome Mix, with added EWC, Glacial Rock Dust, DE and an assortment of kelp, cottonseed, fish bone, and alfalfa meals. I applied a tea with EWC, Kelp meal, and 1/2 tsp of pond enzymes to hydrate the soil. All of the old roots are gone, and there is a sweet rich smell from the soil.
I'm just concerned about this fuzz, and is it a potential problem. Any help is appreciated.
big_daddy
Mycillium/Fungus in used soil
I have been following the soil re-use protocols laid out here, and today I noticed what appears to be a very fine grey/white fungus in one of my totes on the top of the soil.
I turned over a couple of handfuls and can see very fine threads of fungus or mycillium throughout the soil. Is his going to be harmful, or beneficial?
My soil is a Gardner & Bloome Mix, with added EWC, Glacial Rock Dust, DE and an assortment of kelp, cottonseed, fish bone, and alfalfa meals. I applied a tea with EWC, Kelp meal, and 1/2 tsp of pond enzymes to hydrate the soil. All of the old roots are gone, and there is a sweet rich smell from the soil.
I'm just concerned about this fuzz, and is it a potential problem. Any help is appreciated.
big_daddy
Alright....i read thru the thread, which is a super thread btw, and im still not 100% positive on what to to....heres my plan:
I grow in a large soilbed with app. 1000 liters/250 gallons of ammended soil. Id like to keep using the same soil, without removing it from the bed. Now thats the point im not sure about....yall keep saying that the right way to do it, is to have 2 portions of soil..one active/in use and one cooking and composting for the next run. I want to keep my soil in the bed and ammend it with more ewc, guano etc., after each crop and then let it sit for a cpl of weeks before planting new cuts back into the bed, thus using the same portion of soil for every crop. Would this present problems? Also...how do i figure out how much new stuff i have to put back into the soil after each grow?
Stay Safe
I grow in a large soilbed with app. 1000 liters/250 gallons of ammended soil. Id like to keep using the same soil, without removing it from the bed. Now thats the point im not sure about....yall keep saying that the right way to do it, is to have 2 portions of soil..one active/in use and one cooking and composting for the next run. I want to keep my soil in the bed and ammend it with more ewc, guano etc., after each crop and then let it sit for a cpl of weeks before planting new cuts back into the bed, thus using the same portion of soil for every crop. Would this present problems? Also...how do i figure out how much new stuff i have to put back into the soil after each grow?
Stay Safe
This, along with the comment about tilling the soil makes sense. When we farm, we go though seasons with perennials, trees or vines, or even different annual crops in the same year during the various seasons. The soil is always the same.... we are just treating it differently at different times of the crop, season or year.
So what Grat3fulh3ad says he does parallels what we do in farming. As a convert to organics from hydro I have been thinking about reusing my soil. rotating a current batch with a resting batch. By giving the soil a rest, root mass can and will decompose. High N in the soil that may be too high for young plants would be a problem if synthetic N is used in high quantities is the only concern that I can see. I have seen high N carry over from year to year in the soil in both synthetic N and manure treatments. But with smart use of Teas, I can't see that as a problem reusing soil with this crop. with proper rest as described above. In fact, I plan on rotating out my soil with every other grow. Makes sense to me.
P
phr3d0m2gr0
I would get some earth worms from outside your house and also get some red wigglers (you can buy these) This will help keep your soil fresh for the plants. Throw these worms in the soil and make sure you feed something to the red wigglers every so often (banana peel, apple core, old tomato's). For that much soil you'd need a few pounds of red wigglers, but you could just get a pound and feed them every few days.
-Phr3
Forget the worms. There should be microbes and fungi a plenty for breaking down your old root mass in finished compost. If you want the benefits of worms add castings there'll be a few strays or cocoons in them anyways and microbes and micros will be present in the castings.
As for the EM recommendation - I'll second that. Brilliant stuff.
As for the EM recommendation - I'll second that. Brilliant stuff.
*bows to this thread's awesome glory*
This thread pretty has pretty much guided me thru soil recycling over the last few years, and I sort of started the same thread at a site w/o a soil recycling thread today Since this thread needs pictures, and I went ahead and took pics of my lil recycling program, I figgured I'd post em here
*Drainage is #1. On the non-weed boards, all that potted plant gardeners EVER talk about with regards to medium is drainage/water retention. If unchecked, the recycled soil DOES 'collapse'.
*Less is more. The happiest plants (best growth) are the ones that generally get the least attention (water frequency/nutes).
*Medium and feed Ph is irrelevant if I have a good humic source in my medium (compost/castings 15%+).
Ok, less talk. Pics or it didn't happen.
Here is the recycle bukkit. I generally let my plants go dry at the end of flower, and put the soil back in here. I pull the root ball, but I leave all of the lil rootey bits and the lil mat of guano/castings/rare earth that builds up from topdresses. In this bukkit, I add a cupful of limestone, and a cup each of bio-tone, and cottonseed meal. Every so often I clean off the floor, and dump the post run trim in this bukkit. If I have it, I will add crabshell to this bukkit too. I feel like the heat of the N breaking down (cottonseedmeal, biotone, fish that I water it all in with) aids the break down of the crabshell. I don't add castings or 'fluffing' material (coco or perlite) to this bukkit. Once I mix everything in, I hit it with a gallon of pee/fish/kelp/molasses (some or all, but in light amounts), and let it sit for ~3weeks. I have a perpetual where I try to pull every 3 weeks, so it works out ok.
Here are bukkits #1 and 2. #1 is the bukkit that I use for the pots. I mix up these bukkits so that they are ~equal. This ensures a gradual change in the overall mix. To these bukkits I will add castings, perlite, and if I have it, kelp meal. OK - I have ~90 gallons of mix there. If I pull 20 gallons of mix out of bukkit #1 on the next transplant, I will add 10 gallons from bukkit #2, and add (approximately) ~7gallons of recycled soil to each #'s 1 and2, along with perlite, castings, etc... Now the 2 bukkits are still equal, even if slightly different than the 20 gallons that I pulled (if that makes any sense...). I really only water these in with molasses, and they rarely 'heat up'.
Here are the dry amendments that I use. I don't generally have everything on hand. Usually, I use up the RE, crabshell, and kelp meal; and have the lime, biotone/cottonseed meal, guano, and plant success. On a rotating soil package, I'm cool with running out for a lil bit...
Here are the last 2 stages of castings before they get to my soil/plants. The blue box is 'active' aged castings that haven't had any food added in over 4 months. The clear box is castings that I pulled out, and pulled any worms or sticks that I could find.
Here is the 'working' worm bin. It gets coffee/filters, bananas, and eggshells.
Here are the bottles that end up in my mix. The EJ and Maxicrop fish only end up in trace amounts in the bubbled teas.
I feed teas or kelp/molasses and water. I can't remember the last time I gave these bottles in any signifigant amount. Generally, a tea is 1 gallon of water, ~1/2 cup of castings, a lil kelp (prolly less than 1/2 teaspoon), a tablespoon of fish hydrolysate, and lil drop of molasses. I'll cut it anywhere from 5:1 to 3:1, and I'll add a lil molasses or kelp to the final mix now and then. Every plant in soil gets at least 1 water of plant success soluble by itself.
I feed teas up to the last ~2 weeks of flower, then straight water. I like to topdress with castings/guano/rare earth early in flower, and just castings later in flower.
I'm real happy with the results, and wanna thank all of the people that contribute(d) to this thread and to this forum in general
This thread pretty has pretty much guided me thru soil recycling over the last few years, and I sort of started the same thread at a site w/o a soil recycling thread today
Since this thread needs pictures, and I went ahead and took pics of my lil recycling program, I figgured I'd post em here *Drainage is #1. On the non-weed boards, all that potted plant gardeners EVER talk about with regards to medium is drainage/water retention. If unchecked, the recycled soil DOES 'collapse'.
*Less is more. The happiest plants (best growth) are the ones that generally get the least attention (water frequency/nutes).
*Medium and feed Ph is irrelevant if I have a good humic source in my medium (compost/castings 15%+).
Ok, less talk. Pics or it didn't happen.
Here is the recycle bukkit. I generally let my plants go dry at the end of flower, and put the soil back in here. I pull the root ball, but I leave all of the lil rootey bits and the lil mat of guano/castings/rare earth that builds up from topdresses. In this bukkit, I add a cupful of limestone, and a cup each of bio-tone, and cottonseed meal. Every so often I clean off the floor, and dump the post run trim in this bukkit. If I have it, I will add crabshell to this bukkit too. I feel like the heat of the N breaking down (cottonseedmeal, biotone, fish that I water it all in with) aids the break down of the crabshell. I don't add castings or 'fluffing' material (coco or perlite) to this bukkit. Once I mix everything in, I hit it with a gallon of pee/fish/kelp/molasses (some or all, but in light amounts), and let it sit for ~3weeks. I have a perpetual where I try to pull every 3 weeks, so it works out ok.
Here are bukkits #1 and 2. #1 is the bukkit that I use for the pots. I mix up these bukkits so that they are ~equal. This ensures a gradual change in the overall mix. To these bukkits I will add castings, perlite, and if I have it, kelp meal. OK - I have ~90 gallons of mix there. If I pull 20 gallons of mix out of bukkit #1 on the next transplant, I will add 10 gallons from bukkit #2, and add (approximately) ~7gallons of recycled soil to each #'s 1 and2, along with perlite, castings, etc... Now the 2 bukkits are still equal, even if slightly different than the 20 gallons that I pulled (if that makes any sense...). I really only water these in with molasses, and they rarely 'heat up'.
Here are the dry amendments that I use. I don't generally have everything on hand. Usually, I use up the RE, crabshell, and kelp meal; and have the lime, biotone/cottonseed meal, guano, and plant success. On a rotating soil package, I'm cool with running out for a lil bit...
Here are the last 2 stages of castings before they get to my soil/plants. The blue box is 'active' aged castings that haven't had any food added in over 4 months. The clear box is castings that I pulled out, and pulled any worms or sticks that I could find.
Here is the 'working' worm bin. It gets coffee/filters, bananas, and eggshells.
Here are the bottles that end up in my mix. The EJ and Maxicrop fish only end up in trace amounts in the bubbled teas.
I feed teas or kelp/molasses and water. I can't remember the last time I gave these bottles in any signifigant amount. Generally, a tea is 1 gallon of water, ~1/2 cup of castings, a lil kelp (prolly less than 1/2 teaspoon), a tablespoon of fish hydrolysate, and lil drop of molasses. I'll cut it anywhere from 5:1 to 3:1, and I'll add a lil molasses or kelp to the final mix now and then. Every plant in soil gets at least 1 water of plant success soluble by itself.
I feed teas up to the last ~2 weeks of flower, then straight water. I like to topdress with castings/guano/rare earth early in flower, and just castings later in flower.
I'm real happy with the results, and wanna thank all of the people that contribute(d) to this thread and to this forum in general
Thats what i thought...thanks Fista! And ill look into EM right away..
Edit: I looked into it and it seems i cannot procure EM1 here in Scandinavia. But wouldnt it be just as good if i mixed a cpl of handfuls of dried Bokashi innoculant into the soil after harvest and let it work its magic for a cpl of weeks before planting new clones?
Stay Safe
Wow!!!!!...I have also been recycling soil mixes for years. I have an old recipe using N and P bat guano,kelp meal,worm castings,pyroclay,perlite,vermiculite,coco husk,any good organic grow mix,and mychorizia. When I am poor I remove the soil mix from the pots,remove the bulk of the root leftovers,then do a soil test. I then add liquid amendments in the needed amount throughout the next cycle. Alaskan fish,a bat guano tea of N or P,and maxicrop do just fine! Nice to hear all the other ways you folks work it out....cool!
no Em1 but you can get inoculated bran? that's silly.
I'm not sure which organisms remain in the bran. If it's mostly lactic acid bacteria, you could make your own serum, which is cheaper and probably better.
On the other hand if EM bran retains the full consortium, go with your plan. The fermented bran is an aphrodisiac for worms, by the way.
J
JackTheGrower
The decomposition process goes on all the time in soil.
We can simply add more greens and browns and fire up any soil to "Recycle"
It is as simple as that..
I always add an array of materials such as azomite and bone meal, green sand and what not at the same time..
We can simply add more greens and browns and fire up any soil to "Recycle"
It is as simple as that..
I always add an array of materials such as azomite and bone meal, green sand and what not at the same time..
MJ and JTG: Thanks alot guys...i kinda figured before i even asked the question to begin with...like you say Jack..decomp goes on all the time...i figured if i add organic material it would more or less take care of it self. Aiding the process with EM etc is just helping out and refining the end result. Only thing now is, how to figure how much blood, bone, kelp etc i should add after each harvest..
Stay Safe
Stay Safe
If I take a container of soil, and add water to it sort of fast, does the medium level dramatically drop as it hydrates/runs through? I THINK that the science behind it is that the medium is made of many lil air pockets that the roots need. After enough 'breakdown', the peat/coco becomes structurally 'weak', and once it gets wet, can't maintain the air spaces under it's own weight. Basically, it's a fancy way to say 'heavy'. If you water str8 perlite, the medium level doesn't drop at all...
I thought that I read somewhere that wood fiber holds up better than peat? I just scored a SHIT TON of hardwood sawdust and bark that I can start to rotate thru my compost piles (then soil) this spring. Dood down the street uses nothing but wood to heat the house, and doesn't burn pine. He told me that I can have all the scrap I want come spring.
GDK, for adding back, what I do is add back the 'available nutes' (blood, guanos, kelp, chickenshit) at ~50%, and I wait a long time to start to add back the slow release stuff. For me it's crabshell, cottonseed meal, and lime (for you prolly greensand, bone, etc..). I prolly add back nutes at 1/2 the recco'd rate, and prolly like 10% strength of B1's listed mixes, but I supplement with teas/bottles/topdresses in flower.
I thought that I read somewhere that wood fiber holds up better than peat? I just scored a SHIT TON of hardwood sawdust and bark that I can start to rotate thru my compost piles (then soil) this spring. Dood down the street uses nothing but wood to heat the house, and doesn't burn pine. He told me that I can have all the scrap I want come spring.
GDK, for adding back, what I do is add back the 'available nutes' (blood, guanos, kelp, chickenshit) at ~50%, and I wait a long time to start to add back the slow release stuff. For me it's crabshell, cottonseed meal, and lime (for you prolly greensand, bone, etc..). I prolly add back nutes at 1/2 the recco'd rate, and prolly like 10% strength of B1's listed mixes, but I supplement with teas/bottles/topdresses in flower.
