The Origin Of Cannabis

[ramse]

We may never no for sure, but I can't help but think that Cannabis originated closer to the equator. Perhaps sub-saharan africa or southern asia. I find it likely that Cannabis pre-dates the end of the last ice age and was able to spread north as the ice sheets moved north. It makes less sense, to me, that it was some sort of tundra plant that just appeared out of nowhere and started adapting to warmer climates.

genetic studies of cannabis sativa samples found in the Chinese region of Xinjiang, would have highlighted a European-Siberian origin

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226663991_Results_of_Molecular_Analysis_of_an_Archaeological_Hemp_Cannabis_Sativa_DNA_Sample_from_North_West_China

Right off the bat I found this great picture.

https://www.thecannachronicles.com/i...s-garden-1915/

beautiful picture

the photo comes from the photographic archive left by Peter Naglič, a soldier stationed at the castle of Ljubljana, with a supervisory role
At the castle the Italian prisoners were destined to forced labor in the most disparate tasks, carpenters, peasants, etc...

 

[romanoweed]

funkyhorse
can you make a smokereport from the wild Manchurian Planzs you harvested? Im interested how high the Potency of wild Plants can be! Cause we all want the old Landraces back, so couldnt we just start from Scratch? take wild Plants , probably select them and get Gold..? I mean, was there this calm Quality, wich These 70s Stuff had (atleast thats what i experienced, just having Peace) ? what you think, how far are thay from old 70s Landracs, just guess.

 

[Donald Mallard]

We may never no for sure, but I can't help but think that Cannabis originated closer to the equator. Perhaps sub-saharan africa or southern asia. I find it likely that Cannabis pre-dates the end of the last ice age and was able to spread north as the ice sheets moved north. It makes less sense, to me, that it was some sort of tundra plant that just appeared out of nowhere and started adapting to warmer climates.

i live in a mountainous region of the tropics ,
we get temps below zero in winter ,
i witnessed some sativa plants survive minus 10 degrees c ,
where everything else died around them ,


my thoughts were a plant can adapt to heat better than cold , try moving tropical plants where they dont belong and they dont adapt very well , ie bananas , papaya , etc ,
but the other way around , from cold to warm they do ok ..



i think it came from a cold , or mountainous location to survive the temps i witnessed it survive in ..

 

[Roms]

Emperor Shen Nung

@originsgenetics :

The ancient history of the cannabis plant begins in Taiwan and China, and is both fascinating and shrouded in a bit of myth and mystery. Historians and researchers aren’t entirely positive about some of the dates or how historical events exactly were recorded in ancient China, and a number of similarly named mythological and legendary figures are credited in stories as having invented or created some of the same early technological innovations, as well as sharing some similar heroic feats they accomplished in China’s oldest folklore tales. There are some differences of opinion amongst archeologists and anthropologists, but generally they agree on the basic timeline and earliest records, and the fossil record is hard evidence that helps to fully illustrate the rich history of cannabis in ancient Chinese culture. Hemp cord in pottery was discovered at an ancient village site dating back to 8000 BC, located in the area of what is now modern day Taiwan. 2000 years later in 6000 BC, there is evidence that cannabis seeds and oil were being consumed as a food source in China, and 2000 years after that, in 4000 BC, hemp was being used to create high quality Chinese textiles.

Not long after that, historically speaking, legend says that in 2737 The Mythological Emperor Shen Nung first used Cannabis as a medicine. Shen Nung is considered by some to be the Father of Chinese Medicine, and by others to be a higher deity, Culture Hero, and God Farmer, and was said to be horned, ox headed, and bronze skulled.

​

 

[Roms]

"Cannabis is indigenous to Europe and cultivation began during the Copper or Bronze age a probabilistic synthesis of fossil pollen_studies"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324974651_Cannabis_is_indigenous_to_Europe_and_cultivation_began_during_the_Copper_or_Bronze_age_a_probabilistic_synthesis_of_fossil_pollen_studies​

 

[ngakpa]

The origin of Cannabis is most likely northeastern Tibet, around Qinghai, about 32 million years ago
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00334-019-00731-8

It reached the western steppe (Europe) about 6 million years ago


I recommend checking out the new McPartland and Small study on ssp. indica too
https://landrace.blog/2020/04/14/mcpartland-small-publish-new-cannabis-taxonomy/

John and Ernest are both good friends of mine, that said neither paper has conclusive proof that Tibet was the Cannabis place of origin, it is only educated speculation.
I would like to think John is correct but he has not proven the pollen was Cannabis instead of Hops. Until then we just are not sure.
-SamS

 

[ngakpa]

@Sam_Skunkman

Thanks for the note - yes, fair enough, makes sense to flag that

fwiw, I put "most likely" instead of IS for basically the same reason, but that nuance might get missed

I think McPartland makes a strong case for why his proposal is more likely than Yunnan though!

I also think his method for differentiating Humulus from Cannabis is persuasive

(I've seen wild-type Cannabis growing in forest in Nepal but they weren't happy plants, and they were on the edge of a path)

 

[Montuno]

...

 

[Roms]

My Atao theory according Austronesian spread...

 

[mexcurandero420]

My Atao theory according Austronesian spread...

When I take a look to the map, then it was the Indonesians who brought it to India, according to your theory?

 

[mexcurandero420]

Large-scale whole-genome resequencing unravels the domestication history of Cannabis sativa

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abg2286

 

[flower~power]

[No message]

 

[flylowgethigh]

2500 yr old potent pot? I just dumped into a batch of butter a bunch of GG4 I had left over from my last pot buy, a little over a year ago.

The stuff has been found in chinese graves/tombs from that far back in time. Back in the bible daze too. I can see caveman hunter-gatherer back then foraging around and coming across a very terpy plant. "Hmmm, that smells good! Oog like". Gets high and makes the scratch drawings on the cave walls.

 

[Roms]

When I take a look to the map, then it was the Indonesians who brought it to India, according to your theory?

"Indo" "Nesians" connection but origin coud be more "Nesian" i mean more South East Asian and Oceanian... ?

 

[mexcurandero420]

Ya "Indo" "Nesians" connection but origin coud be more "Nesian" i mean more South East Asian and Oceanian... ?

I read in Indonesian papers that ganja was brought to Atjeh by traders from Gujarat India in the 14th century.Later on again by the Dutch in the 19th century as insect repellent in the coffee cultivation against caterpillars.

 

[Roms]

Ya that's about our modern history, antic time and people culture are often under estimated. Proto history is another large circle that also repeat itself. over time. I mean Indian trade 14th can be a comeback centuries after ? Anyway need evidences like fossil pollen,. are SE Asian, Oceanian and Polynesian were really studied closely about fossil pollen ?

 

[Roms]

Large-scale whole-genome resequencing unravels the domestication history of Cannabis sativa

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abg2286

The scientific community need better samples of NLD at start study i think, things like Zamal, Swazi, Mexican.

In my opinion NLD is older than hemp. ?

 

[mexcurandero420]

The scientific community need better samples of NLD at start study i think, things like Zamal, Swazi, Mexican.

In my opinion NLD is older than hemp. ?

Isnt hemp nld then?

 

[gonanchoa]

I would like to add some weather knowledge that helps understand early emigrations from SE Asia to Madagascar:

Near the equator there are predominantly calmer East currents & winds; whereas near the poles which is more dangerous to sail, they are from the west. Just check currents Indian ocean on google.

It explains the ease of sailing to the west near the equator. So it would be much easier for a SE Asian to sail in a "canoe" to Madagascar or a S.American to sail to indonesia than the other way around. Just as Colon did when sailed to america or explains the kon-tiki. To find favorable currents & wind traveling east you need to go near the poles, or at least the tropics where there are storms and is not safe to sail in a canoe.

It is argument against pre-colombian cannabis in S. America imported from E. Asia though.

 

[Roms]

Near the equator there are predominantly calmer East currents & winds; whereas near the poles which is more dangerous to sail, they are from the west. Just check currents Indian ocean on google.
(...)
It is argument against pre-colombian cannabis in S. America imported from E. Asia though.

Hi Gonanchoa, the equatorial trade winds or easterlies are not really permanent, during El Niño all is reversed for example and the same notion for Ocean currents, there's counter-currents associated anyway! That's why Austronesians culture influence can be found in all Pacific islands to Hawaii or Polynesia and even further East to Meso and South America. This common cultural heritage is increasingly recognized by the scientific community nowadays, evidences of migrations from SE Asia through Ocean and not only via the Bering Strait are found with symbols, ceramics, food, boats, chickens... Mexico, Colombia, Ecuador, Perou, Chili, all would have proto or prehistoric cultural connections with Austronesians origins.

So Cannabis scientifics need to be better focused on NLDA fossil pollen than modern samples of NLD or hemp i think.