The Organic Think Tank

[abe23]

bad enough this was argued to be bullshit in this thread but you dindt even bother to read a post to see if you weren't spewing propaganda

ignorance is a choice but let me recap for you

organics is not defined by the soil web making ions available NOT AT ALL

plants absorbing IONS lends nothing to drought resistance but the bacteria that live in the soil that have a symbiotic relation ship with the plant do, the same relationship exist to prevent disease and offer increased vigor.

there are many other relationships that occur in micro environment of the rhizoshere let alone the through out the whole of the plant

just because it can be grown successfully without making consideration or these variables doesn't mean they don't matter or exist

Managing fertility and cycling nutrients is a key part of organic growing. This is why organic farmers plant cover crops and make rotations using legumes. Plants need NPK to grow....they don't need bacteria or fungi, although many of them do, as you say, offer benefits in terms of nutrient uptake, disease resistance etc.

So if you're growing organic vegetables in a field or marijuana in containers in the closet, the availability of nutrients is going to be a bigger concern than microlife. And in the field, that microlife consumed some of the plant nutrients as well, so organic veggie farmers need to take that into account as well.

There is no denying that managing fertility is much more difficult using only organic methods. When it comes to vegetable gardening, I prefer to do a little bit of both, using lots of compost and some manure but also adding synthetic 10-10-10 or something more precise depending on the soil test. So yes, encouraging the little guys in the soil is important no matter where you're fertility is coming from, but if you're plants aren't getting enough nutrients all the bugs, bacteria, earthworms and fungi in the world won't help your plants grow any better...

Also, if you're growing anything in containers, I don't really understand how you can get the kind of microlife you need in the field in order to do truly organic farming without it being a ridiculous pain in the ass...

 

[xmobotx]

Also, if you're growing anything in containers, I don't really understand how you can get the kind of microlife you need in the field in order to do truly organic farming without it being a ridiculous pain in the ass...

the ridiculous pain in the ass of watering once w/ compost tea

 

[whiterasta]

the ridiculous pain in the ass of watering once w/ compost tea

And the unholy ritual of a splash of molasses to keep them fed.LOL
WR

 

[Budsworth]

George W. Bush was a space alien...prove me wrong.

Mariah Carey is actually a man...prove me wrong.

A thousand growers will tell a thousand different ways to grow...all one thousand ways are "the only way to grow"....prove all one thousand ways wrong.

 

[NiteTiger]

OP = noob.

AAAAAAHAHAHAHA

 

[grapeman]

If simplicity is the goal, then you guys have a great deal, Im for it. I do buy organic milk, it tastes better, so taste is the benefit, not the fact that it is organic.

The reason "organic Milk" tastes better has nothing to do with the milk whatsoever. It has to do with the pasteurization process used.

Since there are less "organic" dairies in existence, organic milk is usually shipped FURTHER to markets then non organic milk, thereby demanding longer shelf life.

Organic milk is therefore subject to much higher heat in a unique flash pasteurization process that caramelizes some of the sugars in the milk which gives it a "sweeter" flavor then other milk that is pasteurized at lower temps. This process is different then 95% of all other pasteurization processes that most all dairies use. Other dairies could use this process but since it costs a bit more and is not necessary, they all use the standard pasteurization method which utilizes lower heat and does not caramelize the milk sugars.

If non organic milk was subject to this process, it would taste the same.

It is a common belief that this sweeter flavor results from "organics", but that is completely false.

FACT.

But having said that, I am a farmer that is currently playing around in the organic sandbox as there is much to learn and apply that makes sense.

 

[cannaboy]

Whats the point in growing if its not organic you are just making stuff to kill you from stuff that kills you,, You are a propper gardener when you know whats in your pot,,, the chemically grown shwag all over Ic is poor quality however you see it!!!! regardless of skunk or not!! unless its propper organic it might as well be rat shit poison or a fag!!!
Some serious un educated people round here..

All you people feeding out a bottle are all SHEEP!! ba ba ba.. You cant expect to get good results unless you do it rite..


There's bunch of people here chatting shitty poo about traits they don't like that are there cos they can't do a good enough job of their grow,!!


This thread is full of the chemical bros they know who they are and should be ashamed you learned to grow poison.. Not Medicene

 

[Lazyman]

Nitetiger has been here for 5 years, and has 5485 Posts.

Fannybud has been here for 5 MONTHS and has 19 posts.

Who's the noob?

 

[guest2012y]

This is an eternal debate rearing it's confused and ugly head with a new thread title.

Is too.... Is not! Is too..... Is not!...I'm telling Mom!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

George W. Bush was a space alien...prove me wrong.

Mariah Carey is actually a man...prove me wrong.

A thousand growers will tell a thousand different ways to grow...all one thousand ways are "the only way to grow"....prove all one thousand ways wrong.

Actually GW is only 1/2 alien. GHW is a space alien.

Dna test would prove/disprove the Mariah claim.

Anyone that says "the only way to" is full of shit and should not be listened to.

Organics don't suck, they're great outdoors, especially in fields where annual farming is going to continue. The longer you grow in an outdoor spot, the better it gets when you use proper organics. Organics rock in your veggie garden and for your fruit trees and in your annual 'secret garden spot'.

Indoors refined mineral nutes suit my preferences better, though any one of dozens of other nute regimens or organic builds may suit yours better.

Growing, and life in general, is not a test with a right answer which makes all other answers wrong.


It is worth noting:
N is not organic
P is not organic
K is not organic
Mg is not organic
Ca is not organic.
Without those inorganic minerals plants could not live.
Plants can thrive without any organic compounds.

 

[confused]

I'm too stoned to read anything but the first post, so I'm not too sure where discussion has lead to. Probably everywhere if this is 10 pages long.

Nate's arguments should be given as....

"Organics suck - Here are the reasons"

Its not our job to prove ourselves. Maybe I can make a topic like "Chem Nutes make buds taste bad! Prove me wrong!" .... and I'm like how the fuck do I taste over the internet?

Other than the fact that I'm stoned silly, that is the only proof I can offer for dead fish, bat shit, and worm poop.

 

[cannaboy]

you lazy man are 1 good talker you said that it is just as good but costs more do do rite. Well unless you are 100% legal you should be growing for personal use or not at all, how many people have you poisoned in your life lazy man cos I guess your very lazy and you plants could be killers!!!

Stay away from Lazy mans Killer weed he is a commercial chemical grower,


Who was here first the propper dirt growers ie organics or the shitty scum of the earth promoters,, With stuff you can use when your thick or retarded!!!!!! and fat,, and got most kids into illegal stuff ..

Hydro is real goo way to teach people... Yeah,

Chemicles are only better if you live round the grow cos they don't smell.. But your pot will smell and taste better and not give red eyes or poisoning..Company's earn £$£$ they do not deserve from uneducated growers,, not from me..

 

[here2learn]

i dont know why someone with so many posts would start this thread

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

you lazy man are 1 good talker you said that t is just as good but costs more do do rite. well unless you are 100% legal you should be growing for personal use or not at all, how many people have you poisoned in your life lazy man cos I guess your verry lazy and you plants could be killers!!!

poisoned?? lmao... by using mineral nutes?

 

[Lazyman]

you lazy man are 1 good talker you said that t is just as good but costs more do do rite. well unless you are 100% legal you should be growing for personal use or not at all, how many people have you poisoned in your life lazy man cos I guess your verry lazy and you plants could be killers!!!


Who was here first the propper dirt growers ie organics or the shitty scum of the earth promoters,, With stuff you can use when your thick or retarded!!!!!! and fat,, and got most kids minto illegal stuff ..

Hydro is real goo way to teach people... Yeah,

Chemicles are only better if you live round the grow cos they don't smell.. But your pot will smell and taste better and not give red eyes or poisoning..Company's earn £$£$ they do not deserve from uneducated growers,, not from me..

I don't even know where to begin, but I've been smoking my own weed for years and have never had an issue. As have countless others.

MY grow is 100% legal, yes. Check out my grows in my sig and you tell me I'm lazy? Only if you mean it in a sarcastic sense, which is exactly what my "handle" means to me. I bust my ass to grow outstanding weed, and I devote many hours every day to educating people on this website. I also work a full time job somehow between all of this.

I'm not poisoning people with my weed any more than you are. If my weed is poison then Advanced Nutrients needs to be sued out of existence, and probably a third of the growers on this site as well who also use their products.

You think getting red eyes equals poisoning? Hahahaha! Your eyes get red because smoking any decent weed dehydrates you, hence the cottonmouth and red eyes genius.

Man, you have a lot to learn.

 

[RNDZL]

all ions are simply ions, but there are so many other variables

how were they derived? how where they placed? what are the costs of the derivation? are they irradiated sources? do the the sources of the derived ions impact the micro or macro environment you grow in? are the ions you get and use the byproduct of a earth friendly process? does it matter if your still getting paid?

the one thing no one has commented on both organic or inorganic gardener which is a huge tell of the lack of successfully cross technique growing proficiency is the differential on plant health of beneficial micro organisms

if you have done your proper time growing and controlling a plant in all environments with various techniques there would be the addition of the testimony of the benefit of the use organic beneficial micro organisms in the grow regime.

its no different than adding CO2 to a already perfect grow, you see the results, they are so pronounced you don't need to rely on measurements because the differential is so substantial its not marginal

and growing with Ions lends nothing to the existing biological mechanisms of the plant, that is all the rhizosphere interactions that help the plant adapt to its environment are gone

its like raising test tube babies with no immunities cause as you see it they will never leave the hospital

not that you cant do this successfully, but how does this make it a waste?

healthy active beneficials in the rhizosphere reduce the need for pest and disease control by 2/3s.

see the homogeneous chemically grown crops require the doses of pesticides and disease control because the organic mechanisms that provide that are not there

how do the tenants of gardening change by mere size and scale

should i not want to increase disease and pest resistance to avoid those loses and the use of poisons??

do you think there is not a relative factor to the amount of poisons that we produce? and that if the occurrence of pest infections dropped so would the need for poisons?

we assume that if our plants look healthy to use, and that they smoke well enough for use they are in all intensive purposes perfect, but that perfection is only realized when it is put back into context of how it is assimilated by the environment around it





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open statement to all


heres another statement i cant take anymore

you cant tell the difference in how a bud is grown

k here is why its total bullshit, one of many reasons but id love to start here

cause if you have any time put into this game you will have heard this one

"we both grew the same cuts, same nutes, same systems, but they tasted different"

or am i making that one up?

 

[Lazyman]

I would disagree that a healthy, organic-fed plants is not susceptible to pest attacks. After all, pests look for healthy, sweet and tasty plants to eat. In my organic vs salt grows I usually had MORE mites on the organic side.

Organic grows NEED a wide variety of beneficial bacteria and worms to break down the complex foods that are present in organic soils, because the food is not soluble nor easily absorbed by the roots.

With salt-based ferts we're feeding the most readily-available predigested forms of food we can provide the plant, as indoors we simply have no time for this breakdown and digestion to occur. This seems to be the primary reason organic crops grow slightly more slowly indoors, as it takes time for these chemical and biological reactions to occur.

I know plenty of people remark on different tastes of weed, including in this thread. That your weed tastes fruitier when fed with fruit bat shit doesn't make me want it any more, it makes me want to use Sweet or Molasses or Floranectar to replicate it without tasting another animals feces.

 

[supermanlives]

h ha ha. yeah lazy stop poisioning people. pack up all your product and send it to me for evaluation. LOL

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

h ha ha. yeah lazy stop poisioning people. pack up all your product and send it to me for evaluation. LOL

Reminds me of the old Chevy Chase SNL news update "killer dope" skit. I LMAO everytime I watch it.

 

[Lazyman]

h ha ha. yeah lazy stop poisioning people. pack up all your product and send it to me for evaluation. LOL

Oh alright, but just this once! We'd sure have one stoned Superman!

One of these days I'm gonna stick a QP in a metal colander and hook it to a clean shop vac, light with a big torch and hotbox my entire garage.