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YosemiteSam
Out of curiosity...which one? When I look at how water beads I see something that diffuses light to the plant...not focuses it.
Call me insane...I foliar when it is convenient for me.
I'm right there with you. I think it's mostly myth. But.... to be fair, I do turn my lights down to 60% when I'm doing my thing lights on.
People have called me stupid and blind for not seeing the massive traumatic damage caused by lights on foliar spray.
maybe they be sprayin some difrent shiat ya know? wy zit that all the yungunz be spilling theer wurdz all crazy? 
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Durdy
I've had a neem as well as alfalfa do it.
That being said it might have been the strength of the foliar and not the fact that lights were on.
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Durdy
I thought stomata were open at night, so foliars were best applied right before dawn or a bit after sun down. The idea being they loose less water through transpiration when the sun isn't beating down on them.
Would doing it a bit after sun down or lights off be optimal since the stomata will be open longer than they will a bit before the light comes?
I'll crack my plant bio book out and read up a bit tomorrow about stomata
Would doing it a bit after sun down or lights off be optimal since the stomata will be open longer than they will a bit before the light comes?
I'll crack my plant bio book out and read up a bit tomorrow about stomata
B
BlueJayWay
High temperatures and light intensity is what's usually causing 'burning' when FF during lights on - leaves need to breath and they're trying to breath a lot when its hot and flipping bright so don't choke 'em with a thick neem oil concoction.......FF is best done within ten minutes before lights out so its 1. at optimum temperature and 2. All the H2O doesn't evaporate before anything is taken in by the plant......of course also different strains and at different ages affects it.....
If its always nice and 'cool' in a room that's not bursting with light the same FF may not burn whereas it burns in a bright ass hot room......
....I also was 'dimming' lights when FF until they started burning out, I'll never use the 'dimming' feature again lol....
If its always nice and 'cool' in a room that's not bursting with light the same FF may not burn whereas it burns in a bright ass hot room......
....I also was 'dimming' lights when FF until they started burning out, I'll never use the 'dimming' feature again lol....
Well I can say I have experienced burn when spraying with the lights on..Several times.. That was enough for me to foilar only on lights out.. But then again I use neem with every foilar... The burn was always on the top most leaves...
I wouldn't say I foilar feed because most of my sprays are simply for IPM... My temp hovers around 72 to 77.
I wouldn't say I foilar feed because most of my sprays are simply for IPM... My temp hovers around 72 to 77.
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vonforne
Alfalfa will burn your plants with or without the lights on if it is not diluted properly. It is best to use Alfalfa lightly anyway as it is a ´green material´ even though it is dry. As far as neem goes it depends on your source as to what the quality is. Remember with anything ´less is better´
Depending of how close and how warm the room is whether or not I folair with the lights on. When they (the light) first fire I generally folair.......like an early morning dew on the leaves. The lights and the ambient temperatures are still low in the room. On the later part of the cycle it is not a good idea to folair........you don´t water your outdoor garden at 4pm on a hot day do you? No.
Depending of how close and how warm the room is whether or not I folair with the lights on. When they (the light) first fire I generally folair.......like an early morning dew on the leaves. The lights and the ambient temperatures are still low in the room. On the later part of the cycle it is not a good idea to folair........you don´t water your outdoor garden at 4pm on a hot day do you? No.
Usually it's the bug spray concoctions that burn..especially with lights on. Properly diluted nutrient foliars don't usually burn,yet Von has mentioned some variables that also play a role.
Alfalfa will burn in a tea,topdress,and foliar easily...less is indeed more with alfalfa. Just 1 cup per 55 gallons of water curled the edges on some types in my garden. Talk about immediate release....it may be faster than blood meal.
Neem is notorious for burning w/lights on with most types of cannabis.
Alfalfa will burn in a tea,topdress,and foliar easily...less is indeed more with alfalfa. Just 1 cup per 55 gallons of water curled the edges on some types in my garden. Talk about immediate release....it may be faster than blood meal.
Neem is notorious for burning w/lights on with most types of cannabis.
Awesome info you all are sharing man. I love this place Durdy I'll wait to hear back from you on the book you were going to look at too. I'll be switching to just before light out i think. I have noticed some burning on the younger leaves and some older ones where the water drips down on to the lower leaves. I FF with liquid kelp mostly but have added aloe and Agsil now too. I noticed this before i got the aloe and agsil though so my conclusion is that its the lights and maybe i am mixing it to strong. It says to add 1 tsp to a liter which i have done before but usually stick to 1/2 tsp.
Durdy I'll wait to hear back from you on the book you were going to look at too. I'll be switching to just before light out i think. I have noticed some burning on the younger leaves and some older ones where the water drips down on to the lower leaves. I FF with liquid kelp mostly but have added aloe and Agsil now too. I noticed this before i got the aloe and agsil though so my conclusion is that its the lights and maybe i am mixing it to strong. It says to add 1 tsp to a liter which i have done before but usually stick to 1/2 tsp.RanchoDeluxe
Member
Hey 420man- If ya take a look at the ROLS thread (guessing the first 20 pages) Coot talks about why we should only use kelp meal. If I remember right liquid seaweed products simply provide NPK and none of the other goodies. I believe he stated that because of the processes involved to make liquid seaweed, that it would soon be losing it's organic certification in CA and OR. Whereas, if you were to use kelp meal, you get NPK and a plethora of other benefits.
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Durdy
"Stoma (stomata) A minute pore or opening in the epidermis of leaves, herbaceous stems, and the sporophytes of hornworts; it is flanked by two guard cells that regulate its opening and closing and thus regulate gas exchange and transpiration"
Transpiration actually doesn't occur at night but rather during the day (my mistake earlier) So I'm guessing it's to keep the plant cool (like when we sweat) as well as pull water / nutrients through the roots during peak sunlight hours (root pressure) to maximize photosynthesis.
The stomata regulate gas exchange internally in the plant, they release water vapor, which in turn helps cool leaves, and intake CO2 (also during the day) to complete photosynthesis.
There are other structures on the leaves called hydrathodes, which release water vapor at night when transpiration is not occurring.
Fun fact! Stomata can range from 1000 to more than 1.2 million per square centimeter
The main roll of stomata is regulation of evaporation / water exchange at the roots, and gas exchange with the atmosphere.
It's doesn't mention intaking liquids at all, only gases, are nutritional foliars absorbed by the plant as they evaporate off the leaf surface? I get that the IPM foliars aren't about being absorbed by the plant but coating the leaf surface to ward off the critters we are not fond of.
Maybe IPM foliars at lights off, and Nutritional at lights on?
My book doesn't mention a single word about foliar applications.
Personally I've become a lazy man and don't foliar anything now that all my girls are flowering haha, just been watering and using enzyme teas.
Transpiration actually doesn't occur at night but rather during the day (my mistake earlier) So I'm guessing it's to keep the plant cool (like when we sweat) as well as pull water / nutrients through the roots during peak sunlight hours (root pressure) to maximize photosynthesis.
The stomata regulate gas exchange internally in the plant, they release water vapor, which in turn helps cool leaves, and intake CO2 (also during the day) to complete photosynthesis.
There are other structures on the leaves called hydrathodes, which release water vapor at night when transpiration is not occurring.
Fun fact! Stomata can range from 1000 to more than 1.2 million per square centimeter
The main roll of stomata is regulation of evaporation / water exchange at the roots, and gas exchange with the atmosphere.
It's doesn't mention intaking liquids at all, only gases, are nutritional foliars absorbed by the plant as they evaporate off the leaf surface? I get that the IPM foliars aren't about being absorbed by the plant but coating the leaf surface to ward off the critters we are not fond of.
Maybe IPM foliars at lights off, and Nutritional at lights on?
My book doesn't mention a single word about foliar applications.
Personally I've become a lazy man and don't foliar anything now that all my girls are flowering haha, just been watering and using enzyme teas.
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Durdy
No, but I do once it's cooled off around 8 or 9 sometimes.
I think you maybe on to something here....
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vonforne
If I do my outdoor garden I wait till the sun goes down for an hour or more or water at 5 am 2 hours before it comes up.
Observant aren´t we?
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Durdy
It really just depends what's most convenient for me.
I think I might put in a timed drip system this year, more hammock time!
I think I might put in a timed drip system this year, more hammock time!
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vonforne
I am going to be out of town working so it is timers and sprayers for me.
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YosemiteSam
I apologize for the tone of my last post. It was out of line.
One of the things you read from the Albrecht guys though is that if cell cation saturation is not 60% Ca then foliars are less effective. If plants dump 1/2 of their sugar at night into the soil...does Ca get tranlocated also? Maybe not cause it is hard to tranlocate.
I don't know the real answer. I am just too lazy to slap a green light on my head and go in there at night is the real truth from me.
One of the things you read from the Albrecht guys though is that if cell cation saturation is not 60% Ca then foliars are less effective. If plants dump 1/2 of their sugar at night into the soil...does Ca get tranlocated also? Maybe not cause it is hard to tranlocate.
I don't know the real answer. I am just too lazy to slap a green light on my head and go in there at night is the real truth from me.
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