The Lounge : Growers Round Table Discussion Thread

[jidoka]

If you do the actual calculation your base % is well over a hundred 2) you have that high soluble salt content without using soluble nutes...your Cec sites cannot hold anymore and 3) if I remember right you have at least 10x the Ca ppm that you do mg or k.

Slow probably made a better call than me. I would still wanna check that what is in the soluble. It ain’t balanced if you got disease

 

[slownickel]

Thanks SN

Yes it was sifted. I let a few cups of mix dry out thoroughly, then i sifted.

Yes it does hang onto water

Would you please explain why you say I have plenty of Ca but the report states 49% Ca saturation ? Do you suggest that I bring up copper or manganese ppm?

Charles,

The lab number is not calculated. They automatically make their calculation with a number they pull out of the air as they assume that no soil anywhere in the world has that much calcium and that it is all carbonates and not available. Ignore their numbers. Their numbers are not correct. It is very very important to do the math. Here are your correct numbers. You got real close! Good job! Mn a bit would help, Cu-is fine. Your pH is going to probably fall in a short time.... what is the pH of your water?

K --- Mg --- Ca --- Na
4.0% ---12.7% -----81.7%--1.6%

 

[slownickel]

So the EC and the nitrate are messing with me. I don’t see how it got that high given your ingredients. Those salts are scewing your test and suppressing your microbes

Do you have time to get a test on the soluble? Contact custom hydro and get a sample bottle and paperwork for the test above. But to get the sample grab a gt of that soil. Water it to your normal level. 1/2 an hr later water it with enough distilled water to fill the bottle

Your grow is running on those soluble salts. This should tell us why the disease

The worm castings can be full of nitrates, depends on the source. Sodium too.... folks tend to use way too much EWC.

And to answer the question about P, I like triple super or simple super phosphate, they are acidified calcium phosphate.

 

[Charles Dankens]

Charles,

The lab number is not calculated. They automatically make their calculation with a number they pull out of the air as they assume that no soil anywhere in the world has that much calcium and that it is all carbonates and not available. Ignore their numbers. Their numbers are not correct. It is very very important to do the math. Here are your correct numbers. You got real close! Good job! Mn a bit would help, Cu-is fine. Your pH is going to probably fall in a short time.... what is the pH of your water?

K --- Mg --- Ca --- Na
4.0% ---12.7% -----81.7%--1.6%

Wow. I wasn't expecting such good news. Thanks for breaking it down for me Slownickel.

My spigot water is 7pH 150-200ppm. I use reverse osmosis water and collected rain water most of the time.

 

[Charles Dankens]

If you do the actual calculation your base % is well over a hundred 2) you have that high soluble salt content without using soluble nutes...your Cec sites cannot hold anymore and 3) if I remember right you have at least 10x the Ca ppm that you do mg or k.

Slow probably made a better call than me. I would still wanna check that what is in the soluble. It ain’t balanced if you got disease

Thanks jidoka. I'll post when i get information about the solubles.

The botrytis is minimal this grow but even with very good environmental conditions throughout flowering some large buds were lost.

 

[growingcrazy]

Charles,

The lab number is not calculated. They automatically make their calculation with a number they pull out of the air as they assume that no soil anywhere in the world has that much calcium and that it is all carbonates and not available. Ignore their numbers. Their numbers are not correct. It is very very important to do the math. Here are your correct numbers. You got real close! Good job! Mn a bit would help, Cu-is fine. Your pH is going to probably fall in a short time.... what is the pH of your water?

K --- Mg --- Ca --- Na
4.0% ---12.7% -----81.7%--1.6%

Can you explain why in your thread when I mention the fact the lab is wrong and that all base elements should be calculated, regardless of CEC. I was scoffed at.

Now You are doing just that...

In saying that, I would make the same recommendation as Slow... Cut the mix in half and rinse it until a desirable EC is reached in the run off.

Why doesn't anybody test the base mix before over doing all the elements...much easier to make corrections/additions, not to mention the cost.

 

[slownickel]

Can you explain why in your thread when I mention the fact the lab is wrong and that all base elements should be calculated, regardless of CEC. I was scoffed at.

Now You are doing just that...

In saying that, I would make the same recommendation as Slow... Cut the mix in half and rinse it until a desirable EC is reached in the run off.

Why doesn't anybody test the base mix before over doing all the elements...much easier to make corrections/additions, not to mention the cost.

Not sure what you are talking about. The calculations from the lab on base saturations are never correct.

Maybe you are referring to all the cations, ie Fe and Al? There I don't bother. The influence is almost always negligible from the influence og the other cations other than H. I have added Fe and Al in washed out clays in banana soils in Costa Rica though!

 

[jidoka]

These kind of results is exactly why I like IAL s3 and s5 soil tests these days. Organic or not people are pushing growth with soluble nutes, hardly Albrecht’s not soluble but available

 

[slownickel]

These kind of results is exactly why I like IAL s3 and s5 soil tests these days. Organic or not people are pushing growth with soluble nutes, hardly Albrecht’s not soluble but available

IAL? Really? Can't stop laughing! We ran their procedure against the leaf analysis, no correlation.

 

[jidoka]

Did you get both tests? Or just the Morgan?

 

[slownickel]

Did you get both tests? Or just the Morgan?

Just Morgan.

 

[Charles Dankens]

In saying that, I would make the same recommendation as Slow... Cut the mix in half and rinse it until a desirable EC is reached in the run off.

Thank you growingcrazy.

I am going to roll with these suggestions.

 

[bsgospel]

I've got some classic Globeville soil I'd like to test for arsenic and cadmium. Just as a point of interest first, then we're going to fix up this guy's yard. Think Logan or Spectrum has a package for such elements? If there are any traces they would be about one hundred years old and a few miles from the offending smelter.

Edit: I've found on both Spectrum's and Midwest Lab's sites that they do testing for Ar and Cd- but in fertilizers. More browsing on testing in soils....

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090401183822.htm From 2009. Wonder where it stands a decade out from that finding...

 

[hyposomniac]

I thought I read somewhere that the soil sample is pulverized as part of the testing process. True or false?
There's a fair bit of small broken perlite particles after sifting. Surely pulverizing them would skew things?

I sifted 120grams, it dried​ to 92g, topped off to 100g. Sending 100g samples of peat mix, is that a thing??
Thanks

 

[slownickel]

It's the best we have so far. Suggestions are always helpful.

 

[GSWCali]

Finally got my source water results back and they are excellent! These are the numbers they gave me.

pH: 7.9
Strontium: 0.05 PPM
Sodium: 10.7 PPM
Iron: 0.06 PPM
Alkalinity (as CaCo3) : 40 PPM
Hardness: 20 PPM
Total Dissolved Solids: 71 PPM
Potassium: 0.74 PPM
Aluminum: 0.012 PPM
Barium: 0.012 PPM
Boron: 0.01 PPM
Calcium: 3.5 PPM
Chloride: 5 PPM
Copper: 0.005 PPM
Fluoride: 0.01 PPM
Magnesium: 1.34 PPM
Nickel: 0.001 PPM
Phosphorous: 0.002 PPM
Zinc: 0.02 PPM

So now that I know what is in my water, I can now formulate my fertilizer with some good precision and accuracy. With the numbers GrowingCrazy gave me, N100 - P100 - K120 - Ca115 - Mg50 - S60 - Fe3 - Zn1.2 - Mn2 - Cu.6 - B.45 - Mo.15.... Would I subtract the numbers that I got from my source water to this recipe or are the numbers from my source water low enough where it wouldn't make a difference?

Now that my results are in I'm progressing further to get my next run going! Woohoo! As things move along during the grow, when I need to increase ratios to supply new adequate levels of nutrients, would I increase the ppms of everything to keep the elemental ratios the same?

 

[MrBungle]

Add what you need in salts to your water numbers to achieve your desired PPM.. nice clean h2o

 

[GSWCali]

Add what you need in salts to your water numbers to achieve your desired PPM.. nice clean h2o

Sounds good MrBungle thank you!

 

[growingcrazy]

Finally got my source water results back and they are excellent! These are the numbers they gave me.

pH: 7.9
Strontium: 0.05 PPM
Sodium: 10.7 PPM
Iron: 0.06 PPM
Alkalinity (as CaCo3) : 40 PPM
Hardness: 20 PPM
Total Dissolved Solids: 71 PPM
Potassium: 0.74 PPM
Aluminum: 0.012 PPM
Barium: 0.012 PPM
Boron: 0.01 PPM
Calcium: 3.5 PPM
Chloride: 5 PPM
Copper: 0.005 PPM
Fluoride: 0.01 PPM
Magnesium: 1.34 PPM
Nickel: 0.001 PPM
Phosphorous: 0.002 PPM
Zinc: 0.02 PPM

So now that I know what is in my water, I can now formulate my fertilizer with some good precision and accuracy. With the numbers GrowingCrazy gave me, N100 - P100 - K120 - Ca115 - Mg50 - S60 - Fe3 - Zn1.2 - Mn2 - Cu.6 - B.45 - Mo.15.... Would I subtract the numbers that I got from my source water to this recipe or are the numbers from my source water low enough where it wouldn't make a difference?

Now that my results are in I'm progressing further to get my next run going! Woohoo! As things move along during the grow, when I need to increase ratios to supply new adequate levels of nutrients, would I increase the ppms of everything to keep the elemental ratios the same?

With that pH and low tds your water is just what you need. Subtract those numbers from your fert recipe ppm to end up with your correct totals in the end, as Mr. Bungle stated.


You have a situation where you can use Pacid as your pH down..that will put your in 100-120-120 range as far as P is concerned. If needed only use enough p acid to bring the P numbers up and citric acid to do the rest of the pH adjustment.


I'm guessing you will ramp this mix up until your N is around 160-180ppm. Push the amount up until you see the plant as green as you like. I like to stay just ahead of lime green as far as N level by visuals.

 

[jidoka]

IMO, a) get Mg down to about 25 b) get Ca above K and c) flip flop Fe and Mn

As is you will end up chasing N and will have a Ca problem whether it shows up or not

You will also have mobile elements short in the lower leaf...bug and mold problems. You will need higher EC to fix that

At least in my experience