He says he Gives cash and weed to the homless from the sales
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The Landrace Team
- Thread starter need4weed
- Start date
We have all gotten seeds from someone.
No one creates seeds or varieties from scratch.
But you should always be honest with the origin and this bank seems not to be.
I had already heard shady stories a long time ago about how he got his seeds.
Then they don't put prices either and also prices that are an armed robbery.
Now they are not to blame.
The only fault lies with those who know all this or are willing to pay what they ask for.
If no one bought seeds from them, I assure you they would not ask for that price.
Besides having so many varieties I question the quality.
They do not give explanations for the reproduction.
Who knows who has reproduced them and how?
I have already seen varieties that are hermaphrodite smokable straw.
They have many varieties, if someone wants, for example, 10 and wants 3 packages of each one, the price they sell them for is thousands of euros.
WTF?
I have a seed bank and the entire time it was open I was losing money.
Thousands of euros.
The self-employed fee to be able to sell, management, electricity, water, rent, diesel, online store.....
Each package at 40 euros with shipping included, if you remove shipping, packaging, taxes... it stays at 20-25 euros.
If I also sell them to another store to sell them I earn 10-15 euros per package.
When the expenses per month are close to 1000.
How many packages do I have to sell to cover expenses?
In addition, these varieties are hardly bought by anyone.
One of the reasons why Cannabiogen stopped selling seeds was the lack of sales and all the work that it entailed.
Without counting all the work and hours that go into it.
Now I am going to open the store again with new varieties, if it goes well it will remain open and if not I will close it again and keep the seeds for myself and my son...
No one creates seeds or varieties from scratch.
But you should always be honest with the origin and this bank seems not to be.
I had already heard shady stories a long time ago about how he got his seeds.
Then they don't put prices either and also prices that are an armed robbery.
Now they are not to blame.
The only fault lies with those who know all this or are willing to pay what they ask for.
If no one bought seeds from them, I assure you they would not ask for that price.
Besides having so many varieties I question the quality.
They do not give explanations for the reproduction.
Who knows who has reproduced them and how?
I have already seen varieties that are hermaphrodite smokable straw.
They have many varieties, if someone wants, for example, 10 and wants 3 packages of each one, the price they sell them for is thousands of euros.
WTF?
I have a seed bank and the entire time it was open I was losing money.
Thousands of euros.
The self-employed fee to be able to sell, management, electricity, water, rent, diesel, online store.....
Each package at 40 euros with shipping included, if you remove shipping, packaging, taxes... it stays at 20-25 euros.
If I also sell them to another store to sell them I earn 10-15 euros per package.
When the expenses per month are close to 1000.
How many packages do I have to sell to cover expenses?
In addition, these varieties are hardly bought by anyone.
One of the reasons why Cannabiogen stopped selling seeds was the lack of sales and all the work that it entailed.
Without counting all the work and hours that go into it.
Now I am going to open the store again with new varieties, if it goes well it will remain open and if not I will close it again and keep the seeds for myself and my son...
I can ask, if you like?
The prices, I think, are a bit high but they have a minimum breakeven that they need to make to stay in business and because they aren't going to sell many packs of some obscure Landrace from a faraway land, in this market of modern cannabis, the prices are higher. If they sold more they could reduce the prices, I guess - but only so many growers want to grow these lines..
As for the quality of having so many varieties - that's more down to the genetics. It's about preserving the lines and not really making them stronger or 'better' I would think that most Landraces work - at least in the place where they were from - or why have they been grown for generation after generation?
The hermaphrodite smokable straw is probably fair enough - we've all seen that - but often that is more down to the grower not understanding their plant...
I do agree that you must sell a LOT of seeds in order to make it pay - all the work that goes on in the background and then you sell, like a packet a month or something. Low sales and no profits really are the killer. When you consider my costs and all the time (and energy) that I put into just a few different lines... I don't think I have made any profit at all.. I honestly think that I spend more on postage than I make per month from it all - I can understand Cannabiogen's view. I might even follow his lead! When you also consider the opportunity cost of growing an old sativa and then filling her with seeds, instead of growing a modern line and selling or smoking the weed... nobody breeds/makes seeds for profits.
I am sure that is why TLT charges what they charge- because they must.
I'll ask! Sorry for the delay in answering..
RobFromTX
Well-known member
No worries buddy. I already noticed its back. Im just caught up with all these other projects at the moment. About to run some honduras and new caledonia
RobFromTX
Well-known member
Im surprised Cannabiogen was having lack of sales. Hes quite popular on the threads ive read. Im just so sorry i missed his punto rojo
Verdant Whisperer
Well-known member
I had that happen with Vietnams, of the 4 plants I had all of them where hermies, if the neighbor's dog didn't get the others I would have had more plants to look for a keeper, so it's not a good evaluator, but going 0/4 made me want to look elsewhere, the Kilimanjaro from east africa genes was different only had 50% hermie. 5/10 - 3/10 True Male 2/10 True Female, it'll be interesting to see the percentages from the next generation of seeds, with pollen only from true males+ and true females and having 1 generation acclimating to environment. Edit: i found that the kilimanjaros that hermied had yellow crazy ant infestations in their roots, because i transplanted them into garden using potting soil, because of the stress on the plants i would not consider my results a valid indicators of seed quality of either distributor.
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RobFromTX
Well-known member
Theres always a surprise waiting when you grow landraces
If this was one of the reasons why I stopped working on new varieties.
You can read kaiki say it in various forums.
He got up at 5 and worked until night and sales were few. Besides the risk.
Luckily I have some of their varieties.
Soon I will release Punto Rojo x Old Timers Haze.
RobFromTX
Well-known member
That sounds like a great cross. Its a tough job these breeders have and i give it off to them. You cant do it forever. I live in fear of the day that ace seeds closes up. Thats why i made a seed vault
gilbertx099
Member
RobFromTX
Well-known member
Whats this one?
As an aspiring breeder I'm curious how one works on their cannabis farm from 5 AM to dusk. I've maintained up to 60 plants at a single time, but it didn't take me but like 1 hour daily to water (2x 30 min). On the occasions I would have to transplant of course it would take all day. I could still work a full time job and maintain my plants though. Occasionally I would have to spend an hour or two trimming, and doing stuff like that. Weekends were good for that.
My plants provide me with tens of thousands of seeds if I charge only $1 per seed or less... hmm... in addition those outdoor plants only cost me time to water. The money spent on the seed, costs to grow it, and everything involved is much less than the output we receive from the plants. I harvest kilos of smoke, and kilos of seeds. If it wasn't worth it, we wouldn't do it to begin with.
When indoors I guess maybe I could understand rent and electric. If a person learns composting and using materials free and available to them locally and rain water harvesting you can alleviate a lot of the 'costs' of growing indoors, other than electric and rent.
Is the real rub business, and have nothing to do with sales? The thing of it is... there are people out there paying ridiculous prices for clones and seeds in the US. It's more about offering a product which most people want.
From what I can see here in the U.S. the major complaint by breeders is that customers demand viroid and viral tests, terpene tests, and cannabinoid numbers. These 'results' give more marketable material to breeders, which means more eyes find their products. More eyes = more sales.
Since the landrace market is so different I wonder if it's a question of marketing and advertising to customers. Do we really know how many people would rather grow a modern hybrid vs a landrace. The answer to this question may provide the answer to diminished sales.
As a young person, I wonder how many older folks who want to grow landraces are dying of, and being replaced by dumb kids just trying to find their way.
How so? That is all genetics in action. I am going to grow some Cambodian that I know will hermie. I can accept that and some being hay if magic is also present in the mix.
If you are set on a strain and it hermies, you can pluck off male bits and lessen the seed production.
This should be answered by Kaiki, not me, but...
It's not just watering, it's transplanting, it's making clones, maintaining mothers, cleaning, photographing daily, getting fresh seeds every once in a while, evaluating and testing new varieties... And all this indoors, which produces fewer seeds than outdoors.
Multiply it across the entire cannabiogen catalog in regular, feminized and auto...
I remember that he spent several years working with Punto Rojo.
Destroyer 7 years, so that then dutch passion comes and pirates it, selling it as "desfran".
It was still sold in cannabiogen.
The problem with these varieties is that there are 4 gourmets who want them.
Young people and the vast majority want commercial hybrids with a maximum of 10 weeks of flowering and a sofa effect.
Almost no one wants plants that have 4 or 5 months of flowering.
So if you raise the price too much, people don't buy or buy less, they complain about the high price and only people who have more purchasing power buy and those who can't don't buy or buy less. You discriminate against them.
If you put the price low, it seems that it is of lower quality and since there are few sales and a lower price, the accounts do not come out.
That's why cannabiogen closed.
Kaiki liked regular varieties and had to go for feminization and try autos because it was what the market was asking for. Until he got tired and left.
Ace seeds now had to raise prices to be able to continue and I recently read Dubi on his forum that he was a little tired and didn't know if it was worth continuing.
Tropical Seeds has been on the verge of closing several times, in addition to also shooting for the feminized market that Aeros did not like.
In my case I will not sell seeds fems or autos, I will keep the prices as tight as possible and if it does not go well I will close. Let people buy cookies and gorillas, but I don't plan to put the price of a packet of seeds at 80-100 euros...
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RobFromTX
Well-known member
Well once Ace goes under thats it for me. I'll grow out what i have in my vault until its gone and give it up completely. Theres plenty of folks like me that only like pure sativas. I dont mind a long flowering time to get those amazing effects. These mainstream hybrids may look pretty and smell nice but to me they have the same effect across the board. Muddy lazy couchlock effect, which i know plenty of people out there appreciate, they have their place but i only grow them for friends and family. I hope dubis not throwing in the towel yet but if he does i atleast hope he can find a successor to continue his good works.
True wisdom here. It is a challenge that's for sure.
In my opinion if one wants to grow landrace a little sense goes a long way. It's very common for landrace to herm naturally, especially in certain areas.
@PandoraSeedBank - Thanks for the explanation. It does appear the crux of the issue is that it ultimately comes down to business. Price points, opportunity cost, marketing, and so on... this isn't just about selling seeds. Most of it appears to be economic in nature.
All those things you mentioned... watering, transplanting, cloning, documenting, and so on... aren't we doing those things anyways?
In my opinion this is the crux of the issue. CBG (Kaiki) tried to do too much. If you research price evaluation and supply and demand in economics you'll find that there's a very delicate balance when it comes to price. You can discriminate on both parties : wealthy buyers and non-wealthy buyers. For the wealthy, they don't want a 'cheap' product. They will pay more for superior quality. For the non-wealthy they need a cost-effective product which won't waste their precious time. Non-wealthy people have to be extra choosy because of the scarcity present in their lives. They *require* that the money they spend turns into something useful. Wealthy people don't have this problem.
Additionally wealthy people won't be affected by poor seeds, if marketed as premium. They have the funds and means to acquire more. Non-wealthy do not have this option. This is why car companies selling premium cars often survive alongside regular automobile manufacturers.
The difference between a 'premium' seed bank and something like The Landrace Team is that the premium seed bank does advertising on their products, they understand business, and they can guarantee the results from the seeds they offer. TLT cannot know their product is premium because it's landrace. It's inherent that there will be crappy plants in landrace... comes with the territory. The problem here is that TLT offers their product like it's premium, and it definitely isn't.
I do have to make a statement about CBG (destroyer) specifically since it's used as an example.
Working on Destroyer line for 7 years sounds like a passion project and not a business opportunity. Did this have something to do with herm rates or something early on? The first 2 years were for exploration and the remaining 5 to remove any 'kinks'? As a business person the only sense this would make is if during the entire 7 years people were clamoring for those seeds. If this wasn't the case then he didn't have any demand. If he didn't have any demand it's no wonder people didn't care for the supply (at that price point).
If we compare a seed line to restoring a classic car (takes about the same amount of time) we could clearly see that unless we're restoring a 2 million dollar car... it's always going to be a labor of love. Trying to make a living off one car is kind of silly, no matter what car it is.
If you look at TLT like a car company they are offering tons of cars. There's SUVs, midsize cars, sub compacts, trucks and so on. They don't put their entire business on the faith of 2 or 3 flagship strains.
Working on Destroyer line for 7 years sounds like a passion project and not a business opportunity. Did this have something to do with herm rates or something early on? The first 2 years were for exploration and the remaining 5 to remove any 'kinks'? As a business person the only sense this would make is if during the entire 7 years people were clamoring for those seeds. If this wasn't the case then he didn't have any demand. If he didn't have any demand it's no wonder people didn't care for the supply (at that price point).
If we compare a seed line to restoring a classic car (takes about the same amount of time) we could clearly see that unless we're restoring a 2 million dollar car... it's always going to be a labor of love. Trying to make a living off one car is kind of silly, no matter what car it is.
If you look at TLT like a car company they are offering tons of cars. There's SUVs, midsize cars, sub compacts, trucks and so on. They don't put their entire business on the faith of 2 or 3 flagship strains.
