The Importance of Landrace Genetics to the Breeder

[Bongstar420]

"Untainted"

LOL

Get over your sandy vag. You can't hit the +5% terps..so what

Is it so bad that I can get 29%THC and 7% terps off some slackers accident (and you call em "elite" another LOL)

BTW>Landraces have much more hermaphrodites

Maybe some people want an untainted germplasm and don't want to be accused of "Hacking" another breeders work.

I would rather create a strain rated a 6 or 7 on a scale of 10 using mostly or totally Landrace plants.
VS creating a strain that is 9 or 10 using feminized elite clones that have all the Terptards going crazy for.

In this case the OP is trying to grow Landrace plants to revitalize Jamaica Cannabis industry I believe
according to another thread he created. I think we all know the damage that modern Dutch Hybrids
have done to most of that island and other Landrace hot spots.

 

[corky1968]

"Untainted"

LOL

Get over your sandy vag. You can't hit the +5% terps..so what

Is it so bad that I can get 29%THC and 7% terps off some slackers accident (and you call em "elite" another LOL)

BTW>Landraces have much more hermaphrodites

This is a Landrace thread in case you can't read.

BTW: I've never grown a hermie plant yet and THC isn't everything.

Maybe it's your growing technique.

 

[yesum]

Let me compare

the original Acapulco Gold (circa 1968) to that of the Girl Scout Cookie (circa 2014)

GSC wins every time

with total credit and respect to the Acapulco Gold

How do I know you never had real Acapulco Gold, aside from the 88 year of birth? Almost no one that the real thing back then considers current strains better. Tie maybe but few would say better.

Most people back then did not get real AG or top Thai stick either, so that factors into it too. It was rare. Not like GSC which is all over California and legal states and can be found elsewhere somewhat.

No real trip out with indoor grown hybrids, total trip out with some of the best sativas from years ago. AG tested at over 20% thc when grown recently. So not even lab testing is all that different, and the psychedelic high from real AG is on another level entirely.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Never had hermies either and btw I've never discovered the carrot aroma among those so-called Dutch genetics.

Keep on growing

 

[Mustafunk]

Let me compare

the original Acapulco Gold (circa 1968) to that of the Girl Scout Cookie (circa 2014)

GSC wins every time

with total credit and respect to the Acapulco Gold

Well that depends on what you are looking for... many of us would prefer any good mexican heirloom party weed to GSC any day! Most sativa heads to be honest.

By the way, there are plenty Jamaican heirlooms around yet... Jamaica Blue Mountain 1985, Bushman's Jamaican Lamsbread 1970 or Beanie Man's Choice Jamaican come to mind. No way the original heirloom Lamsbread had skunk genes on it... we've been growing loads of them and it's airy, it's +20 weeks flowering time and it doesn't have any hashplant traits at all. The Blue Mountain looks a bit more compact though, but still has a superb quality and NLD behavior.

The indian coolies haven't brought any skunks into Jamaica or Africa after 1833, it certainly couldn't have been introduced there during the next 150 years until Sacred Seed developed the first Cannabis hybrids from history.

Heirlooms and landrace populations aren't the same. Landraces are the result of certain environment conditions plus minimum domestication by man and they are always attached to a very specific niche (and farmin techniques, soil, climatic conditions...) where they evolve as distinctive populations, while heirloom cultivars don't have such a strict relation to its environment and have been domesticated for many more generations, leading into an homogeneous cultivar... just like heirloom vegetables like the Black Krim tomatos, the Charentais cantaloupes or the Grann

Landraces still retain the genetic diversity that makes them useful for the future.

How could you "breed" or develop totally brand new cultivars without brand new genes as well? If you don't have access to brand new traits either, you don't really have enough genetic variation in order to do that. You can definitely breed great hybrids starting off from elite clones or high quality Cannabis heirlooms as Skunk, Blueberry and so on. Plus its much easier, you just need a few generations and limited space can work a bit better. But their genetic information and traits will be always limited, just like its potential for developing new cultivars. Thus you will end with hundreds of predictive strains that smoke, look and grow the same and lack a distictive character or even intersting terpenes... that's what's happening nowadays with Cannabis hybrids. But when you introduce some new genes or traits, then magic could happen, right?

 

[corky1968]

Bushman's Jamaican Lamsbread 1970

Landraces still retain the genetic diversity that makes them useful for the future.

That sounds like a nice variety.
So true about the variations.

 

[Arf]

According to this thread below, skunk#1 contaminated the local landraces in the mid80's & lambsbread is a local sativa X skunk#1 originally

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=193769

What do you mean "contaminated" do you mean Jamaican people choose to grow skunk#1 because they preferred it over the local sativa?

You realize that humans are just another form of selective pressure in nature, no different to animals helping propagate seeds around. If some land race strain doesn't survive in the wild without assistance, then it joins a long list of extinct plant species and life goes on. If it has some attractive properties for farming, then it will thrive.

 

[baduy]

If some land race strain doesn't survive in the wild without assistance, then it joins a long list of extinct plant species and life goes on. If it has some attractive properties for farming, then it will thrive.

Never been to Jamaica but all plants I've seen grown by cash croppers in the Southern Carribean and pics I've seen here and there were quite short and seemed to need regular watering, far from thriving I'd say.
This kind of stature makes me think of a hybrid gone wrong,like if it took the short size of WLD with the lanky structure of NLD, kind of moderatly fluffy buds and a skunk influence that flattens the high.
Decades of bad breeding thanks to prohibition and unfortunate combination of recessive and dominant genetic traits my guess.
I'd love to get my hands on a true Lambsbread to compare.

 

[Arf]

No, I mean contaminated as in the dictionary sense, which is impure

What from stray pollen?

 

[Arf]

Dutch genetics according to this thread, have a read


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=193769a

I have already read that article, it doesn't answer my questions.

I will rephrase it. Was the introduction into the local Jamaican sativa of Skunk#1 genetics accidental or deliberate?

In either case it doesn't mater because if the new hybrid dominates over the old sativa then the hybrid becomes the successful evolution of the land race.

 

[Arf]

I don't think it was accidental or deliberately done for ulterior motives maybe the local farmers wanted to try the new genetics being promoted at the time, same way how farmers in Asia have done the same.

So it was selective pressure, if the old sativa was better they would revert back to that. In essence it was not a land race, but a farmed crop. The sativa land race is probably still out there in the wild, unless it's not capable of surviving without human assistance.

 

[Shaheed]

So it was selective pressure, if the old sativa was better they would revert back to that. In essence it was not a land race, but a farmed crop. The sativa land race is probably still out there in the wild, unless it's not capable of surviving without human assistance.

Not about being "better" rather length of time of maturity of the crop. As a result of the War on Drugs, Ganja farmers could not spend any great length of time in one location (unless one was connected heavily), also the Sativas of Old, were very very large in some cases and very hard to hide from Authorities in helicopters, thus smaller plants were of course easier to hide. As for potency, many old farmers will tell you quickly that there is no better herb than the "good good Collie." of times gone by. The reality though is that Ganja is not native to Jamaica but a Sativa CULTIVAR had been established in the island by the Indian Indentured Servants, who also brought with them sacramental use of the herbs (as do the Sahdus devoted to Lord Shiva) and the growing of locks (of same culture). Alot of farmers now hearing how badly people want the medicine, wished that they could have preserved the old Sativas, as those were indeed medical, but only few, have old lines.

 

[Arf]

Not about being "better" rather length of time of maturity of the crop. As a result of the War on Drugs, Ganja farmers could not spend any great length of time in one location (unless one was connected heavily), also the Sativas of Old, were very very large in some cases and very hard to hide from Authorities in helicopters, thus smaller plants were of course easier to hide. As for potency, many old farmers will tell you quickly that there is no better herb than the "good good Collie." of times gone by. The reality though is that Ganja is not native to Jamaica but a Sativa CULTIVAR had been established in the island by the Indian Indentured Servants, who also brought with them sacramental use of the herbs (as do the Sahdus devoted to Lord Shiva) and the growing of locks (of same culture). Alot of farmers now hearing how badly people want the medicine, wished that they could have preserved the old Sativas, as those were indeed medical, but only few, have old lines.

So the Authorities in helicopters become the selective pressure, interesting observation. I am sure old strains from the 1980's are still around, I have Thai bagseed given to me from the 1970s that is still viable. The old Jamaican sativa needs to evolve into an indoor strain to flourish it seems, or get the laws changed.

 

[Roms]

So the Authorities in helicopters become the selective pressure, interesting observation. I am sure old strains from the 1980's are still around, I have Thai bagseed given to me from the 1970s that is still viable. The old Jamaican sativa needs to evolve into an indoor strain to flourish it seems, or get the laws changed.

Police is consequence off money and business, that's the real selective pressure you know how our world evolve since the 70's! Money money money many money many...
So is there still true Rastaz that grow, preserve and protect their ganja from India in Jamaica nowadays? Yah perso i think so, rare but yes! And Dutch or USA Hybrids are not really the problem, the real big problema is the level of consciousness and education! Comaback to the roots to reach the top level future probability of hand man creation, that makes the Importance of Old Genetics to the Breeder.

Good luck with your 70's Thaï bagseed Arf, reproductions planned? Peace thx for the thread Shaheed!

 

[Arf]

Good luck with your 70's Thaï bagseed Arf, reproductions planned? Peace thx for the thread Shaheed!

Already done, a few months back. It's not very good, too airy for indoors, though I found a self topping pheno on both a male and a female which I made a point of crossing, so that was interesting, otherwise I just like to make some more beans every now and then for the heck of it.

 

[Roms]

In the same boat bro the hard is done félicitations Arf! Now you have multiple chances to find better flowers phenotype, Thaï/Laos/.. ample genetics! Airy and fluffy moms can produce different better offspring flowers, resin and terpz no problemo. Have you find some minty chocolate carrot licorice leather coco coffee fruits?

 

[Arf]

In the same boat bro the hard is done félicitations Arf! Now you have multiple chances to find better flowers phenotype, Thaï/Laos/.. ample genetics! Airy and fluffy moms can produce different better offspring flowers, resin and terpz no problemo. Have you find some minty chocolate carrot licorice leather coco coffee fruits?

Certainly going to dig through the phenotypes. Unfortunately subtle terpene variations between phenotypes is of little interest to me, due to some viral damage to nerves, I now have a highly attenuated sense of smell, though the last Jack Herer run was a pretty obvious, strong smell to me. I have a few WW and SK#1 in flower atm, and they both smell like lavender to me when I brush them.

So I am mainly interested in how they grow, the trichomes and bud density. I have grown the Thai bag seed 4 or 5 times now indoors, not had any great problems with height, but very airy buds each time, even if I give them stupid amounts of light until they just about bleach, I think they just need massive root space which I can't provide, even then you just get bigger buds not necessarily tight bud. I can see why people cross the old sativas with indica to fatten things up indoors.

I have tried Tanzanian Magic, 3 different Durbans which are supposed to be land races, love the thin sativa leaves on most of them, but I want bud. The Dutch Passion Durban was the only one with some decent bud, and I swear it looks like it's an indica hybrid.

 

[Roms]

Yo sorry for your viral problem, maybe the aromatherapy could help to recover your sense paradoxically, if is it possible? About lavender yes good point to focus on, i know that Sour Diesel Riri cut is another strong Pinène β vibes. (Riri cut x Thaï sounds nice btw!)

So yes Thaï terpz are soft and subtle but also deep and surprising with long curing. Anyway about South Asians they have of course airy buds by nature but there's also better flowers to save i think. P1s selection game first! I know for example that too airy bud are not really good for terpz and psychoactivity property. Example with Kerala here with on the right the bad shit hemp pheno and on the left the good shit terpz, resin and flowers one..

The Proper mix to produce big bud with thin leaves is the holy grail good luck bro. Your South Africans lovin x Thaï then crossed to Thaï x indica hybrid could works!

With love dreams and time as an illusion. Peace.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Highland Thai are more minty after curing and just after harvest more lemony, what I've experienced.

Keep on growing

 

[bluntmassa]

It's totally unnecessary to use Landrace genetics exclusively.

In no other crop do breeders start from scratch every time they want to achieve a goal, you start with the most ideal lines and then work from there- rarely does this mean going back to wild or semi-wild relatives.

It can be a useful tool in the tool box to capture traits that are deemed important yet have been purged from breeding populations, but to say every breeder needs to work from Landrace stock is a stoner myth that keeps coming back, time and time again.

But ain't landraces where all the truly unique characteristics come from? Like Road Kill Skunk or Original Skunk shall we say had been bottlenecked out of existence by Sam I believe it was. So if one where to want that unique trait he should go to the landrace not Skunk #1 which the trait was bottlenecked out of existence according to Sam.

Sure breed OG x Chem and get run of the mill average dank bud. Landraces if you want something truly unique like how DJ Short got his Blueberry traits.

But I only gots me grade 8 sorry about stupid stoner myths of landraces being of great value to the future of breeding. Not sure if Resin Seeds are well educated but they have found that landrace Moroccan has a good bit of CBD. But I imagine you just went to Cannatonic and not the landrace for your CBD strain.