Greetings one and all. I am not very experienced in the Craft yet, and there is SOO much for me left to learn, this plant breeding I have decided to take as a profession is going to occupy me for the rest of my life I am sure. From I started this Journey, I have been obsessed with Landrace genetics (especially growing up and hearing about Lambsbread). Outside of my obsession, I always was of the view that in order to have a stable genetic starting point, one must use Inbred Landrace genetics (not saying there are no stable hybrids, there are many) if one is serious. Please, persons of experience and knowledge, weigh in and let me know your opinions of breeder using almost exclusively Landrace genetics to make new hybrids.
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The Importance of Landrace Genetics to the Breeder
- Thread starter Shaheed
- Start date
It's totally unnecessary to use Landrace genetics exclusively.
In no other crop do breeders start from scratch every time they want to achieve a goal, you start with the most ideal lines and then work from there- rarely does this mean going back to wild or semi-wild relatives.
It can be a useful tool in the tool box to capture traits that are deemed important yet have been purged from breeding populations, but to say every breeder needs to work from Landrace stock is a stoner myth that keeps coming back, time and time again.
In no other crop do breeders start from scratch every time they want to achieve a goal, you start with the most ideal lines and then work from there- rarely does this mean going back to wild or semi-wild relatives.
It can be a useful tool in the tool box to capture traits that are deemed important yet have been purged from breeding populations, but to say every breeder needs to work from Landrace stock is a stoner myth that keeps coming back, time and time again.
Maybe some people want an untainted germplasm and don't want to be accused of "Hacking" another breeders work.
I would rather create a strain rated a 6 or 7 on a scale of 10 using mostly or totally Landrace plants.
VS creating a strain that is 9 or 10 using feminized elite clones that have all the Terptards going crazy for.
In this case the OP is trying to grow Landrace plants to revitalize Jamaica Cannabis industry I believe
according to another thread he created. I think we all know the damage that modern Dutch Hybrids
have done to most of that island and other Landrace hot spots.
Maybe some people want an untainted germplasm and don't want to be accused of "Hacking" another breeders work.
I would rather create a strain rated a 6 or 7 on a scale of 10 using mostly or totally Landrace plants.
VS creating a strain that is 9 or 10 using feminized elite clones that have all the Terptards going crazy for.
In this case the OP is trying to grow Landrace plants to revitalize Jamaica Cannabis industry I believe
according to another thread he created. I think we all know the damage that modern Dutch Hybrids
have done to most of that island and other Landrace hot spots.
That is exactly what I was getting at, wouldn't want an industry based off the work of others....not saying it cannot be used....but a fresh set of eyes and minds may be what is needed here....yes, Dutch hybrids ROYALLY impaled the Lambsbread and Thyme Weed, etc....as soon as I pop the new seeds I bred I will start a grow journal....o btw....what does OP mean (apologies for my ignorance)
I think it would be more important to utilize line breeding to keep lines you like "pure", you inbred a cross you have made to make it stable to a true breeding line more or less, then if you keep making accession, breed to something that is not terribly dominate and cross the result back to your original accession that you wish to preserve, this way you can keep up vigour and keep the line going. Always keep seeds of every generation, make more than you think you want, say you wanted 1000, make 5000-10000, mistakes happen and if you are able to make this many extra seeds you have a lot of back up. This will take up a lot of space though, so if you're able to, it is a safe way to back your stuff up.
I agree with Chimera, you don't need to breed with landraces only, look through landrace journals here, look through ace and cannabiogen's forums and see how raw landraces often come in. You can do it but it involves a lot of work to try to cleanup and stabilize lines how you want and the you may not find something suitable at the end of it. I am not saying don't do it, you could end up with some real cool combinations, the more diverse you end up usually with bigger yields, bigger vigours but that doesn't always mean better overall. Depending on your goals should dictate weather or not you use landraces, also what you have available, inbred varieties you like to make them into inbred true breeding lines should work for everything what most people require.
I would also suggest to ask yourself these questions:
Where are the plants going to be grown (indoors, outdoors temperate climate, sub tropical, tropical, wet, dry etc)?
What is the end result (good solid strains unique to what is available, or just something faster, fatter and with more sparkles)?
Do flavour and effect have a significant role? (to me always these are the most important, you may have different criteria and I also don't breed any plants)
It may be more important while you're selecting whatever you're doing, look for pest resistance, disease resistance (good idea to plant in different areas where problems should occur and areas that they should do well and other areas where it may be so so) Then no matter what you're starting with you can have a good idea what things may be problematic for these or you can find plants that are more useful breeding the end result because they aren't as problematic.
I hope to see some of your works along the way and see how you progress along the years, exciting journey for you for sure, would love to share the excitement if permissible.
I agree with Chimera, you don't need to breed with landraces only, look through landrace journals here, look through ace and cannabiogen's forums and see how raw landraces often come in. You can do it but it involves a lot of work to try to cleanup and stabilize lines how you want and the you may not find something suitable at the end of it. I am not saying don't do it, you could end up with some real cool combinations, the more diverse you end up usually with bigger yields, bigger vigours but that doesn't always mean better overall. Depending on your goals should dictate weather or not you use landraces, also what you have available, inbred varieties you like to make them into inbred true breeding lines should work for everything what most people require.
I would also suggest to ask yourself these questions:
Where are the plants going to be grown (indoors, outdoors temperate climate, sub tropical, tropical, wet, dry etc)?
What is the end result (good solid strains unique to what is available, or just something faster, fatter and with more sparkles)?
Do flavour and effect have a significant role? (to me always these are the most important, you may have different criteria and I also don't breed any plants)
It may be more important while you're selecting whatever you're doing, look for pest resistance, disease resistance (good idea to plant in different areas where problems should occur and areas that they should do well and other areas where it may be so so) Then no matter what you're starting with you can have a good idea what things may be problematic for these or you can find plants that are more useful breeding the end result because they aren't as problematic.
I hope to see some of your works along the way and see how you progress along the years, exciting journey for you for sure, would love to share the excitement if permissible.
It's short for Original Poster.
In this case it's you Shaheed.
Thyme Weed? I have to do some Googling. I never heard of this variety. What is or was it like?
BTW: What kind of seeds are you going to pop?
In a tropical areas, I think Landraces are best left to locally adapt to the conditions present and not
be selected. In those environments over time the THC rich phenotypes will be more common than
CBD phenotypes.
Open pollination would keep everything very stable.
E
Eye
Yes it's a great idea to start your work based on pure landraces. Just forget about the indicas as indicas would not perform well in your hot, humid and tropical climate over there in Jamaica. The tight bud structure would most likely be prone to mold.
I would recommend you grow some Double Jam from Underground Seeds Company. That's as close as you'll get to the original true Jamaican genetics on the seed market.
It's commendable that you're experimenting with some Seeds of Africa genetics. You should definitely look more in depth into the African genetics as that's probably the source for most oldschool Jamaican genetics. There might also be some Asian influence in the original Lambsbread. Who knows.
Good luck in your endeavor.
I would recommend you grow some Double Jam from Underground Seeds Company. That's as close as you'll get to the original true Jamaican genetics on the seed market.
It's commendable that you're experimenting with some Seeds of Africa genetics. You should definitely look more in depth into the African genetics as that's probably the source for most oldschool Jamaican genetics. There might also be some Asian influence in the original Lambsbread. Who knows.
Good luck in your endeavor.
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Give thanks, surely I will be posting soon, hopefully in another few weeks, what I'll be doing.
Chimera, I see you are well read, I respect how you talk and how you construct your arguments, you are serious about facts. I love plants, and I love ganja, so as best as I can gather the old things and make new from them, I will, it's just a personal choice.....I believe that some of the best medicine would be produced by the old strains....I want to test the hypothesis....it is medicine we are aiming to extract. Want to learn the genetics deeply though....you willing to teach?
The grass best grown by the natives in their soil , why are we fuvking with these locals hustle? Go back to our European lighting and sour d whew
If I was growing legal as you claim to be ( no offense it's just...internet you know,I don't wan't to start you on this)I would start from the locally grown commercial whateveritisnow,seek for the good stuff on the market,chances are it doesn't come from further than St Vincent or Ste Lucie and pick my seeds from the best buds . At least you can get a huge number of seeds to start from,already aclimatized.
I think everyone will agree numbers is what changes all. I'd rather start from thousands of seeds from the local growers than from a dozen carefuly selected seeds from the best banks,wether it be landraces or cup winners hybrids.
You can be sure after your first run you will find enough gems to start from.
Peace
I think everyone will agree numbers is what changes all. I'd rather start from thousands of seeds from the local growers than from a dozen carefuly selected seeds from the best banks,wether it be landraces or cup winners hybrids.
You can be sure after your first run you will find enough gems to start from.
Peace
And he is spot on....I know Skunkman comes to my home often and probably from before I was born. Been badly wanting to meet him, been told by many who claim to know him that they would introduce me....hasn't happened.....so it goes, I will one day I'm sure
NLD/tropical variety ≠ Landrace.
I can understand and appreciate the desire to start from as "pure" of start as possible, but as Chimera has explained, its not very practical. There are very few places, especially NLDV, where landrace's exist unsullied, either by cross pollination and/or the extreme crackdown and prohibition of ganja farms over the century. You're starting from scratch, it sounds as though you have very little to no prior experience, and your funds are limited. Not trying to dissuade you from working or finding "pure" landraces, but imo it should not be a self imposed limitation when you could much more easily access existing, non dutchified, varieties that are suitable for the jamaican photoperiod and climate. You can do both, seek out the landraces you desire, but at the same time work with what you can readily access.
I would be focusing on screening and isolating populations that are accessible, that veg properly(no supp lighting), yield decently, and that are resistant against the common pathogens. Stability, cannabinoid/aroma profiles are important too.
Support and work with other independent farmers, say no to corporate farming, do not become a laborer on your own farm, find ethical and fair outlets for your produce. Protect and preserve your farms environment.
I was reading an article from Jamaica about a ganja farmers concern about the lack of export regulation at the onset of licensing, he was dismayed because already Jamaica produces enough ganja to satisfy local and tourist demand, without the ability to export the local supply will balloon and with no where to move it legally could potentially cause a drop in value and hurt the farmers livelihoods.
If you have to work with middlemen/exporters, work with those that are fair monetarily and also are going to promote your farm, brand and independence, not a bulk re-labeler/ reseller.
Use social media, use video and photo's to show off and promote your farm and farming practices. Put it out there, work in earnest and supporters will come to you.
I can understand and appreciate the desire to start from as "pure" of start as possible, but as Chimera has explained, its not very practical. There are very few places, especially NLDV, where landrace's exist unsullied, either by cross pollination and/or the extreme crackdown and prohibition of ganja farms over the century. You're starting from scratch, it sounds as though you have very little to no prior experience, and your funds are limited. Not trying to dissuade you from working or finding "pure" landraces, but imo it should not be a self imposed limitation when you could much more easily access existing, non dutchified, varieties that are suitable for the jamaican photoperiod and climate. You can do both, seek out the landraces you desire, but at the same time work with what you can readily access.
I would be focusing on screening and isolating populations that are accessible, that veg properly(no supp lighting), yield decently, and that are resistant against the common pathogens. Stability, cannabinoid/aroma profiles are important too.
Support and work with other independent farmers, say no to corporate farming, do not become a laborer on your own farm, find ethical and fair outlets for your produce. Protect and preserve your farms environment.
I was reading an article from Jamaica about a ganja farmers concern about the lack of export regulation at the onset of licensing, he was dismayed because already Jamaica produces enough ganja to satisfy local and tourist demand, without the ability to export the local supply will balloon and with no where to move it legally could potentially cause a drop in value and hurt the farmers livelihoods.
If you have to work with middlemen/exporters, work with those that are fair monetarily and also are going to promote your farm, brand and independence, not a bulk re-labeler/ reseller.
Use social media, use video and photo's to show off and promote your farm and farming practices. Put it out there, work in earnest and supporters will come to you.
I believe you misunderstand me Pangea, I am not exclusively hunting Landraces, I am also hunting what works. We have found NLDs here in Jamaica that are not "Lambsbread" but beautiful, high yielding "Sativas" with long, hanging, heavily serrated, lime green leaves. Some with a tight bud structure and some with more open buds, but with large pronounced calyxes, all varieties heavily trichome laden. It's not me trying to be a snob or some kind of poser, but rather to test a hypothesis and get people's opinion at the same time.....I am largely at fault too, I simply did not articulate my goals in a sensible fashion and for that I apologise to the entire ICMag forum. Please, let us work together to preserve a plant we love and need. Jamaica has the ability to be the Baghdad of Ganja (even though the government seems not to want it). Pangea we can figure out how I can get you to see a letter I and the winner of the first Jamaica Cannabis Cup wrote to the executives of the Cannabis Licensing Authority....we know the issues, we want to work with intelligent people to work this ridiculous issues out.....waddaya all say?
Also....it is a myth we are producing enough....if one considers the 95% of Jamaican produce that is complete and utter garbage as being enough, then that one is mediocre at best in his thinking. People want the best they can get, and as you said, best practices draw attention. Let's work together.
Out of curiosity.
What's the estimated maximum number of plants you can grow where your at?
I hope you have help over there to spread any work that may do far and wide across the islands there.
We can grow unlimited amounts, problem is resources. As for spreading the work to the islands, we pray that day will come soon. We are trying.
Lambsbread is a heirloom variety, but you can better ask the guys of Cannabiogen if they still have the Jamaican Blue Mountain in stock, another heirloom from Jamaica.
Keep on growing
