The IC Organic Growers Community Thread.

[xmobotx]

there's no worries on dominating. that's what it's for; sharing & chatting about what works.

the hen mix {which i have also used} kind of doubles as a little drainage when applied like that. the Ca isn't as available so, you don't want to rely on it for liming entirely. you'll still see it separate out after several months if not a few years & still be oyster shell. it does eventually go away ~kind of like rice hulls. they are good for drainage but break down over time to provide silica among other things.

you can be more generous w/ it & get that versatility but, you may not find it's giving you the full benefit we get from the likes of the pacific pearl flour. grinding it up would move you in that direction. but, the flour is a fossilized product & much more like a CaCO3 lime {which you could also use ~just not the fast acting stuff}

you want the powders w/ gypsum/oyster & you need to watch for alfalfa pellets to have sodium. the rabbit feed types can be a little salty for our soil. alaska fish is fish emulsion. the tea likes the hydrolysate. but, i don;t use that & many others do not either. the CT recipe we like is that vermi(compost) & molasses bubbled in water for about 24 hours. Many others will add a little kelp or the hydrolysate like the more extensive recipe but you do notice that it is very little of these

 

[Sluicebox]

Ya the Wife was real happy coming home last night to see me using her back up coffee grinder for the Oyster Shell, lol. She said if our daily grinder goes out I'll be grinding my coffee by hand. I put 1/3-1/2c each of the Oyster Flour and Gypsum pellets on as a top dress and watered in with the Alaska Fish. Hunting later today for the vermipost down by the barn. They went deep for the winter, but I should be able to find the compost they've made in the past. I know next to the barn is usually a hot spot for them.

BTW the healthy plants that I tp into the 7 gal with new mix are thriving. The ones that were sick are just starting to respond, most have perked back up but a few are still droopy aside from the very tops of the plants. The growing shoots look normal. Hopefully rest of plant perks up soon. I did hit them with neem oil and Gognats as soon as I brought them home. No longer seeing the fliers (fungus gnats), but the plants didn't care for the treatment.

Good news about vermipost making a better tea than the fish fert, I can't stand that stuff. Pretty funny back in the day I used that for gorilla grow in the mountains. I had a tupperware container of that fish fert in my back pack and some one broke into our car and stole it (the backpack). I am quite certain they opened it while driving down the road. Also sure they got it on themselves while trying to throw it out the window. (grins)

 

[xmobotx]

lol, no doubt about it, that stuff isn't what you want to be smelling. i had the joyous event where i shook it & the lid came off ~getting some on me & all over. the more you pour, the more you smell it. i don;t use it anymore BTW

sounds good that they like the new mix. you do know that neem oil sprayed in the light will cause problems? best to do all your foliar/IPM spray just before lights out but neem is pretty destructive in the light

our 1st coffee grinder was expensive, one w/ a hopper & it metered out enough for a pot at a time. broke down in short order too. the last coffee grinder we bought was 12 or 14 bucks. shouldn't be too hard to get 1 for the garden or a new 1 for the wife

 

[Sluicebox]

Quick update on my worm hunt. I have been digging and not finding. I have a high water table near barn. At 1.5' I hit water, worms would drown. I came back up and did a search on where composting worms go in the Winter (how deep.) Turns out they don't, they die. Only the eggs remain, for next year.

So here is a question. Do I want the muck that has eggs in it? Or the rich black looking stuff that looks more like a worked pile? Has more of a casting look to it (crumbly), not nearly as sticky. I figured that the worms would leave their eggs in a spot that had enough food for the newly hatched to eat. Guessing I want the crumbly.

As far as the sickly plants go, I am seeing great improvement. No where near as droopy. Weird that only the skinny leafed varieties of different strains showed droop. Now more than 60% of the plant on avg has perked back up. Can't wait for the soil to dry out a bit so I can water with tea.

Also in my other flower room it seemed like the buds had stalled out, FFOF and Chem ferts. I had extra mixed fish fert last night and poured 1 qt on each plant and by this morning they had resumed bud production. Each cola now has a thimble sized nug growing out the top of it (day 46 12/12). Not sure what stalled them, but can't wait to get that one down and toss the chems.

 

[xmobotx]

you want fresh worm castings. if you can identify castings in your native soil & accumulate enough that would be OK but if it's a time of dormancy where you are, that isn't going to be best ~may be better than commercial {depending on the source}

the spring is a good time to get your inputs ready. right now, you're likely to improve your process but not see the real benefits yet

 

[Sluicebox]

Saw your tea maker on you tube. The bottom where you have the pvc tee, one side has the bushing with the air line, opposite of that remains open? And the air just goes up the riser? Read another article out there on b.a.s. that had your video posted. My air pump is only 127gph so going to have to wait on making tea anyway. Did finally find a protected area where there were a bunch of red worms hiding but nothing like normal. So ya your right, use commercial till Spring. Cleaner anyway.

You could answer this for me though. If I brew a small batch with this small pump, 2 air stones.

2 gal water
3/4 c castings
1/6 c molasses
24-36 hr brew

Is that fed direct or can I dilute by adding the 2 gal tea to 3 gal water for 5 gal total?

 

[fatx]

good thread

 

[Sluicebox]

Welcome to the Forums fatx.

 

[xmobotx]

yeah, do small batches. it's a some is better than none thing

seems like i was using 1/2c compost & a shot of molasses to 4 gallons. formerly brewed w/ aquarium pumps too

 

[Sluicebox]

Hello,
Sorry but gotta hit you up again. So that soil mix went into 3 different rooms, flower A, flower b and veg. In the veg room I am seeing what looks like white beard mycelium on top of the soil. I looked that up and it sounds like a good thing, however many posted to remove it. I took a pinch and threw it in my tea batch along with handful of grass hay, alfalfa pellets,native moss (with roots and soil) and lichen and a shelf shroom that was growing on my oak wood pile. Couldn't find a spotted horned frog, lol maybe next time.

Anyway back to the white beard, I don't see it yet in the other two rooms. Flower A got a 1/3 c each of oyster and gypsum. That is the only difference other than much more light in the flower rooms. Would it be wise to take a pinch of that and inoculate the other rooms with it? Maybe just cover it with a bit of soil? Should I cover the white beard in the veg room with some dry seedling mix? In an effort not to attract gnats? I haven't seen any yet but heard they are not far behind once you do.

I'm trying to ask sensible questions here only after a long search on my own. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[xmobotx]

i wouldn't worry about that being there or not. no need to inoculate it & no need to remove it either

"many" are afraid of anything living in their soil. makes it kind of difficult for them to do living soil

 

[VortexPower420]

Sluice. I like your diverse tea. I wouldn't worry about the white stuff. In this reality of organics living things are your friends and your partner. Treat your soil right and it will treat you right.

I maybe on the fringe with this but I fear no fungus gnats. I have seen a few here and there but never more than a few and most of the time from other people plants.

I have mulch, keep them moist and regularly have produce breaking down and becoming worm food in my pots. All the perfect vectors for such problems and I have none.

I thank my thriving soil food web. Get as many diverse sources of material as.possible. Go for walks in the woods and grab little bits of rotting trees, stumps, leaf litter and humus from as many sources as possible and add them under my mulch. I have seen new creatures move into my pots after a walk somewhere new. It's awesome to watch.

Your on the right track with the moss and fungi, don't worry about getting it in all at once. It gets better with age and love. Feed the soil not the plant, and dont forget feed the wormies too. Diversity is key and makes pest problems a breeze.

 

[heady blunts]

hehe check out coast of maine's latest product:

Stonington Blend Platinum Growers Mix

Stonington Blend™ is a rich mixture of horticultural grade sphagnum peat, cocoa fiber (coir), lobster compost, composted dark bark, dehydrated hen manure, perlite, worm castings and a mixture of meals (kelp, alfalfa, fish bone), mycorrhizae and dolomitic limestone to adjust pH.

 

[BusinessFactory]

I'm going into my second round of 15 gallon no till pots, I only added some EWC mid flower the first round. What would you guys recommend to top dress with in addition to EWC?

I was thinking maybe something like this for each pot (15g / 2 cu ft)
1 c Kelp Meal
1 c Crab Meal
1 c Some sort of rock dust or other minerals?
Anything else I should consider adding? Plants faded at the end but not too bad and turned out to be a great harvest...not really sure how to adjust from that.

 

[Sluicebox]

I'm going into my second round of 15 gallon no till pots, I only added some EWC mid flower the first round. What would you guys recommend to top dress with in addition to EWC?

I was thinking maybe something like this for each pot (15g / 2 cu ft)
1 c Kelp Meal
1 c Crab Meal
1 c Some sort of rock dust or other minerals?
Anything else I should consider adding? Plants faded at the end but not too bad and turned out to be a great harvest...not really sure how to adjust from that.

I'm as new to it as you are so seek other's advice. Not sure on your amounts. I would think those would be great maybe add neem seed meal,gypsum, oyster flour and mix with lots of FRESH EWC and some molasses/water.

I've been harvesting fresh ewc near the barn and it's teaming with life. I even added live worms to my fabric pots. Feed them under a layer of mulch. They're eating and healthy, lively worms. Brew a tea to feed soil. I have some of the happiest plants I've ever grown. Nice green color and leaves are huge and fuzzy like felt. I'm never going back to chems.

Curious how your product turned out. Flavor, nose, density, smoke?

Not sure but sounds like if you had added more ewc you wouldn't have faded. They should get just about everything they need from ewc alone. Everything else you add is just bonus for the life in the soil. Try a pot with live worms, 20 or so per pot, your containers are plenty big enough at 15 gal. Just about anyone with horses will have what your looking for. Make sure you feed them under a mulch. Likely wouldn't have to feed them for a while, but throw them a goody anyway. May be best to wait on adding live worms till you see how your amendments play out.

I found something on fresh ewc that said they are loaded with beneficial nematodes. I can't confirm that with a second source but I was really stoked when I read about it. If I remember right it wasn't that the ewc had them inside but rather the environment they are found in is loaded. Euro Night crawlers would be better suited for a warm room. Though I have both and are doing just fine.

I would think no till would require a living soil to work properly.

1 cup of Kelp might be a little hot for a top dress under mulch. Maybe 1/2 c Kelp and 1/2 c Neem seed meal instead. You can always add more later. Ewc/alfalfa tea rocks!

As I said seek confirmation from someone else, good luck to you.

 

[BusinessFactory]

Curious how your product turned out. Flavor, nose, density, smoke?

Not sure but sounds like if you had added more ewc you wouldn't have faded. They should get just about everything they need from ewc alone.

The buds turned out to be my best yet and it would be hard to convince me you could grow these genetics any better. Smoke and taste is excellent!

I actually did do at least 1" top dress of EWC about halfway through flower and they still faded out. I'm pretty sure that was just the natural senescence and not a lack of nutrients. Guess I'll find out more as I get a couple more rounds under my belt!

 

[Sluicebox]

The buds turned out to be my best yet and it would be hard to convince me you could grow these genetics any better. Smoke and taste is excellent!

I actually did do at least 1" top dress of EWC about halfway through flower and they still faded out. I'm pretty sure that was just the natural senescence and not a lack of nutrients. Guess I'll find out more as I get a couple more rounds under my belt!

That's awesome! I guess the trick then would be to figure out what she depleted and put it back into your soil.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but only an inch of ewc in a 15 gal sounds just a bit low. I've read many research papers on it and the general agreement is 20% by volume is optimal. Not a real noticeable difference in higher levels until you exceed 60% then it works against you.

They are by nature slow release though and the amount you added should still have been working at the end. Fwiw mine have always dropped leaves at the end (chem fertz.) Your only issue was minor fade, that in itself is amazing. I would be very happy with that.

In addition you state that it was some of your best yet. Hell ya! That makes me happy. Mines still going so can't wait to try. I was worried that there would be an off taste or unflushed quality. I feel better now, so thanks for that.

The smart ones should be along soon to help on rebuilding your soil. Congrats on your success.

 

[xmobotx]

a cup to 15 gallons would be more than 3 times the amount i typically recommend {tsp/gal} the minerals should already be in your soil.

ultimately, your fan leaves, stems & any waste from living mulch should either be applied as mulch throughout the cycle or composted & re-applied once you run it through your worm bin ~close the loop

i've found i like to shred the stems & use them as mulch ~obviously something like barley straw is a good choice to get started but as you begin to generate these things, you realize they are a boon & not a disposal problem.

 

[BusinessFactory]

Ah yeah I've been composting all my leaves but I do need more mulch. I'm going to chop up the stems and branches I have and use that for now. Good idea! Sounds like I should start with a 1/3 or 1/2 cup of each per pot. I'll also go even lighter on the neem/karanja. Thanks for the help.

 

[Sluicebox]

I guess this question fits here. Is it okay to use the water shoots I prune from my fruit trees as indoor plant stakes? The shoots I'm pruning off the Pears in particular look perfect for the task. 4 ft long and diameter of a thick pencil.

I did notice some kind of scab looking growth on them though. I thought I could shave them and let dry for a few days. Dip them in bleach water and use them to stake my plants? I'm just trying to save some money and use a natural alternative. These are free and I have several hundred per tree. I realize they wont last all that long but any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Update 6/9/16
If you choose to do this figure out how to treat the water shoot some how for mold. I had WPM really bad after using these for stakes. When I was cleaning out room I saw white powdery mildew on all those stakes I used. I didn't bleach them or anything.