The IC Organic Growers Community Thread.

[VortexPower420]

Lucky you with a huge pile of poop. Use that, if the worms are digging it the plant will to.

I would mix all of you base ingredients with you rock dust, Ca amendments, clays etc and the add the Neem, kelp and chicken shit ontop with a nice layer of worm rich compost.

You will no have to worry a out burning or it still "cookin" as most of those amendments will break down slowly on top with the help of worms.

 

[I wood]

Alfalfa was the main reason I ever "cooked" my soil, I started leaving that out and have used right away way without any issues at all.
Root aphids suck but can only go so long without something to suck on. Their eggs can go up to six months I read somewhere.
I used this info to rid myself of them without spraying anything.
Bagged up all dirt and started over at other end of building with clean clones in a newly built room. Oven baked the dirt I needed in the waiting period and reused the old stuff after six months as I normally would have.
I tried everything organic on the old perpetual garden as the new one got going ra free, nothing worked very well. Rosemary oil showed the most promise.
My point is that if you put your castings/manure inside to rest somewhere for six months there should be no root aphid issues.

 

[Sluicebox]

Thanks VP420 and I wood.

I thought RA's gave live birth, no eggs. Would Fungus Gnats be a problem? Or would the nice Organic mix keep the plant healthy enough that the gnats would not be a problem?

I found a nice 50/50 blend of compost and sandy loam for $30 per yard/cu. The lady at the recycling center said the compost is teaming with life, worms etc. They are also able to do a custom blend for a $2 per yard fee where they mix in any additives I want. She said give her a list and they will purchase ingredients to mix in. For the first two I will just mix it at home. But for my outdoor 24+ yards I'm gonna have them do it later this spring.

Edit: I just called the recycling center back and they will mix my ingredients in if I bring them with me $2 per yd! (grins)

Have to double check some recipes but was just going to add peat moss and perlite plus my additives and vermipost. Nice that I can just layer that on top.

Really leaning toward going this route, wish me luck on the bugs. 15 gal per plant 12 plants, all organic, first time going no salts. Thanks for the help folks, take care and be safe.
R.

 

[I wood]

Root aphids can adapt to their environment with five different forms.
Kind of beautiful in their own evil way.

 

[Sluicebox]

I guess you could call them beautiful, I hate the bastards. I swear the gov or some big company monsatan or such is droppin them on us in the legal states. Particularly Russet Mites. Most folks ran into these critters rarely before everyone voted yes on green. Likely it's just being passed back and forth in dirty cuttings and unclean dirt in bags.

Changed my mind on the cheap mix. Just picked up some nursery pots from a guy and was asking about soil. He said what ever you do don't buy bulk from that place as it's full of plastics, doll heads etc. No way could it be considered Organic. Chems in it killed his friends crop. So back to bagged for me unfortunately, till I source a new supplier.

Only thing I found to work on RA's was an Orthene/Riptide dunk. Burned all the plants that didn't get up potted after treatment. Any veg that was on the plant at time of treatment fell off eventually. Had a whole strain herm on me. Other strain now growing 3 finger leaves, worried that may herm as well. Next time I get them, not going to fight them just chuck everything and start over. No sense taking a chance indoor on cheap soil with spendy seeds. Sucks but maybe later this year I can afford red meat with a bone in it, lol. Been a while.

 

[Chloemobile]

I used OG Biowar to treat root aphids with great success. Foliar pack as a drench. Turned them all into petrified fungus carcasses.

 

[Sluicebox]

Thanks Cloemobile, so by using that OG Biowar that doesn't ruin the Organics of the soil what I mean is that stuff is all natural right? Will it kill any beneficials in the soil like worms, nematodes and such? I looked into that stuff once and wished now that I'd went that route. Would be nice to just add it as a precaution. Glad you killed them! Sounds like you only needed the Foliar Pack and not both Foliar and Root Pack?

 

[Sluicebox]

Anyone care to take a shot at this? Here is what I picked up today.

50 lbs CalPril Calcium Carbonate
Down to Earth Products
6 lb box Azomite 0-0-0.2
5 lb Kelp Meal 1-0.1-2
5 lb Crab Meal 4-3-0
5 lb Neem Seed Meal 6-1-2
50 lb CalPhos 0-3-0 Soft rock sulfate? Clay?
50 lb KMS 0-0-21.5 Potassium Magnesium sulfate

4 ft/cu Coco (rinsed)
8 ft/cu Perlite regular, couldn't afford the coarse.
6 ft/cu FF Happy Frog Soil
6 ft/cu Sphagnum Peat Moss
3 ft/cu Composted Steer Manure
Unlimited raw worm compost. Old black pile of composted Horse Manure loaded with worms. Have no idea how to use this, I would love to have live worms in the pots if possible, 7 and 15 gal pots will be used.

I was thinking that I'd mix all the soil ingredients with 9 ft/cu vermicompost. That would give me 36 ft/cu of soil mix. I really only need 27 ft/cu of mixed soil at this time. The rest can go into a barrel or two to cook. That would be 25% vermicompost in the mix. I could add more if you all think I should. Didn't know if I should use all that Steer Manure or none at
all.

Completely clueless on the addition of the minerals. Some threads say add 1 c per ft/3. I have no idea how much of which to add. I'd really hate to pull a newb mistake here and guess by myself the measurements. Really looking for a safe general amount that would give fairly good results. I won't hold anyone responsible for any advice given. If more of anything is needed is there anyway that I could top dress with it later?

I know this probably frustrates many of you as you see these kind of posts all the time.
Newbie to Organics that hasn't a clue and has not read the full 48 page sticky yet. I mean no disrespect to any of you. I will read all I can when I have time.

I would love to be able to plant into this mix same day and forgo the cook if possible. Plants are root bound bad and 4' tall. I have heard that I could up pot them using only the worm compost giving the soil mix some time to cook. But these really need flipped now. I didn't raise them, just trying to save them. The guy was going to get rid of them anyway. I felt sorry for the plants.

I am so stoked to start growing this way, and produce a superior product to the salts that I'm used to. I have some high end seeds that I'm excited to try in Organics. All my old grows were in straight FFOF, using powdered chem fertz. Bodhi's seeds deserve more respect than that.

If there is anything critical that I missed with my purchase please let me know. As well as whether it can be top dressed later.

I deeply appreciate any help you kind folks want to give me as far as advice.
Sorry If I violated this thread. If the mods want they can delete this and I'll start another.

Thanks again.
R.

 

[Granger2]

Rather than CaCO3, I'd recommend Gypsum.

RA's reproduce by egg laying by the winged form, but their most prolific way is the female wingless form giving live birth to already pregnant females. Good luck. -granger

 

[xmobotx]

^^^particularly w/ crab & cal-phos in the mix. i go a step further & mix oyster/gypsum 50-50 @ "liming" levels {of course, i micro-dose the crab & foliar the cal-phos}

oyster being CaCO3

 

[Sluicebox]

Thanks xMobotx, Granger2,

So omit the CalPril.
1/4 cup of each mineral per ft/3 is that ok for a start? I will go get Oyster/Gypsum right now. Liming levels? Seems that peat/coco is pretty acidic especially with all the manure added in.

 

[Terpz]

I used OG Biowar to treat root aphids with great success. Foliar pack as a drench. Turned them all into petrified fungus carcasses.

Just to clarify, you used the foliar pack as a root drench? OGBioWar has a root pack as well as foliar. Did you mean you used the foliar pack as well as root pack?

 

[Chloemobile]

Just to clarify, you used the foliar pack as a root drench? OGBioWar has a root pack as well as foliar. Did you mean you used the foliar pack as well as root pack?

It was confusing advice when it was first given to me also but, for clarity: I Used the foliar pack as both a root drench and Foliar spray.

 

[xmobotx]

Sluicebox 1/4 cup is a little light for mineral amendments. the usual is 1c/cubic ft & 1/2 c works fine too.
if you're using 3 or 4 liming amendments, 1/4 would be fine & same if you have that kind of diversity of rock manure {rock manure IS dirt so extra makes little difference}

1/2 c is normal for "feed" amendments & 1/4 would be OK there. it depends how long the list is for both however.
same here, if you have a lot of "feed" amendments, using less is the way to go. too much of these will be bad for sure ~less is more

 

[Sluicebox]

Thanks xmobotx,
Seriously thanks, won't let me up rep you, otherwise I would.

I've been mixing all night and it's worked out to just under 1/3c of each per ft/3. Lighter on the happy frog plant food, and the kms 0-0-21.5. I omitted the calpril altogether. Hope I can top dress Oyster and Gypsum by tilling it into the top 3-4'' before the roots get established. Plan on doing that tomorrow night. I didn't use the worm dirt either. I hadn't been down to look at that pile for a long time and when I turned it over with my shovel there were no worms at all. Didn't know if they were wintering deeper. I did see Night Crawlers in the dirt but no red ones. It was getting pretty dark by then so I couldn't see whether there were eggs or castings in the dirt. Just had a bad feeling about adding that outdoor soil to an indoor grow. I filled a large wheel barrow with what looked to be good composted manure that I can make tea with. I left 3" at the top of the pots to add whatever later. Should be enough between the Happy Frog and Composted Steer Manure to get them going. There's about a 1/2+ gal of Steer Manure per 14g mix.

Pretty pissed off at the grow shop for selling me the Happy Frog Fertilizer, not Organic. Neither was the coco mix. That's Tuper Natural and Organic Royal Gold mix. It's Coco fiber, aged forest materials, perlite, and crushed basalt. Bottom of the bag in fine print,
"Not for use in Organic crop production or Organic food production." I specifically told them that I was there to build an Organic soil. They recommended everything I got. Should have known when I saw the bong and 1/4 oz laying on the counter plus the garfield eyes, that I need to double check everything. They told me for $18 more I wouldn't have to rinse a brick of Coir. Live and learn, pretty sure it will be much better than sraight FFOF, that stuff has been junk lately. Nothing against those who are able to smoke on the job, good for you. Just figured those who run a grow shop would know more about Organics. I get the fact though that Organics hurts their business, as one wouldn't need to buy all the chems on a regular basis. Their weed looked like shit by the way.

I should be able to locate those red wrigglers below the pile tomorrow and rinse them without drowning them, then add to my pots? Till in a lil neem seed meal for them to eat? Top dress with a mulch?

Anyway thanks again, gotta get back at it.

PS if anyone has a recommendation for a good Organics Shop in the Salem, Or area let me know please.
R.

 

[Sluicebox]

Hate to whine but that took forever. 24x7gal 10x5gal 5x1gal. Had about 4ft/3 left over and split it between two empty peat moss bags. Added about 1.5gal of well water to each bag and rolled up tight to cook. I'll be looking for a poly cement mixer, or researching building a soil mixer for sure. Couldn't imagine mixing 25+ yards for outdoor. Probably be easier outside on a tarp with two people piling all the mix for one yard in the middle. Then pulling the corners and rolling the mix. I had to do it in a 20 gal rubber tub.

 

[Mikell]

Eh, grow stores are no different than any other. I don't go into Best Buy and ask the pimply kids what they think I need

Know what you need, get 'er and go.

And pay. That part is crucial.

 

[Granger2]

You can rent cement mixers. -granger

 

[Sluicebox]

Hey I have a White Oak I think that's what it is. Anyway the trunk had split decades ago and now there is this black composted powder crud in the hollow trunk. I had read on here (I think) that stuff is golden when it comes to plants. Some kind of hormone or something? Also have a large Maple with the same thing going on, old decomposed tree material I guess? Or maybe it's something the tree is producing to protect itself. I can reach in and scoop out hand fulls of the stuff. Anyone know what I'm talking about? As well as uses in the garden? Indoor/Outdoor? Many thanks.

Edit, I looked it up and it's not good at all especially in a high humidity environment. Once you have it, can never get rid of it. Attacks many plant species. "Heart Rot"

 

[Sluicebox]

I just picked up 50# gypsum (pelletized), and 50# oyster (crushed hen laying mix) being how I didn't have it when I mixed my soil can I top dress 1/3 c (per 7 gal container) each? Do I need to grind the oyster to flour? Also grabbed 50# alfalfa pellets and Alaska fish for tea. Will go back in thread and read up on making that. I don't mean to dominate your thread, sorry for that.