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The how to and why fors of CO2 supplementation for growers
- Thread starter Lazyman
- Start date
Yep that's correct. I haven't seen any other setup like that on here, but I'm going to do it because it makes sense logically. To me anyway.
"Ah no, it's just hot air, get rid of it, or keep it, but don't try and recirculate it through an AC. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant! "
ok i got a pic to help you understand.
ok you can see the outside unit... that runs the cold/hot line into the grow room to the "indoor air handler" which is the thing with that silver ducting all the way threw the room...
in that pic you can see indoor air handler has a square in the bottom. where all hot air goes back into. then tthat machine takes the hot air and runs it back outside while the cold air comes back into the room...
thats how the guy explained it to me...
so now that you got a visual does what i said make more sense??
thanksss...
spastic- i agree. it does seem to make sinse aslong as ^ works like it should. and sinse that ac unit is like 4 g's i think it should
discuss??
ok i got a pic to help you understand.
ok you can see the outside unit... that runs the cold/hot line into the grow room to the "indoor air handler" which is the thing with that silver ducting all the way threw the room...
in that pic you can see indoor air handler has a square in the bottom. where all hot air goes back into. then tthat machine takes the hot air and runs it back outside while the cold air comes back into the room...
thats how the guy explained it to me...
so now that you got a visual does what i said make more sense??
thanksss...
spastic- i agree. it does seem to make sinse aslong as ^ works like it should. and sinse that ac unit is like 4 g's i think it should
discuss??
ItsAllOver
Devil's Advocate
Hey, so I was just in here seeing what's new and this got me thinking.
You know, if you have a "sealed" room which you admit is almost guaranteed to have some areas of air leakage (anyone up for doing blower door tests?) and you are blowing through your hoods with the assumption that the only air exchange will be into the grow area because you are creating a positive pressure system inside the hoods, which have leaks of their own by your initial assumption, what is the result going to be? It will be a positively pressurized grow space, and remembering that it is surely not entirely sealed, you'll be blowing odor and CO2 out of the little cracks in the room. I think that if you are intending to air cool your lights in a CO2 setup, you should use fans as they work best, which is pulling, and you should ensure that your duct work is not leaky... Not too hard, but it means you'll have to spend some time making sure your hood lens gaskets are good and that you properly connect your ducting...
A better alternative, in some situations, would be to use some IceBoxes to A/C your room. I'm new to these things, but I think they might just be what I need when I go sealed in about a month...
Take care of yoselves...
As I said in another thread, if you pull air through the lights, you are sucking hot air (bad for the fan) and most centrifugal fans are more efficient at pushing. If your ductwork leaks enough to affect the atmospheric pressure of the room, you've done a poor job ducting.
Backpressure is bad, if you have too many lights in a row, or use too small a fan, more velocity can increase pressure to a point where it can cause ducting to fail catastrophically. A properly designed air system can be efficient and properly sealed, and have only a positive impact on the room.
Iceboxes are pretty cool, did you see digitalhippys conversion thread?
Perhaps this a more appropriate place for this question. I read the entire thread and was super helpful although recently, I purchased a BCNL Producer (click here for more info on the Producer cab) and BCNL claims that they have tested out the levels to ensure 1600 PPM levels (it is done with a regulator and timer)
BCNL suggests for some reason not to use co2 until after the second wk of flowering and only after the roots are well established and the plant is looking healthy. In fact, they even go as far as to put this information in a warning box inside the manual as you will see if you click on my link to it here
I can understand the, "not until plants look healthy and have established rooting system developed" part however, what would be the reason if any that they would suggest waiting til after the 2nd wk of flowering to start with the co2?
Anyone?
I plan on calling them up on Monday but from experience I noticed that their support staff do not always have the answers to detailed questions and that they only follow instructions since most the time they are not the originators of the material in the manual so I posted it here as well....
I'm on day 2 right now of flowering and eagerly want to crank the CO2 since my temps and RH are finally dialed hitting 28.5*C during the day which according to Jorge Cervantes is the ideal temp (well, 29*C actiually he says) for reaping the bene's of CO2 and are looking really healthy... This may be a touch too hot however for non-CO2 whcih is why I really want to crank it now, but I'm trying to be patient as I want to make sure I'm not doing doing something potentially harmful...
Any thoughts or comments on this are extremely helpful and appreciated
BCNL suggests for some reason not to use co2 until after the second wk of flowering and only after the roots are well established and the plant is looking healthy. In fact, they even go as far as to put this information in a warning box inside the manual as you will see if you click on my link to it here
I can understand the, "not until plants look healthy and have established rooting system developed" part however, what would be the reason if any that they would suggest waiting til after the 2nd wk of flowering to start with the co2?
Anyone?
I plan on calling them up on Monday but from experience I noticed that their support staff do not always have the answers to detailed questions and that they only follow instructions since most the time they are not the originators of the material in the manual so I posted it here as well....
I'm on day 2 right now of flowering and eagerly want to crank the CO2 since my temps and RH are finally dialed hitting 28.5*C during the day which according to Jorge Cervantes is the ideal temp (well, 29*C actiually he says) for reaping the bene's of CO2 and are looking really healthy... This may be a touch too hot however for non-CO2 whcih is why I really want to crank it now, but I'm trying to be patient as I want to make sure I'm not doing doing something potentially harmful...
Any thoughts or comments on this are extremely helpful and appreciated
Yeah, in small cabs (with little to no veg time) rooted cuttings are flowered as is. When given some more veg time (when they establish roots) this precaution isn't needed. The flowering delay for CO2 is probably because they're trying to reduce stretch, but this won't affect every strain the same way. If you have a stretchy strain I'd use Phosphoload or Bushmaster to tame the size, or prune them.
"Ah no, it's just hot air, get rid of it, or keep it, but don't try and recirculate it through an AC. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant! "
spastic- i agree. it does seem to make sinse aslong as ^ works like it should. and sinse that ac unit is like 4 g's i think it should
discuss??
From the way you explained your diagram the hot air is still being processed and cooled by the ac unit as a closed system. I have multi split units that recirculate the air. All A/C's recirculate the air to cool it. The hot air is going to be in the room whether or not I decide to air cool the lights. I'm just blowing it away from the top of the plants and into another part of the room. Air cooled or not the A/C is still going to be working exatcly the same because there is the same amount of heat being produced and it's not going anywhere because CO2 conversation is the key. The only difference is your lights are closer to the plants. In a CGE your A/C takes the place of air cooling your lights.
intlplayr: Lazyman is probably right. Veg growth is explosive with CO2. I could see the plants outgrowing that BCNL cab pretty easily if you vegged with CO2.
Thanks for the quick reply guys.
Glad to hear there is no harm in hammerin'em with some CO2 right away. Just for clarification, I received the partially rooted clones in jiffy's on the 7th and they've been veggin under 24 hr T5's up until 2 days ago. Now they're roots are showing outside of the 3 inch rock wool cubes and I put them into 12/12 inside the cabs as soon as they started showing the roots outside the 3 inchers. I assume that's enough rootage? I'm growin PK which I believe is known to stretch a bit but I guess like you said I can always tame the stretch with a little phosphoload or bushmaster or even prune / tie / scrog if need be, ya?
Thanks again guys...
Glad to hear there is no harm in hammerin'em with some CO2 right away. Just for clarification, I received the partially rooted clones in jiffy's on the 7th and they've been veggin under 24 hr T5's up until 2 days ago. Now they're roots are showing outside of the 3 inch rock wool cubes and I put them into 12/12 inside the cabs as soon as they started showing the roots outside the 3 inchers. I assume that's enough rootage? I'm growin PK which I believe is known to stretch a bit but I guess like you said I can always tame the stretch with a little phosphoload or bushmaster or even prune / tie / scrog if need be, ya?
Thanks again guys...
S
sparkjumper
Man if you're plant isnt healthy and the rootzone isnt established when you go to flower then you are growing much differently than me.Maybe they are talking about throwing cuts directly into 12/12 without any vegtime.Even in this instance the worst scenario is the co2 isnt used,but it certainly wont hurt them.When I go to flower my plants they are usually 3 ft or so,I'm not growing a plant that doesnt give at least 1/4 lb
Man, you veg til 3 ft tall? you must yield huge! I wonder what your yield ends up being per sq ft. How many plants can you fit under 1 light?
The cabs only leave 3ft high of growing space and ya, the more I hear the more I think that you're right and that they are just taking a precautionary measure by mentioning it in a warning box and speaking to people who may be just throwing the cuts into a the cabs and flowering.
Although now that I think about it, in their grow manual they do suggest that the grower leaves the plants in veg until the plants are 5-8 inches high and suggest that this is the general rule of thumb to ensure the plants don't touch the glass ceiling covering the air cooled light...
Makes me wonder. Switching the co2 on today on one of them anyways possibly 2 if I can find that T splitter.
The nice thing about having 3 of these is that I can produce pretty quality controlled tests. Perhaps I should test this variable but I really don't want to mess with any yields if the unanimous conclusion is to just use the co2 anyways...
Randybobandy
Member
Intake fan AND exuast fans on lights. You will equalize the pressure. Plus a small hand tube of clear silicone works wonders on hoods. Also many people don't use duct sealent. Its at any hardware store. You goop it on with a paint brush. Those cracks/spaces on duct elbows and soforth can really mess up a "sealed" room. My room is sealed but i have an intake and an exhaust. Both 150cfm on the lowest rehostat setting. This ensures a slight vacuum. That means any air that comes out of the room will be scrubed(out the filter). Got a huge filter running 24/7 of course though. Doesent effect c02 consumption that much suprisingly. I use tanks and natural gas in the same set up. That way if my tanks run out my levels are still high becuase the natural gasis always there. The tanks bring the co2 levels fast. The generator is so slow. If the lights are on the co2 should be up there. The mini exhuast makes me feel better about any unburt natural gas or biproducts from it as well.
Randybobandy
Member
Sneakingman check out kwikool.com. I have one of the air cooled units and i love it. I got one so no one would wonder why i had the a/c blazzing in the winter. Ran a tube off it along the middle of my room like the pic you posted.
From there website-
"Many spot coolers claim to be portable air conditioners, but in fact they are not. To be an air conditioner, the condenser's inlet MUST be isolated from the conditioned space. In other words, if the unit only has one condenser duct (an outlet) then it is a spot cooler.....not air conditioning!!"
They rock and they can be moved with ease. The one your looking at looks pretty badass
though.
From there website-
"Many spot coolers claim to be portable air conditioners, but in fact they are not. To be an air conditioner, the condenser's inlet MUST be isolated from the conditioned space. In other words, if the unit only has one condenser duct (an outlet) then it is a spot cooler.....not air conditioning!!"
They rock and they can be moved with ease. The one your looking at looks pretty badass
though.
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CO2 will never hurt your plants at 1600pm no matter what stage of growth they are at. They simply just don't use the excess CO2.
Well Im convinced how well CO2 works. I don't have any weight increase estimates but the results are obvious from my currently finishing crop. Even "popcorn" buds are nugs now. Very nice! Do it the right way from the start and don't mind the startup expense. It's worth it!
S
sparkjumper
Intlplayr I have an 8 by 8 room with 3 1K vertizontals that I always pull five but usually six pounds or so with a decent indica.I flower 8 3 gal pots per 1K vertizontal.Its not unusual to do a bit better than 4 oz per plant also
hey randy. that kwikool looks pretty dope!!! i already have the excel air into my budget however so i think ima go with that.
with your unit does your room stay plenty cool enough? and how much more a month would you say it makes your electric bill? if you dont mind answering of course.!
with your unit does your room stay plenty cool enough? and how much more a month would you say it makes your electric bill? if you dont mind answering of course.!
Ganjapreneur
New member
nice info lazyman
