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The how to and why fors of CO2 supplementation for growers
- Thread starter Lazyman
- Start date
Well unless you have a new leak in your grow, the burner will fire more often (often making a lighter propane tank) or a CO2 cylinder will weigh less. With a hard plumbed generator you'd have to sit in there with a stopwatch and a clipboard once a week for a couple hours.
Really ? That kind of fits with what I had heard .....that CO2 was best used just "In the first part of Flowering"... and best left out for the later part. This was also explained [by Peter of Positronix] to me that CO2 only really "works" when run with the environment set up specifically for high intensity CO2 boosted growth, using high temps, high humidity, high light intensity... and you do not want the heat or temps in the latter part of Flower anyway.
S
sparkjumper
foaf i can hear my generator kick on from my living room its just on the other side of the wall.I know its using more because of the frequency of the burner kicking on as opposed to when its late in flower.I can also tell by the time it takes to use a full 10 gal tank which averages 15-20 days depending on..you guessed it the stage of development of the plants in the room.I can tell you from experience that high temps and co2 all the way till harvest will not affect the plants negatively.I've done it both ways because I used to run a perpetual grow,then they changed the law on me.Now I flower 24 plants from start to finish at 85 F and 1500PPM
hydr1
Member
Hey Lazy...quick question.
Im running a 15 x 9 x 7 ft room 945 cu ft.
3200 watts of HPS (2x 1000- 2x 600)
Passive intakes and a 6" inline for exhaust at the moment
I am concerned about cold temps so I just bought a daytime/nighttime temp controller. I was going to hook up a heater to it but.....
I want to run a natural gas co2 burner.
I live in a cold climate and run my lights at night. Im trying to stay warmer. My temps are dropping to 65 F low and 75 high.
Q--Will I be fine without AC running a Co2 generator? Im thinking yes.
Q--Do I need a regulator or meter? Can I just exhaust the room when Im in there so its safe for me?
Q--Would I want to seal my two passive intake and my exhaust ports? Or should I just leave them open and run the CO2 with lights on constantly with a emergency heat controlled exhaust?
Q--How would you go about putting the NG generator on a timer or somthing so it shuts off at night?
Thanks for the great info.
Im running a 15 x 9 x 7 ft room 945 cu ft.
3200 watts of HPS (2x 1000- 2x 600)
Passive intakes and a 6" inline for exhaust at the moment
I am concerned about cold temps so I just bought a daytime/nighttime temp controller. I was going to hook up a heater to it but.....
I want to run a natural gas co2 burner.
I live in a cold climate and run my lights at night. Im trying to stay warmer. My temps are dropping to 65 F low and 75 high.
Q--Will I be fine without AC running a Co2 generator? Im thinking yes.
Q--Do I need a regulator or meter? Can I just exhaust the room when Im in there so its safe for me?
Q--Would I want to seal my two passive intake and my exhaust ports? Or should I just leave them open and run the CO2 with lights on constantly with a emergency heat controlled exhaust?
Q--How would you go about putting the NG generator on a timer or somthing so it shuts off at night?
Thanks for the great info.
No prob Hydr1:
1) Yes, though you want it to get to 85*F, so your AC won't have to work too hard to keep that level.
2) Yes you need a CO2 controller with generators, timers are a great way to waste CO2. 1500PPM's is safe for humans.
3) Yes, you want no air exchange between the room and the outside world whatsoever. Seal it up airtight. If you want to leave exhaust fans wired to another temp control system (so if the room exceeds 90*F the fans kick on) that is fine.
I used a CAP AIr-4, it makes sure the CO2 doesn't run at night, or when the exhaust fans are running. Great piece of hardware, but you'll still need a CO2 monitor/controller to regulate the actual levels on the genny.
Anytime!
1) Yes, though you want it to get to 85*F, so your AC won't have to work too hard to keep that level.
2) Yes you need a CO2 controller with generators, timers are a great way to waste CO2. 1500PPM's is safe for humans.
3) Yes, you want no air exchange between the room and the outside world whatsoever. Seal it up airtight. If you want to leave exhaust fans wired to another temp control system (so if the room exceeds 90*F the fans kick on) that is fine.
I used a CAP AIr-4, it makes sure the CO2 doesn't run at night, or when the exhaust fans are running. Great piece of hardware, but you'll still need a CO2 monitor/controller to regulate the actual levels on the genny.
Anytime!
hydr1
Member
by the way...my temps outside are so cold (50 high--30 low)that Im running two 1000s and 2 600s with the ducting removed....not air cooling them at all....the exhaust just pulls from the fan straight outside. and they are hitting 75 as a high and 65 as a low
If I flip the fan so the air is comming in and over the hoods it will be in the 40-50s easy.
If I flip the fan so the air is comming in and over the hoods it will be in the 40-50s easy.
CranAppleGemz
Member
can u work in the room with a ppm of 1500 safely??? im just wondering because if its completely sealed i figure u really cant exhaust anywhere...
Pushing in cold air will help cool the air, but it also dilutes the CO2 significantly. Either no incoming air or ducting that heated air back outside is best to maintain CO2 level integrity.BOth good units, no worries with those parts.
If you're not running any ducting now, and not going over 75, you might be able to keep it around 85 with the genny, but again, that's just over the winter. In a hot summer you will likely need either AC or to re-do your ducting.
Hope that helps!
hydr1
Member
thanks bro....Im thinking I can just run it and then by summer Ill be able to install an AC unit....I can def run the air through the hoods and back outside though.....but Im trying to build heat cause it hasnt even begun to get cold and my girls are shivvering...ahahha.
thanks very informative.
thanks very informative.
well my brain hurts so bad! haha been reading all day but i think i finally got a idea of what i wanna do. how does this sound everyone........
sealed basement.
about 5 thousand watts of hid lighting.
for my ac im thinking this.
http://excelair.ca/2tonpackage.html
maybe even the 2.5 ton incase i wanna upgrade to more lighting....
for co2 im thinking this.
http://www.planetnatural.com/cgi-bin/planetnatural/variable-co2-generator
that btu is for about a lil over 20,000 i belive so it should match my ac unit.
to control all this i plan on using this
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/chhc-1.html
seems like the perfect controller for my needs......
now i talked to the guy from the excell air today and he said that with myset up that 2-2.5 ton ac would keep my room ambient temps no problem...
and this is without cooltubing my hoods for a complete SEALED room.
what do you guys think??? this all seem about right???
also he said the ac unit acted as a dehumidifier so i really wouldnt need one. but if i wanted a small one it wouldnt hurt...
i plan on having a veg area in the basement too.. where my moms/clones and veg would be.. and he said instead of trying to make that 2 ton unit cool that area aswell.. just get a 1 ton unit for my veg area.. and i wont need co2 in that room.
this sound right also??
the guy really seemed to kno his shit and was tellin me about how canada has been doing sealed rooms for years now and its all he knows.. so i feel like with all this i WONT need to air cool my lights.
any body out there runnin similar setup that could let me kno forsure?
and is there anything you would add to thiss set up???? i didnt post osalaiting fans an other commen sense items. just trying to figure out the bigger picture of things here. suggestions would be great.. thanks
sealed basement.
about 5 thousand watts of hid lighting.
for my ac im thinking this.
http://excelair.ca/2tonpackage.html
maybe even the 2.5 ton incase i wanna upgrade to more lighting....
for co2 im thinking this.
http://www.planetnatural.com/cgi-bin/planetnatural/variable-co2-generator
that btu is for about a lil over 20,000 i belive so it should match my ac unit.
to control all this i plan on using this
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/chhc-1.html
seems like the perfect controller for my needs......
now i talked to the guy from the excell air today and he said that with myset up that 2-2.5 ton ac would keep my room ambient temps no problem...
and this is without cooltubing my hoods for a complete SEALED room.
what do you guys think??? this all seem about right???
also he said the ac unit acted as a dehumidifier so i really wouldnt need one. but if i wanted a small one it wouldnt hurt...
i plan on having a veg area in the basement too.. where my moms/clones and veg would be.. and he said instead of trying to make that 2 ton unit cool that area aswell.. just get a 1 ton unit for my veg area.. and i wont need co2 in that room.
this sound right also??
the guy really seemed to kno his shit and was tellin me about how canada has been doing sealed rooms for years now and its all he knows.. so i feel like with all this i WONT need to air cool my lights.
any body out there runnin similar setup that could let me kno forsure?
and is there anything you would add to thiss set up???? i didnt post osalaiting fans an other commen sense items. just trying to figure out the bigger picture of things here. suggestions would be great.. thanks
Most of that sounds good man, you've done a lot of reading today.
I would advise to get 1 large AC, and just circulate the air between your veg room and flower room. Figure out the MAX wattage you could even fit in your room, and plan for that much amperage draw from the start. I'd do the same with AC, because it's cheaper to get 1 big one than 2 small ones, and easier to wire, easier to install and control. A 3.5 ton min. it sounds like.
I try to have a large excess of available heat and cooling, so I can compensate for whatever mother nature brings. Air cooling hoods is cheap and will keep your ac from running as much too, and that big an AC needs around 25-29 amps of 240v juice. You don't want it running a lot if you can cool with a smaller amp draw.
Though many guys don't run CO2 in veg, if they could do so easily most would. It does make plants grow faster (though sometimes spindly) but with the above design, you get free CO2 in veg for about 6 hours before the flower room shuts down and co2 turns off. This way it keeps the CO2 ppms up for part of the "Day" but never as high as flower.
Just a couple simple fans, one on intake, one on exhaust, on the same temp controller for the veg room, will keep air exchange up. Keep track of RH and temps in both rooms, and fix what needs fixing. If you need a dehuey in veg, get one. Same goes for flower, sometimes your humidity will be high and the temps too low for the AC to run (like after the lights go out.) Santa Fes are used because they pull more water out of the air than anything, and use less power to do so than small models. My 8kw grow has 2 45-pint per day units, and 3 would be better. Instead, I should have a Santa Fe Max dry, at 150 pints per day, and uses less power than 2 of my current units. They're about 1800 bucks though.
Since the flower room will probably be off/dark (and 65-70* cool) during daylight hours, 12 hours a day, it will do a fine job of cooling the veg room with flower room air. Have them overlap by only the 6 hour differential.
Keep your res's in a separate room
I would advise to get 1 large AC, and just circulate the air between your veg room and flower room. Figure out the MAX wattage you could even fit in your room, and plan for that much amperage draw from the start. I'd do the same with AC, because it's cheaper to get 1 big one than 2 small ones, and easier to wire, easier to install and control. A 3.5 ton min. it sounds like.
I try to have a large excess of available heat and cooling, so I can compensate for whatever mother nature brings. Air cooling hoods is cheap and will keep your ac from running as much too, and that big an AC needs around 25-29 amps of 240v juice. You don't want it running a lot if you can cool with a smaller amp draw.
Though many guys don't run CO2 in veg, if they could do so easily most would. It does make plants grow faster (though sometimes spindly) but with the above design, you get free CO2 in veg for about 6 hours before the flower room shuts down and co2 turns off. This way it keeps the CO2 ppms up for part of the "Day" but never as high as flower.
Just a couple simple fans, one on intake, one on exhaust, on the same temp controller for the veg room, will keep air exchange up. Keep track of RH and temps in both rooms, and fix what needs fixing. If you need a dehuey in veg, get one. Same goes for flower, sometimes your humidity will be high and the temps too low for the AC to run (like after the lights go out.) Santa Fes are used because they pull more water out of the air than anything, and use less power to do so than small models. My 8kw grow has 2 45-pint per day units, and 3 would be better. Instead, I should have a Santa Fe Max dry, at 150 pints per day, and uses less power than 2 of my current units. They're about 1800 bucks though.
Since the flower room will probably be off/dark (and 65-70* cool) during daylight hours, 12 hours a day, it will do a fine job of cooling the veg room with flower room air. Have them overlap by only the 6 hour differential.
Keep your res's in a separate room
well the main reason i dont wanna do air cooled hoods is cause im scared ill just waste all that co2?? ive ran into alot of threads where you say aslong as its outside-light-light-light-fan-outside it wont effect the co2. but then i read other things that lead me to belive it will!?! thats the only reason im so worried about this......
an your suggesting i use 2 fans for my veg.. in and out? venting into my flower room where ill have the 3.5 ton ac unit?? also allowing co2 to hit the veg room for a few hours a day???
you said to keep track of rh and temps. sorry ive fried my brain tonight. but what is rh???
the guy said that ac system will pull alot of water out of the room.. not saying i wont need a dehu. but just dont think ill need one that size?? plus where im gonna be living its gonna be COLD and DRY all year. with summer not gettin to hot either....
anothre reason i think i would be fine with just the ac.
you also talk about the flower room being off at dark? i assume you mean night time?
and you say it should be 65-70 degrees.. do you mean that temp for night or day???
i plan on keeping my temp 85 with co2 for optimal usage.. that sounds right correct?
now sinse the ac wont run with the lights off wouldnt i run into problems keepin my veg are cold enough? or do you suggest i do 18/6 in veg and have the 6 hour time diff at night to try to keep things cool in there???
thanks again lazy man you have helped me TONS with all this. and i feel like another couple days of reading and ima have this all figured out!
an your suggesting i use 2 fans for my veg.. in and out? venting into my flower room where ill have the 3.5 ton ac unit?? also allowing co2 to hit the veg room for a few hours a day???
you said to keep track of rh and temps. sorry ive fried my brain tonight. but what is rh???
the guy said that ac system will pull alot of water out of the room.. not saying i wont need a dehu. but just dont think ill need one that size?? plus where im gonna be living its gonna be COLD and DRY all year. with summer not gettin to hot either....
anothre reason i think i would be fine with just the ac.
you also talk about the flower room being off at dark? i assume you mean night time?
and you say it should be 65-70 degrees.. do you mean that temp for night or day???
i plan on keeping my temp 85 with co2 for optimal usage.. that sounds right correct?
now sinse the ac wont run with the lights off wouldnt i run into problems keepin my veg are cold enough? or do you suggest i do 18/6 in veg and have the 6 hour time diff at night to try to keep things cool in there???
thanks again lazy man you have helped me TONS with all this. and i feel like another couple days of reading and ima have this all figured out!
I'm rigging up my CGE (closed growing environment) right now. I will be air cooling my lights, but the air will be going right back into the grow room. It's just to move the heat away from right on top of the plants and let me get my lights a little closer. My A/C will still do all the cooling work. I have to run a carbon scrubber anyway, so I figured I may as well just duct through the lights. Light intensity decreases significantly with each inch. It should help lift the CO2 up too because it is heavier than O2 and will settle on your floor without good circulation.
I don't know about your A/C, but I can set mine in auto mode and put it at 85 during lights on and 70-74 once the lights turn off. I veg 24/0 though I might switch that to 18/6 depending on veg growth with CO2. I'm putting in an inline fan constantly blowing from my flower room (where the A/C is) to my veg room. I may try and tweak it, but if I can keep everything at 85 during the day and 74 at night and 45%-50% humidity then I see no real need to have separate veg/flower climates. That is nominal conditions for flower and pretty close for veg.
If you PUSH air through your hoods it can't suck in CO2.
Yep, thats right.
RH is relative humidity, you'll see that a lot round here.
May be, you'll know in 1 year what you need. Takes a whole set of seasons to dial things in for them all sometimes.
Nah, I run my flower rooms all night, dark during the day. Veg can run all day and into the evening.
Night.
Yep
With the lights off in the flower room it will be cool in there, and you just pump that cool air into veg.
quote]
No prob bro!
spastic- so you say your just venting that air from your hoods right back to your room?? if you dont mind how are you gonna do that......
this is how i have it imagined in my mind , let me kno if im right or wrong.
fan pushing/light/duct/light/duct/light/exaust back into flower room?
lazyman- ok i think i understand all that now..
do you think what spastic said would work? just blowing the hot air basically all the way threw the lights then back into the grow room??
if so how many '' vortex fans should i use to push?
the way the ac unit im gettin works is....
it push's the cold air threw the ducting which is in my room. all the way to the other side of the grow room. then floats back to the spot where my "indoor air handler" aka my indoor part of the ac unit. which the hot air goes into then recreates cold air all over. so sinse it works like this it would make sinse that it can turn any of that hot air back into cold right??
if that all sounds about right i think im in the zone!! let me kno if im on key with all this!
thanks again guys
one more question while i remember..
so for my veg area you think it should go something like this...
flower room/wall/invent to veg/then vent back into my flower room sorda in a circle like motion?? so it all starts and stops in my flower area????
this is how i have it imagined in my mind , let me kno if im right or wrong.
fan pushing/light/duct/light/duct/light/exaust back into flower room?
lazyman- ok i think i understand all that now..
do you think what spastic said would work? just blowing the hot air basically all the way threw the lights then back into the grow room??
if so how many '' vortex fans should i use to push?
the way the ac unit im gettin works is....
it push's the cold air threw the ducting which is in my room. all the way to the other side of the grow room. then floats back to the spot where my "indoor air handler" aka my indoor part of the ac unit. which the hot air goes into then recreates cold air all over. so sinse it works like this it would make sinse that it can turn any of that hot air back into cold right??
if that all sounds about right i think im in the zone!! let me kno if im on key with all this!
thanks again guys
one more question while i remember..
so for my veg area you think it should go something like this...
flower room/wall/invent to veg/then vent back into my flower room sorda in a circle like motion?? so it all starts and stops in my flower area????
