The Haze discussion thread

[CannaT]

NL5/Hz....very old cutting from late 80's

10 week haze.

 

[CannaT]

a Colombian leaf with a mustache aka. MR. lumbo

 

[Donald Mallard]

Fast plants have been reported in Todd's Repo Haze also.

Never seen a 10 week Sativa my self but ha maybe there magic and came from the hippie surfer that slept next to the plant the magic seed grew.

fairly sure sam posted that the brothers didnt grow indica ,
making sativa flower earlier is possible through selection and hybridizing,
not all sativa is super long flowering ,, durban poison for instance ,
some mexican sativas are also quick in comparison to things like thai...

but then if you havent seen it , then it doesnt exist i guess , right??

 

[@hempy]

Aug 16, 2010

• #42

After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.

Not quite true I had a pure OHaze I grew in Santa Cruz that was 10 weeks, Brian's Early Haze, it was my seeds and I gave Brian the plant he grew, I was there to see it grown, flowered and harvested and I smoked some, it was great.
-SamS

Like i posted before Fast plants have been reported in Todd's Repo Haze also.

I have never seen a 10 week Sativa my self but ha maybe there magic and came from the hippie surfer that slept next to the plant the magic seed grew out as reported in High Times..

 

[GreenAndFast]

Not looking for an argument Lost but you your self posted and said



Over fertilized is not a healthy plant Lost and how many seed did you grow out healthy of the Nevils Haze to full maturity to give the line a fare and honest assessment ?

These are My Nevils Haze F1s i grew Lost they look healthy to me were are the pictures of your NH is flower and in all their Glory.

They look great in my eyes HEMPY

 

[GreenAndFast]

And if you have ever grown anything past 14-16 weeks you try stopping the leaf curl and burned tips. I fed my mango Thai nothing but water for 4 months and it still had burned tips.

 

[@hempy]

Aug 18, 2010

• #103

BC as a cutting may still be floating around and there may still be a few 25 year old seeds, but I wouldn't go getting my hopes up. The few haze that came up were all hybrids anyway and haze didn't get better when you inbred it. The NL5xHzC1 X Sk1xHzC1 Was not as good as the mother. The best I could do was combine the two different males over the NL5, and I put it out there.
Haze really needed to go to a good Buddah Thai lineage, but I could never find one good enough. Went to Thailand, but I couldn't find really good weed there anymore. I'm hoping that someone from Australia will have what we're looking for.

Aug 30, 2010

• #176

I hate to say it - I almost dare not say it - but how many hazes do we need? (Nev's Haze is probably good enough for all of us!)​

Well, we need a few.
Type 1
I need a Haze female that is not descended from either HzA or HzC, to put to the NH male. If it clicks, sufficient seed needs to be produced for long term storage, just in case. these seeds may be important to breeders in the future.
Type 2
I need an unrelated female to make a hybrid with the NH, preferably a sativa. This needs to be an elite sativa to bring out the best qualities of the NH.
Type 3
We also need to inbreed to our existing Haze lines, focussing on a fuller expression of the qualities already present in the gene pool. Resin production and yield, coupled with early flowering times are given more priority than with the pure and out-cross lines.

A lot of work has and is being done with type three. Types 1 and 2 still require a concerted effort. This is where I'm asking for help.

It's no good saying to me in 20 years time, what happened to the varieties from the good old days. We need to act now, before it's too late!
N.

Nov 16, 2010

• #335

I have explained this earlier. I have been stuck in Australia for 5 years (Departure Prohibition Order). Last week I got an extraction of the Court Orders proving I'm free to travel again. I've only been able to smoke some of the MN strains lately. I'm very impressed with the Mango Haze.
SB and I have collaborated on which lines to put together, but we are all reliant on his good taste in selections. We are in good hands.
Line breeding to the existent Haze strains is something that we have been working on for quite a long time and I'm pleased with the results that have been achieved, but my focus is to collect and bring something new to the party as well as finding a non HzA or HzC line that would reinforce the best of the Haze in the NH. Things are looking good.
Everybody who's anybody in this game faces calamity at some point. While some cutting were lost, we are still in a very strong position with our genetics. In all honesty, I don't believe that anyone else could come close to what we've got. It seems that some of you agree with me.
N.

Mar 14, 2010

• #18

Scorpion said:
Ya know up until these last couple of posts I thought you knew what you were talking about,
now I see you were misinformed early on and have taken that as the gospel..
Take a breath...
NL5xHaze was developed and sold by Nevil of The Seed Bank... Period
I care not what anyone else has pics of...
The Seed Bank...NO one ever even heard of this hybrid before Nevil sold it.

scorpion​

Hi scorp,
Before Neville got involved in the whole seed bank thang he released some haze breeds and gave some clones from these breeds to some dutch friends of his to test them out and see what came out of them.
Some of these cuts made it till the present day and some got lost over the years.
These people who had these cuts kept it in a select group or it's better to say that these cuts kept themself in a select group for the most growers were not interested in growing these hazes cause they took to long to finish and were to difficult to grow for most growers.
Neville was active in crossing potent strains before he started with the seedbank.
When he started with the seedbank he allready knew witch strains were interesting to promote and witch weren't.
Hope this will clear up a few things.
Grtz,
Y. Sam

#12

It is sometimes difficult for me to hear things that are blatantly not correct about breeds but over the years i have seen it with just about every person involved in seeds. Considering seeds are unique time capsules of genetic code it is easier to go on with a job by doing your research where ever that leads you. In the end if you grow a great sativa and are happy with it like MNS has been since its beginnings,(and I may add Neville never said anything to the opposite during our time together about our common mother stock or father stock)....then be happy !

YSam your research and words are of a person who has spoken to many people involved so it is fair to here your version of A5 and C5. At best there were selections of these F1 seeds and other cuts of the same seed with the same name going around the south of Holland and still do...whether these are versions or otherwise still is questionable depends who you ask. If you judge things by coffeeshop products it maybe difficult to believe they are what they are meant to be and I do believe Neville and I would still agree on that point foresure. All the best Shantibaba

A little research is all that is needed.

 

[Stocktont]

When talking about what Nevil did it’s better to read Nevil. We have had problems with other people telling his stories and not getting them right before haven’t we? Nevil collecting Haze in the USA, SSH and MH having both Haze A and C in their linage and then not then again… I think it’s safer to just read what Nevil said and ignore the white noise of people parroting his words and getting it right sometimes and wrong sometimes and even contradicting the own words stating two things that can’t both be true. Maybe grow the plants would be a better ”research”, that’s my plan anyways, good luck with the research! Puff puff pass!

 

[yesum]

On quick sativas, I chop when I see any cloudy resin or a third to a half brown pistils. I am quick you see, along with 9 hour lights on.... The other thing is there is no scientific thing as sativa, that is just what we all think of when we want to talk of speedy high pot. Along with thin leaves and usually longer flowering times. I believe the science says sativa is wild pot and indica is cultivated drug pot.

 

[@hempy]

When talking about what Nevil did it’s better to read Nevil. We have had problems with other people telling his stories and not getting them right before haven’t we? Nevil collecting Haze in the USA, SSH and MH having both Haze A and C in their linage and then not then again… I think it’s safer to just read what Nevil said and ignore the white noise of people parroting his words and getting it right sometimes and wrong sometimes and even contradicting the own words stating two things that can’t both be true. Maybe grow the plants would be a better ”research”, that’s my plan anyways, good luck with the research! Puff puff pass!

MH having both Haze A and C in their linage

The Test seed Mango Haze had a Sk x HzA father the re worked Mango Haze has the Sk x HzC father no confusion there at all as shanti clarified that.

The reason for the change was of the 10 people that was given the MH test seed only 2 people people completed the grow that was me and other was Jesse.

The rest culled the plants and called them impracticable as they grew like jungle sativas and they did.

I know this as i was involved.

 

[Stocktont]

On quick sativas, I chop when I see any cloudy resin or a third to a half brown pistils. I am quick you see, along with 9 hour lights on.... The other thing is there is no scientific thing as sativa, that is just what we all think of when we want to talk of speedy high pot. Along with thin leaves and usually longer flowering times. I believe the science says sativa is wild pot and indica is cultivated drug pot.

Sativa, the word, means ”Cultivated” as in cultivated by humans so it is a word that was put after Cannabis when named and Cannabis Sativa just means Cultivated Cannabis. Indica refers to the origin of something as it means ”from India”. So not the two best words to use as names for two categories of plants from the same species I agree. It also makes even less sense to use it when discussing hybrids. Only the Sativa name would be useful but not as a category but for all cannabis as it is still being cultivated by humans….and of course plants originating from India.

 

[Stocktont]

The Test seed Mango Haze had a Sk x HzA father the re worked Mango Haze has the Sk x HzC father no confusion there at all as shanti clarified that.

The reason for the change was of the 10 people that was given the MH test seed only 2 people people completed the grow that was me and other was Jesse.

The rest culled the plants and called them impracticable as they grew like jungle sativas and they did.

I know this as i was involved.

so you didn’t grow Mango Haze then?

 

[Stocktont]

In my opinion your good friend has been more than unclear and every time he tried to ”straighten it out” before all of us mare mortals would make ”a legend of a myth” he just muddied the waters yet again talking in riddles and using semantics and condescending demeanor to curb any discussion on the topic, but hey, that is my personal opinion about how it went down, you were ”involved” so hell, explain it to us then if you were there making the seeds and selections!

There’s lot’s more where it goes back and forth between what plants actually made it into the final version of MH but the last quote says SSH also has Haze A in it’s linage, can you tell me how you and Shanti did this HEMPY? Is it right or was that some test batch of seeds only you grew?

 

[@hempy]

so you didn’t grow Mango Haze then?

I grew the test seed Mango Haze with the Sk x HzA father but not the later version and still have the line i also have the Shit Haze that i sure is the Sk x HzA line used in F1 form still that was also given out to 10 people to test but was never released again jungle sativas..

 

[djonkoman]

I mentioned reverse breeding in another thread, it has nothing to do with reversing sex.

the 'reverse' part here is that usually, if you'd make a f1-hybrid of some crop, you first create homozygous lines, then test which of those lines fit together the best.
with this method you start the other way around, you start by doing some sort of polyhybrid, so you get a very variable batch of plants with hybrid vigour, you don't first make stable lines.
then you do a phenohunt in such a population. and the reverse breeding technique then allows you to create 2 parent lines which can recreate that specific plant each time again. this reverse breeding depend on blocking meiotic crossovers from forming.

in this case, since it would be an f1 of haze, the plant still has the unrecombined haze chromosomes in it. only when these f1 plants reproduce it gets shuffled together with whatever else (NL5) there is.
the seperate chromosomes do still assort independently, but there are only so many unique combintions of the seperate chromosomes possible, so among them will also be lines carrying only haze-derived chromosomes.
so this plant/line would not be completely identical to haze A or C (it would be a homozygous line), but it would behave in crosses like it was haze A or C.

 

[Stocktont]

I grew the test seed Mango Haze with the Sk x HzA father but not the later version and still have the line i also have the Shit Haze that i sure is the Sk x HzA line used in F1 form still that was also given out to 10 people to test but was never released again jungle sativas..

So you have never grown Mango Haze then...

and where is the Haze A in SSH?

 

[Thule]

Shanti seems like a stand up guy to me despite not revealing all his secrets. Why would he? Only a handfull of people are interested anyway and it has no impact on sales. You don't just give out all your breeding secrets now do you? Lying is another thing.

 

[willydread]

. Maybe grow the plants would be a better ”research”, that’s my plan anyways, good luck with the research! Puff puff pass!

I agree 100%, the only way to find out how things are is to grow those plants, nothing simpler ... People (some people) look to Sam and Nevil as gods who are the source of absolute truth, but they are men like all of us ... (including Shanti)
HEMPY Whenever I see your Nevil haze plants I can't help but compliment you, they are really beautiful plants, and regarding the leaves I can assure you that certain sativas (pure or hybrid) curl or shed their leaves as they mature ...
About fast sativa, it is true that there are many quite early Mexican strains, but Durban Poison is clearly hybrid, and from Nevil's descriptions even the seeds he received from Sam were potentially hybrid ...

 

[willydread]

Shanti seems like a stand up guy to me despite not revealing all his secrets. Why would he? Only a handfull of people are interested anyway and it has no impact on sales. You don't just give out all your breeding secrets now do you? Lying is another thing.

It's called respect for customers.

 

[Stocktont]

Shanti seems like a stand up guy to me despite not revealing all his secrets. Why would he? Only a handfull of people are interested anyway and it has no impact on sales. You don't just give out all your breeding secrets now do you? Lying is another thing.

Totally agree but it gets silly when others claim his statements as "fact". No problem at all with the breeder its his choice what he wants to say or not say. But its hard for the followers to then claim it if the "source" didn't tell. With Nevil its clearer to see the information he chose to post himself. We can compare his words to the followers as his words are still there. Imagine how different the gospels had been if the book of Jesus was there to compare them to. Would be much less arguing on what he said, did, or didn't do and no one would have to listen to preachers, however "sure" they are that their version is "the truth".

hope that explains my stance so no one think I am dissing Nevil or Shanti. Just don't have much use for preachers and gospels. Like the religious parallel some of those spreading "the word" seem more concerned spreading the idea of themselves being special. Anyone who are not onboard, off with their head... lol