.... can I just say >>> wow?
The Haze discussion thread
- Thread starter @hempy
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I have no idea mate.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
HB they are looking fairly uniform in the Pic mate seeing sex this early is odd as i assume in your part of the world it is spring heading into summer. The plant that is showing early sex looks resiny.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Pure OHaze has not been improved by anyone, all I did was try to preserve as many genes in the variety as I could. So Far. -SamS
If you were to go back and do it again Sam is there things you would of done different with the preservation of Haze.
I know you say 5% will be good and i hope i have this correct to use Males to outcross with.I think i know why Males are important and Nevil also suggested people do that to.
With Colombians i always found them to have a type of high that can be described as a heavy high not couch lock but a high that has a stone element to the high heavy head type of high.
Were the Thais good old school Thais tend to be the electric psychedelic almost like your plugged into the matrix.I have always thought good Thai are as close at it gets to LSD in cannabis.
If you were to go back and do it again Sam is there things you would of done different with the preservation of Haze.
I know you say 5% will be good and i hope i have this correct to use Males to outcross with.I think i know why Males are important and Nevil also suggested people do that to.
With Colombians i always found them to have a type of high that can be described as a heavy high not couch lock but a high that has a stone element to the high heavy head type of high.
Were the Thais good old school Thais tend to be the electric psychedelic almost like your plugged into the matrix.I have always thought good Thai are as close at it gets to LSD in cannabis.
T
TakenByTheSky
Here's a few week 7 pics of my 2 original haze x skunks.
At first I thought this first plant was going to be the winner but I'm not liking the rounded buds and it looks like it will finish faster. I'm assuming this is the skunk Dom one now that I see the buds even tho I thought the opposite until now
This is the other one which I'm now thinking will be the winner. This one will go longer but it has these great looking spear shaped buds which is exactly what I'd look for in a proper haze. Smell is incensey, might be early to call it but I might go on a limb and say it might smell a bit like frankincense. I wish I would have up potted it's only in a 3 gallon bag.
At first I thought this first plant was going to be the winner but I'm not liking the rounded buds and it looks like it will finish faster. I'm assuming this is the skunk Dom one now that I see the buds even tho I thought the opposite until now
This is the other one which I'm now thinking will be the winner. This one will go longer but it has these great looking spear shaped buds which is exactly what I'd look for in a proper haze. Smell is incensey, might be early to call it but I might go on a limb and say it might smell a bit like frankincense. I wish I would have up potted it's only in a 3 gallon bag.
thugpoet
Active member
@hempy said:
Why did he discard the Haze B female due to it being subpar in that case, if he supposedly selected 3 elite clones? In all likelihood he only ever got 3 Haze plants to finish flowering and likely never made pure Haze seeds, but claimed otherwise to make his work look more serious.
@hempy said:
Yes, no one ever disputed it.
@hempy said:
How do you explain the similarity in traits with other pure Haze lines?
Your only argumentation basis is in a very biased interpretation of Sam's word.
Sam was not married to the Haze bros, and they would have known other growers and given them a couple seeds for sure.
Sam never said anywhere that no one else ever possessed seeds from the Haze bros, just that they were never sold or produced on a commercial scale.
@hempy said:
That Haze line allegedly comes from Sacramento, which is not far at all from Santa Cruz.
All in all, there is a preponderance of the evidence pointing to OT Haze being a real Haze line and it's very easy to fill in the blanks. Whereas your argument basically boils down to: "We have no deterministic proof that it was obtained from the Haze bros, therefore it can't be a Haze."
HAZENACIOUS
Member
He made a lot of seeds obviously, I don't remember all the details but the first one he said grew like crap, took up half a room didn't give buds really just little strings of very small calyxs, smelled like crap, budded forever, never really finished after some ridiculous time. It was sitting dried up in the corner of the grow room and one day he decided to crumble up some and twist it up and smoke it.
He was blown away, it was the most amazing stuff he had ever smoked, total euphoria.
But somebody working for him screwed up and lost the original cut. Nevil fired him.
Not sure but I think the haze A and C male comes from same batch, the others, I think were related but different. To make a long story short, according to Nevil, he didn't have good luck with pure haze crosses or any females except that first one which got lost. The real gold was in those 2 males, and the unbelievable hybrids he was able to produce from crossing them with his best cuts.
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HAZENACIOUS
Member
Yes, I felt the same way when I went there, I found an SSH that was OK, but that was about it.
Still the feeling of walking into a store for the first time, buying Haze, and the sitting down and rolling one up and smoking in public with a nice cup of espresso? That moment alone was worth the whole trip.
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HAZENACIOUS
Member
Hi Sam,
that sounds like the ultimate grow. I was just wondering, how would you go about narrowing down the numbers? What different stages of selection would there be? What criteria would you use for selection? Are there any genetic markers you have seen in OHaze, ie leaf shape, color, smell etc, that are particularly indicative of the type you are seeking?
Also this is my first time communicating with you, and for that reason I would like to personally thank you for making your Haze widely available so that it could filter down to me. It has changed my life for the better. Few things give me more joy than my Hazes so I am grateful.
Still looking for the 'Matrix' hehe. I found the Colombian Gold I had in '79 and the more recent CG '72 that I grew, were all in the head with no body or stone.
The Original Haze was all in the head as well, think I grew out one plant. I did have Colombian Red late seventies which was stony and a green variety, which had a bit of body to it.
OldCoolSativa
Well-known member
Gascanistan posts pictures and flowery descriptions of his lines, and I can tell you from experience it's marketing bullshit. You can trust or distrust whoever you want, but I'll give Shanti the benefit of the doubt. I've found some exceptional plants in MNS gear. I have some Holy Grail and Holy Smoke on the way, and have moved the Grail to the top of my grow queue. In this latest release Shanti is clearly offering more haze-leaning plants, which is a great thing IMO. The real eyebrow raiser with this release is the bit about crossing a selected Neville's Haze x Haze AC female (I have no doubt he made and selected a great one) to Haze C. It sure seemed like the Haze C had been lost. Did Shanti recover the Haze C clone from a friend in a far-away location? Did he use some frozen stored Haze C pollen? Did he select a strong haze-leaning male from an F2? Did he outcross one of his haze hybrid lines to a pure sativa and select a haze male? I don't know but I trust that Holy Grail will offer me the opportunity to find some extreme haze phenos for breeding and for personal stash.
Regarding the cure, there's no doubt in my mind that a sativa benefits greatly from a good long cure, and doesn't really come into its own until after curing for 3-6 months. I'm currently enjoying some punto rojo x mangobiche that has been curing for 18 months and it's sublime; greatly improved smell and taste.
T
TakenByTheSky
I don't know, personally I feel that if a plant doesn't taste great right off the rip it probably isn't my holy grail. Anything that needs a long cure to taste decent doesn't sound that appealing to me at least.
Another thing I found funny was how thru the whole breeding process and then into his description he didn't take one single picture? Not a single picture of even the mother plant? Nothing, who does that. I sure as hell ain't breeding holy Grails in my basement but i take pictures of almost every plant i grow because it lets me have a different look at the plant then what I just see standing up close with my eyes.
I have so many hazes already, nl5xhaze, Nevilles haze, Nevilles haze mango, ssh, like 3 other sshs from other sources, mango haze, Nevilles 21 x MM, original haze x skunk, Ive got so many already I need to see something excellent before i plop down money to buy more, especially considering they are high priced. To be honest most MNS haze phenos are just meh..in any of them it takes work to find a truly great one.
Please grow yours and show pictures i'd love to see what comes about
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
I thought he said these were tested an grown out with other varieties in a greenhouse......how comes grail widow pedigree has changed too...it was originally nh x ww ?.....or are grail widow an widow grail 2 seprate lines.....one other thing is strange too......shanti says wen haze a an haze c are combined something special comes out....but to do this he had to go back to seed from nevils from the past an f2 them to pull out a male.....wat was wrong with the straight a5 x haze c combination which is closest in line to the original seeds nevil popped....an wat was wrong with mango haze....unless mango haze never had haze A in it ever...jessi seems to think the test seeds were a double of haze c....as the very firts description from shanti described it an ssh as both being a double of haze c....an the description from the current mango is haze c doubled....shantis pictures of mango haze look exactly the same as the old ssh only more sativa....they look to have the exact same parents as ssh only using a more sativa nl5hazeC morther than the one used for ssh.
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Nevil put haze seeds out ther....hazeC selfed was put out...an haze b x c was also put out.....shanti should still have a stash of hazeC selfd too...wether they still pop or not is a different story....but some combinations of haze seed wer made.
Im wondering why you have not done this already?
You have access to Greenhouses etc and or many people/companys im sure would love to offer you his field , greenhouse, indoor warehouse to be part of this project.
Id love to see this gene pool explored and opened up and see an improvement on the inbred original Haze that is offered these days.
You have access to Greenhouses etc and or many people/companys im sure would love to offer you his field , greenhouse, indoor warehouse to be part of this project.
Id love to see this gene pool explored and opened up and see an improvement on the inbred original Haze that is offered these days.
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Wat improvement does sam wish to make....is it that he wants the percentage of good plants to go up from 5% to somthing like 80%....or does he want to improve an beter those 5% ....so he creates something stronger an beter than the best haze plants available in the line.....not gona be easy to do with a line thats qute inbred to the stage it breeds true ....it would probably work beter if sams line was put to hazeC pure....I wonder if shanti ever tried this....puting sams line to haze A pure would be even beter but unfortunately hazeA left us along time ago.
Sam wat year did your favorite haze come from...or did you prefer the finished article
Sam wat year did your favorite haze come from...or did you prefer the finished article
If the story's are true A and C Haze are from the Original seeds and how many more could be found, Neville found the grail in those few seeds , how much more could be found with 100,000 seeds.
Also where the Purple phenos gone , not Purple Haze but Spicy Frankincense Purple phenos A dominant that i used to find in the SSH seeds and even Nevil Haze seeds and the old school Haze from 20 years ago.
Also where the Purple phenos gone , not Purple Haze but Spicy Frankincense Purple phenos A dominant that i used to find in the SSH seeds and even Nevil Haze seeds and the old school Haze from 20 years ago.
I’m thankful Sams still speaks of the possibility hopefully his heart at the moment can make this project come to fruit . I wonder the same of the possibility of the past but we don’t know what’s on ones plate unless we sit at their table
As for the HzC being crossed Cool
But Sams story has always been the Seeds he Gave Nevil he created . Recently said He didn’t aquire - huge number of Seeds direct from G or RL . Soo I’d assume the best / oldest seeds are in Sams possession and will be used
I’m also curious as to the specifics on the goals of the project , what date / seeds stock will be used and what specific traits/ terpenes /growth / effects will he be selecting towards
He mentioned the Best Haze was before clones , I assume it’s in reference to the special effects described. How about the growth ?
My understanding is the Early Haze was a Beast , full colas at times heavy enough that could brake branches due to their weight . Vigor threw the Roof .
What Is the growth Goal ?
What is the keeper Goal and percentage of keepers ?
The Purple Haze to my knowledge became extinct , is it possibly hidden in old seeds of your Haze ? We see in in THH and OTH
I’ve asked for 12 years about the Gold Pheno , is Incense / Frankincense a trait you will select towards ?
1luvbigherb
T
TakenByTheSky
Isn't saying you need 100k seeds and only 40 are worth using the same as saying the entire line is junk?
100,000 plants seems a bit extreme, I'm sure even with 1000 you could find a few worth keeping around.
Original haze can't be that shitty as others have been able to pick up the strain and make something worth while out of it, even tho you don't really see many ppl at all growing it or even wanting to grow it today.
It's really just a handful of haze afficiandos that still carries the torch for this strain. Most growers want chemmy spunk cookies and all the other purple, potent stinky hyped up 10 weekers.
100,000 plants seems a bit extreme, I'm sure even with 1000 you could find a few worth keeping around.
Original haze can't be that shitty as others have been able to pick up the strain and make something worth while out of it, even tho you don't really see many ppl at all growing it or even wanting to grow it today.
It's really just a handful of haze afficiandos that still carries the torch for this strain. Most growers want chemmy spunk cookies and all the other purple, potent stinky hyped up 10 weekers.
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