the Hand Watering coco thread

[2Lazy]

Coco isn't the kind of media you want to flush. It readily will release any salts or buildup in a good flush, even without clear-x.

The problem with salts in coco is a build up of sodium and potassium chlorides. This makes using RO filtered water appealing, due to the lack of chlorides.

Coco retains a nutrient buffer that is essential to the CEC of the media. The buffer is primarily calcium, phosphorus, and potassium. Once the requirements have been fulfilled these nutrients become very available in the media.

The problem many growers in coco experience is at a point around 2 to 4 weeks in to flowering. Over-abundance of available calcium and potassium compete for uptake with magnesium. Thus a magnesium deficiency can form quickly despite no changes in the nutrient regiment. I find that supplementing using something like cal-mag, magi-cal, etc, winds up adding 3x the calcium to magnesium, which is overkill for coco IMO.

Unfortunately there aren't many magnesium supplements on the market. Organicare Huvega contains more calcium and sodium than it does magnesium, despite claiming to be an Mg based additive. Humboldt Nutrients SeaMag is the ONLY acceptable magnesium supply I have found commercially. Otherwise, mixing up some epsom salt solution is another way of fulfilling the Mg requirements as bloom continues.

If you check out the Canna website they have several articles called "CannaTalk." One of the articles on coco explains why they only use one coco formula, rather than a veg and a bloom formula. I'll let you read it for yourself, but the long and the short of it is, if you flush you need to begin using a bloom nutrient immediately after the flush to rebuild your nutrient CEC buffer. Otherwise the coco's conductivity will actually extract cations and ions from the plant via a kind of reverse osmosis to establish electrical equilibrium with the plant.

Flushing+Coco = Bad News. Just be careful and understand the media well enough before being hasty.

 

[MediRI88]

Awsomeeee....

 

[StrictlyGateway]

drain to waste helps with salt build up.

 

[buddin_904]

drain to waste helps with salt build up.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

id like to clear the term "flushing" - when we talk about coco culture, this term does NOT mean the same as washing out a substrate with pure water like for example with soil growing. it is a quick thing to get out any excess of nutes and such, just watering in excess, what is generally known as drain to waste, specially WHEN hand watering.

so generally the flushing is allready done by watering in excess - say about 15 % or what ever it takes to get the drain water EC down to recomended level.

the reason is with the quick growth spurts, the nutrients/salts can get accumulated into the coco very quick, specially when the ambient temperatures are higher. im sure this is no new info for most who grow in coco, using pots and hand watering.

luckilly it is a quick thing to fix it.

it is to water in excess with the nute water..

in coco it is generally a good thing to keep the drain water at around 0.2 or less, above than what you are feeding.

also i would like to ad, that i find it specially rewarding to use PK 13-14 all thru the 2nd part of flowering, while i do flush and water waste to drain, a hella lot. this means it is possible to feed the plants more without worrying about the EC build up.

anyway, once again i want to stress the fact it is important not to let the coco dry out too much since the EC can double, when the humidity level is half as when watered. plants wont like that too much.

it all has to do a lot with conditions. im sure canna does not have hand watering in mind, not at least as far as i know.

this is why i started to search for the best method for my setup, and this far many of my conclusions differ somewhat to cannas recomendations. i believe it is because they base most of their info buletins etc on the use of coco slabs, where the frecuent watering and small amount of coco per plant makes build up less likelly, how ever im sure it can happen there also, if the watering frequency decreases, and or if the temperature goes up and the substrate dries up faster than expected.

but generally as stated before, this problem in coco is really a small one, not comparable to soil growing.

for example - a few vegged plants of mine the other day, had been getting quite dry indeed between waterings, while they also had been on top of some trays, where excess the water also has been evaporating - it means the pots have been bottom feeding with gradually higher and higher EC, as the water dries up. this had affected the growth rate, since the plants were almost un able to feed, the EC beeing above 4.0

since this is an alarming high EC, i flushed it out with straigth tap water (contains cal and mag) and distilled water. it didnt take more than about 12 liters of water per 6 liter pot to get the EC down to 1.2 followed by watering normal nute solution.

and this was an alarming extreme case, i hope you will avoid in no normal case woul this be necesary..

also i should say its virtually very dificult to get the calcium and potasium build up flushed out of coco, what we can flush out easy is pretty much everything else, salts included.

coco is used many times in reverse osmosis filters, to clean it of calcium etc.

remarkable thing, coco...

peace

 

[Justin_Credible]

Question/s

Question/s

what's up folks

If I have my nutes ph'd at 5.8 and ppm at 750....what should the run off be? Should the ph and run off be higher then what is going in?
That is what I am experiencing...like, ph is now 6.1 and ppm at 880 ish...

Also, I saw previous (while searching this thread, thanks again B.C.) MGK mention adj ph before adding cal-mag...that it is just an additive and does not change ph in nute solution when u add it? I took MGK's advice and am using 5ml cal/mag per gal but have been adding it to my reservoir along with rest of nutes...then adj my ph. Usually comes in at 6.1 and drop it to 5.8. Is this ok? Or am I creating a problem for down the road by not adding cal mag till after i am done mixing nutes and adj ph????

 

[bonecarver_OG]

as i see it cal mag should be seen as part of the nutes.

i for one allways add all nutes and aditives BEFORE i adjsut the PH. last thing inn the chain isto0 make sure the PH is stable and that the EC is what u want it to be - BEFORe watering.

when the return water from the pots have higher PH than whenyou water, keep watering a bit extra untill it is same as going in.

EC should be 0.1 to 0.3 above what u are feeding, according to agricultural standards.

besides the above, my best tip`on the side of an regular nute schedule is to water with minimum nutes and or jsut ph adjusted water every now and then.

when hand watering i think up to a 30 to 50% flush out is adecuate for my conditions, but this has to do with ambient conditions. in my warm room the pots dry out very quick, even if they are 5 gallon pots. so its very helpfull to water a lot in excess.

peace

 

[Justin_Credible]

Hey B.C,
Thanks for the response. I have yet to see my 2 gals dry out after one day. I am actually giving them water the last two days because my ppm was too high coming out. Ph almost the same, a bit higher at say 6.0. So once they start drying out I can just go nutes everyday? Until then water every few feedings is what your saying?

 

[bonecarver_OG]

1 - yes

2 - you can water before the coco has dried out, once the roots can take it. no benefit in waterlogging the coco so its a fine line to walk.

with coco as in hydro it is important to look at you plants and to learn to know them and their signals. some plants handle stronger nute EC than others, same goes with PH.

there is no golden rule besides the normal few, water in excess to wash out salts and old water, keep the ph in check and same goes with the EC. both going in and out..

in other words, i think you should adjust the watering to the need of the plants.

in veg i think it is benefitial to water with nutes most of the waterings. i only give plain ph water only a few days a month.

most of all i think it is important to water in excess to get a good flush out in each watering. this is the best method to make sure the nute levels in the coco stay as close to what you are feeding as possible. if not watered in excess, nutes WILL build up quick, and with a dry moment the EC can go twice as high or more.

i think personally in flowering too much depends on ambient conditions to aply same rule for all.

genreally the more light - the more PK the plants can handle, and the more the pots get flushed, the more often you can feed them with it.

for the first few grows in coco i dont recomend to experiment too much with PK, rather just keep to the manufacturers advice. once more comfortable and with more know how, it is ok to experiement.

personally i think plants in the rigth conditions can handle enormous amounts of PK and will produce there after.

maybe a bit more info than u asked for but i hope it serves to some as a guide

peace all

 

[Justin_Credible]

1 - yes

2 - you can water before the coco has dried out, once the roots can take it. no benefit in waterlogging the coco so its a fine line to walk.

with coco as in hydro it is important to look at you plants and to learn to know them and their signals. some plants handle stronger nute EC than others, same goes with PH.

there is no golden rule besides the normal few, water in excess to wash out salts and old water, keep the ph in check and same goes with the EC. both going in and out..

in other words, i think you should adjust the watering to the need of the plants.

in veg i think it is benefitial to water with nutes most of the waterings. i only give plain ph water only a few days a month.

most of all i think it is important to water in excess to get a good flush out in each watering. this is the best method to make sure the nute levels in the coco stay as close to what you are feeding as possible. if not watered in excess, nutes WILL build up quick, and with a dry moment the EC can go twice as high or more.

i think personally in flowering too much depends on ambient conditions to aply same rule for all.

genreally the more light - the more PK the plants can handle, and the more the pots get flushed, the more often you can feed them with it.

for the first few grows in coco i dont recomend to experiment too much with PK, rather just keep to the manufacturers advice. once more comfortable and with more know how, it is ok to experiement.

personally i think plants in the rigth conditions can handle enormous amounts of PK and will produce there after.

maybe a bit more info than u asked for but i hope it serves to some as a guide

peace all

Answer #2!!! Thank U!! That is what I am trying to get to...be able to walk that fine line. Once the pot has full roots it is basically water/feed away! Correct?

I had some cuts that looked like shit! I tested the run off and it was like 1300ppm....and these are only 6 inches or so tall, two week old cuts at best. I thought I had salt build up so I took a 5 gal full of 6.0 and took each one out of its pot, and washed away the coco...I realized that the plants barely had any roots! Is this because I was walking too far on one side of the line? As in what you mentioned by letting the roots get bigger before hosing everyday? Sort of like soil in that let them dry out a bit for root building?
So basically, i waterlogged them?

Also, please do not ever fell like you are giving us/me too much info B.C. ...thanks again for the help.

 

[buddin_904]

^ word to bonecrusher....sick advice as always.....i can tell when people bullshit me instantly, and i can tell when people know what the fuck their talking about so keep it coming

 

[Justin_Credible]

^ word to bonecrusher....sick advice as always.....i can tell when people bullshit me instantly, and i can tell when people know what the fuck their talking about so keep it coming

plethora of info in this thread...it has helped me out quite a bit with my 1st endeavor with coco.

 

[EddieShoestring]

yeah-well done , BC. I've seen you help alot of people over the years

cheers
eddieS

 

[StrictlyGateway]

Answer #2!!! Thank U!! That is what I am trying to get to...be able to walk that fine line. Once the pot has full roots it is basically water/feed away! Correct?

I had some cuts that looked like shit! I tested the run off and it was like 1300ppm....and these are only 6 inches or so tall, two week old cuts at best. I thought I had salt build up so I took a 5 gal full of 6.0 and took each one out of its pot, and washed away the coco...I realized that the plants barely had any roots! Is this because I was walking too far on one side of the line? As in what you mentioned by letting the roots get bigger before hosing everyday? Sort of like soil in that let them dry out a bit for root building?
So basically, i waterlogged them?

Also, please do not ever fell like you are giving us/me too much info B.C. ...thanks again for the help.

i don't know what your cloning method is, but at that stage, my money is on the cubes. in my case, it's oasis cubes. and when the cut is just starting to pop roots, it is still relying on the cube for all its water needs. whenever i transplant cuts with little root system, i pour a bit of water over the cubes every day, certainly every other day (for about a week, or so). after that point, when the plant has a well established root system, evidenced by new growth...crank it up, more water, more often. my guess in your case is that the cubes were drying out, and just because the coco was wet, the plant wasn't able to get any of that water.

as opposed to soil, i don't think that coco needs to dry out. the porosity is such that O2 is always able to get to the roots, and when you water you add more O2 also.

there are hormones, released by the roots, which control transpiration (plant water use). when the substrate begins to dry, the roots tell the shoots to slow up, which the plant does by closing stomata, which inhibits both transpiration AND CO2 uptake, a double negative in our gardens. so in coco, we can water water water, and the plant never 'thinks' it needs to conserve...the resources will always be there. that's what we intend to take advantage of.

hope this helps.

BC is the man, not trying to hijack.

 

[Justin_Credible]

i don't know what your cloning method is, but at that stage, my money is on the cubes. in my case, it's oasis cubes. and when the cut is just starting to pop roots, it is still relying on the cube for all its water needs. whenever i transplant cuts with little root system, i pour a bit of water over the cubes every day, certainly every other day (for about a week, or so). after that point, when the plant has a well established root system, evidenced by new growth...crank it up, more water, more often. my guess in your case is that the cubes were drying out, and just because the coco was wet, the plant wasn't able to get any of that water.

as opposed to soil, i don't think that coco needs to dry out. the porosity is such that O2 is always able to get to the roots, and when you water you add more O2 also.

there are hormones, released by the roots, which control transpiration (plant water use). when the substrate begins to dry, the roots tell the shoots to slow up, which the plant does by closing stomata, which inhibits both transpiration AND CO2 uptake, a double negative in our gardens. so in coco, we can water water water, and the plant never 'thinks' it needs to conserve...the resources will always be there. that's what we intend to take advantage of.

hope this helps.

BC is the man, not trying to hijack.

Hi Strictly Gateway, I'm Justin, Justin Credible. Nice to meet you. Thanks so much for the advice...much appreciated. I am getting ready to make my 1st thread in the coco forum soon.
I've got more questions dammit!

 

[jjs]

Hi all!

I am currently growing in coco and drawing to the end of the flower
period , I have a question regarding flushing , I am hand watering . My question was with the last week of flowering do I just use water (no nutes) as I was told this will flush a majority of the salts?

Cheers
jj's

 

[MaynardG_Krebs]

Hi all!

I am currently growing in coco and drawing to the end of the flower
period , I have a question regarding flushing , I am hand watering . My question was with the last week of flowering do I just use water (no nutes) as I was told this will flush a majority of the salts?

Cheers
jj's

I use a 10% dilution (90% water and 10% nutrient solution) along with 10ml/qt of General Hydroponics FloraKleen. I do this at least 10 days before harvest. I'm sure you'll get several opinions on this, but it's an important step to get rid of the leftover nutrients in the plant before harvest.

mgk

 

[StrictlyGateway]

Hi all!

I am currently growing in coco and drawing to the end of the flower
period , I have a question regarding flushing , I am hand watering . My question was with the last week of flowering do I just use water (no nutes) as I was told this will flush a majority of the salts?

Cheers
jj's

as maynard suggests, 'flush' is going to have as many definitions as their are growers.

a flush can be:
- highly diluted nutrient mixture
- plain water (pH adjusted)
- clearex, florakleen, some other such
- some folks will use sugars as a flush also (molasses)
- a combination of the above...

personally, i do a 2 week flush. the first 4-7 days, i use clearex, the final week, it's pH adjusted water only. the reason for the flush is exactly as you understand it...to rid (or prevent) the substrate of salt build-up.

and i'll say it again....drain to waste is also a means to control salt build up throughout the grow... that's my story and i'm stickin to it.

 

[Justin_Credible]

I use a 10% dilution (90% water and 10% nutrient solution) along with 10ml/qt of General Hydroponics FloraKleen. I do this at least 10 days before harvest. I'm sure you'll get several opinions on this, but it's an important step to get rid of the leftover nutrients in the plant before harvest.

mgk

Sooooo, when I was in soil I just hit them for the last two weeks with nothing but water ph'd at 6.1-6.3....but with coco I need to get something else? Why? I can't just flush the weed with straight water? I thought coco held less then soil and it would be only like 7-10 days with straight water to get the white ash????
I am just asking for clarification here MGK....I have utilized lots of your advice so far and it has helped enormously.

 

[Bubbles84]

hi folks!

how many times you can re-use coco? i used same medium 6'th times and I wonder if I can still do so ... just before harvest i use just water+ cannazyme. is it a sound good to using many many times the same coco? peace.