The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[boobs]

Any Vendors for Soil you guys recommend in SoCal....I need like 50+ yards

in my opinion you're better off using your own formula and then finding a place to mix it for you, saving you lots of work.

if you buy a pre-mixed ...mix, with a formula 'they' make, they're going to be price gouging you in some way and then stuff you don't want to be in it is probably going to be in it, and even if they say 'this' is in it, not all amendments are created equal, pay attention to quality of the amendments. don't pay someone to come up with a formula for you, there are plenty of great formulas for soil mixes out there. this is how people get taken advantage of imo.

I've heard quotes as low as $2 per yard to mix 'your' mix, so have them deliver your peat, aeration such as lava rock, perlite etc, and high quality compost. (i'm using diestel) to the mixing site that you find. then choose your amendments, I posted the mix we're doing this year a couple pages back.

here it is again, I don't think you can go wrong with this one, similar to the CC mix but with some slight changes.

30% sphagnum peat
30% lava rock
30% high quality compost
10% top soil, this you may or may not do, if you're going to have it mixed at a place then this'll probably have to be screened to filter out rocks, I'd contact whatever place you find about this.

for amendments we went with:

1/2 cup neem meal, neemresource.com
1/2 cup kelp meal, Down-to-earth
1/2 cup crab meal, Down-to-earth
1/2 cup gypsum
1/2 cup oyster shell flour

4 cup rock dust, contact thomas vanacore at rockdustlocal, he knows a good hookup for rock dust in california.

that's the amounts per cubic foot, there are 27 cubic feet in a yard.

if you're on a tight budget you can use karanja meal which is slightly cheaper than neem and also probably cut back the rock dust to 2 cups/cu ft.

 

[Bulldog420]

boobs - Great couple of posts, thanks for the information. Copy and pasted into my notes.

 

[milkyjoe]

boobs....I think that diestel compost is probably excellent stuff. Midwest Bio Systems is possibly the only composting system that works...or not (I am really down on most compost at the moment). That ought to be a great formula.

 

[somoz]

gettin ready to set up supplemental lighting... anyone know where I can get twist lock sockets like butte used on his shit? I cant find them anywhere online only regular and snap in sockets...

Pass & Seymour 43308CC10 600 Watt 250 Volt Socket Adapter -


I've used these with no ill effect during bad weather and you can wire them up using speaker wire = cheap.


So if you have a big run with a lot of sites we use these and then pound 8 or 10 foot t's into the ground and string electrical fence wire to hold them up.


http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Pas...600-Watt-250-Volt-Socket-Adapter-u244517.html

 

[boobs]

boobs....I think that diestel compost is probably excellent stuff. Midwest Bio Systems is possibly the only composting system that works...or not (I am really down on most compost at the moment). That ought to be a great formula.

someone told me that they saw the analysis of this year's diestel and it was the best yet! higher humic levels than any year before. not sure if true, but at least I didn't hear the opposite eh?

sun is shining

 

[bowdilla]

as well as once a week ipm with varying concoctions such as karanja oil emulsified with KSil and aloe as a surfacant, to things that I brewed up myself by collecting different plants around the house like lavender, rose, mints and other stuff. it's been really enjoyable being involved with all the plants around the house

by ipm do you mean integrated pest management? starts looks great

 

[hooddro]

Pass & Seymour 43308CC10 600 Watt 250 Volt Socket Adapter -


I've used these with no ill effect during bad weather and you can wire them up using speaker wire = cheap.


So if you have a big run with a lot of sites we use these and then pound 8 or 10 foot t's into the ground and string electrical fence wire to hold them up.


http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Pas...600-Watt-250-Volt-Socket-Adapter-u244517.html

hey somoz how many bulbs are you running on a strand? Im trying to decide on what i can get away with... im worried about line loss, anyone have any suggestions?

 

[boobs]

by ipm do you mean integrated pest management? starts looks great

yeah! that's what i meant. I know lots of you guys are on the nutrient density bandwagon, so I'll use an example from one of the things that clicked with me back when I was listening to an audio clip of Dan Kittredge ...he said to go on a hike around your area and find the greenest plants and to collect them, bubble them in some water and apply as a foliar spray. the thinking being that you can culture some of the beneficial phyllospheric microbes naturally occuring and living in your area. I really like that idea and what a great way to encourage people to get to know the plants in their area and get out into the great outdoors.

For me yarrow is the winner, there's so much of it growing near me, it's EVERYWHERE! besides being a dynamic accumulator I read microbeman talking about their being tons of different microbes living on it's leaves. I always make sure to grab some other particularly lush looking plants too. But, I'd be confident using yarrow alone.

 

[Shcrews]

thanks for all the info boobs

 

[CaliGabe]

yeah! that's what i meant. I know lots of you guys are on the nutrient density bandwagon, so I'll use an example from one of the things that clicked with me back when I was listening to an audio clip of Dan Kittredge ...he said to go on a hike around your area and find the greenest plants and to collect them, bubble them in some water and apply as a foliar spray. the thinking being that you can culture some of the beneficial phyllospheric microbes naturally occuring and living in your area. I really like that idea and what a great way to encourage people to get to know the plants in their area and get out into the great outdoors.

For me yarrow is the winner, there's so much of it growing near me, it's EVERYWHERE! besides being a dynamic accumulator I read microbeman talking about their being tons of different microbes living on it's leaves. I always make sure to grab some other particularly lush looking plants too. But, I'd be confident using yarrow alone.

One of the things you'll find is that native plants are VERY high in K and excessive use can backfire on you. I worked with Bob Pike at Pike Agri Labs testing some local native plants and K levels typically off the charts. High levels of K are a good antifreeze though . I'm totally with you on the using local/native plant thing regarding phyllospheric microbes. You can look to the nutritional industry where some products are based on soil and leaf bacterial cultures.

 

[somoz]

hey somoz how many bulbs are you running on a strand? Im trying to decide on what i can get away with... im worried about line loss, anyone have any suggestions?

I've run up to 40 fluorescent bulbs on one line: zero loss. Remember to wire up an outdoor encased plug to the speaker wire though in case of rough weather.

 

[warthog]

in my opinion you're better off using your own formula and then finding a place to mix it for you, saving you lots of work.

if you buy a pre-mixed ...mix, with a formula 'they' make, they're going to be price gouging you in some way and then stuff you don't want to be in it is probably going to be in it, and even if they say 'this' is in it, not all amendments are created equal, pay attention to quality of the amendments. don't pay someone to come up with a formula for you, there are plenty of great formulas for soil mixes out there. this is how people get taken advantage of imo.

I've heard quotes as low as $2 per yard to mix 'your' mix, so have them deliver your peat, aeration such as lava rock, perlite etc, and high quality compost. (i'm using diestel) to the mixing site that you find. then choose your amendments, I posted the mix we're doing this year a couple pages back.

here it is again, I don't think you can go wrong with this one, similar to the CC mix but with some slight changes.

30% sphagnum peat
30% lava rock
30% high quality compost
10% top soil, this you may or may not do, if you're going to have it mixed at a place then this'll probably have to be screened to filter out rocks, I'd contact whatever place you find about this.

for amendments we went with:

1/2 cup neem meal, neemresource.com
1/2 cup kelp meal, Down-to-earth
1/2 cup crab meal, Down-to-earth
1/2 cup gypsum
1/2 cup oyster shell flour

4 cup rock dust, contact thomas vanacore at rockdustlocal, he knows a good hookup for rock dust in california.

that's the amounts per cubic foot, there are 27 cubic feet in a yard.

if you're on a tight budget you can use karanja meal which is slightly cheaper than neem and also probably cut back the rock dust to 2 cups/cu ft.

No EWC?

 

[boobs]

No EWC?

too expensive, and the diestel is good stuff, i'm sure there are worms in it doing their gig. a big vermicomposting system is on the todo list. If you remember from my thread last year I made a small one, I've used that as a source for the extrapolation that goes on during the compost tea brewing and used that as a type of inoculate to get the most bang for my buck.

One of the things you'll find is that native plants are VERY high in K and excessive use can backfire on you. I worked with Bob Pike at Pike Agri Labs testing some local native plants and K levels typically off the charts. High levels of K are a good antifreeze though . I'm totally with you on the using local/native plant thing regarding phyllospheric microbes. You can look to the nutritional industry where some products are based on soil and leaf bacterial cultures.

I'm thinking that by the time it'd 'backfire' I'll have a high fungal population and a thriving system that is in balance and capable of regulating itself ...and I'm really not top dressing much, I just throw on some yarrow/horsetails/mullein ...whatever I stuff in my pockets while out walking the dogs. Currently in the light dep beds there is also a 20+ species living mulch, I imagine that any excesses of this or that will be accumulated by one of them and tied up in decaying organic matter over time. Then it's up to trusting the soil food web to digest and determine what the plant needs when.

how broad of an area did you test native plants? some people say you can read the native soil by surveying the weeds growing there which makes sense to me, sort of part of the idea of successive species/pioneer plants and how forests come to be etc. http://oregonbd.org/Class/weeds.htm

 

[Backyard Farmer]

What seed mix are you using for your cover in your beds? I want to put something in to out compete weeds and make it nice to walk around.

 

[boobs]

thanks for asking, here's a picture of the lush impenetrable mat of the living mulch as of a week or so ago.

besides this 15 species blend we have also added some pollinator mix from peaceful valley.

http://buildasoil.com/collections/frontpage/products/cover-crop-blend

here's the list for the lazy.

Barley - Haybet
Oats - Jerry
Flax - Brown
Buckweat - Mancan
Lentils - Indianhead
Safflower
Millet - Golden German
Hairy Vetch
Vetch Common
Millet - White Proso
Rape - Dwarf Essex
Japanese Millet
Clover - Medium Red
Clover - White Dutch
Clover - Crimson

can you see the pictures i'm posting? my ip address is banned and i'm having a hell of a time doing much of anything on here...

 

[Daub Marley]

What kind of supplemental lighting are you guys using? I only need something to keep them in veg. I was thinking of using some CFLs, but I can't seem to find an approved fixture with reflector for cheap. Just curious to see what you guys are running.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Yes boobs I can see the pictures

 

[CaliGabe]

I'm thinking that by the time it'd 'backfire' I'll have a high fungal population and a thriving system that is in balance and capable of regulating itself ...and I'm really not top dressing much, I just throw on some yarrow/horsetails/mullein ...whatever I stuff in my pockets while out walking the dogs. Currently in the light dep beds there is also a 20+ species living mulch, I imagine that any excesses of this or that will be accumulated by one of them and tied up in decaying organic matter over time. Then it's up to trusting the soil food web to digest and determine what the plant needs when.

how broad of an area did you test native plants? some people say you can read the native soil by surveying the weeds growing there which makes sense to me, sort of part of the idea of successive species/pioneer plants and how forests come to be etc. http://oregonbd.org/Class/weeds.htm

It's pretty easy to validate your hypothesis (educated guess) regarding what's going on by doing some simple testing. I'm not of the school of thought that the soil food web balances everything out and has it's limits. Until something is verified it's simply speculation. IMO simply having a lot of organic matter and a healthy micro population is not the solution for balancing things out that are beyond their capability to do so.

I only sent samples to Bob from a limited area. He tested pH, EC, K, Ca, Na and NO3 if I'm remembering correctly. My computer crashed and lost the files.

Sure you can get a good handle on the general soil makeup by observing which native plants grow in a particular area. My friend in CO told one of the agronomists at AEA he had a lot of bindweed in the area and the response was basically...you have a lot of Ca in the soil that's not being made available due to excessive K levels. Sure enough a soil test confirmed that. Same thing would happen with canna if the base saturation rate is way out of whack...excessive K would interfere with Ca uptake.

 

[CaliGabe]

A friend just got his soil test back and 4x the optimal level of K. He attempted to balance the mix by providing his own amendments to Build a Soil to do the blend using their base materials. His soil food web won't help him out of this predicament. Milkyjoe warned me about Build a Soil's compost and I told my friend yet he missed the mark.

He's gonna retest, possibly re-blend/adjust at his place and at the least will most likely be using some Ca foliars through the season.

He is also picking up a few sap meters to get a better handle on what's happening as the grow progresses.

 

[boobs]

It's pretty easy to validate your hypothesis (educated guess) regarding what's going on by doing some simple testing. I'm not of the school of thought that the soil food web balances everything out and has it's limits. Until something is verified it's simply speculation. IMO simply having a lot of organic matter and a healthy micro population is not the solution for balancing things out that are beyond their capability to do so.

I only sent samples to Bob from a limited area. He tested pH, EC, K, Ca, Na and NO3 if I'm remembering correctly. My computer crashed and lost the files.

Sure you can get a good handle on the general soil makeup by observing which native plants grow in a particular area. My friend in CO told one of the agronomists at AEA he had a lot of bindweed in the area and the response was basically...you have a lot of Ca in the soil that's not being made available due to excessive K levels. Sure enough a soil test confirmed that. Same thing would happen with canna if the base saturation rate is way out of whack...excessive K would interfere with Ca uptake.

interesting, I'm not against soil tests at all. thanks for your input, I'm just trying to show my mindset going into establishing beds and working with nature as much as possible with the intention of moving towards no-til down the road.

at some point looking at things only through how nature works to establish forests breaks down because we are obviously not completely replicating a natural system, by holding it back and trying to keep it where we want for growing the crops we choose to.

A friend just got his soil test back and 4x the optimal level of K. He attempted to balance the mix by providing his own amendments to Build a Soil to do the blend using their base materials. His soil food web won't help him out of this predicament. Milkyjoe warned me about Build a Soil's compost and I told my friend yet he missed the mark.

He's gonna retest, possibly re-blend/adjust at his place and at the least will most likely be using some Ca foliars through the season.

He is also picking up a few sap meters to get a better handle on what's happening as the grow progresses.

that's a bummer, pretty hard to back track if you don't start with good compost don't you think? Being in California I've never looked into their compost.