SagePreSkool
Member
DS Toker-
So your bottle is buried vertically with the holes in the bottom of the bottle?
So your bottle is buried vertically with the holes in the bottom of the bottle?
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Beautiful BC
New member
harold said:
I wedge some small rocks in the end of the hose just so the water doesn't all run out the end too quickly. Drilled 1/4" holes in the hose about every inch or two along because I didn't want to worry about mud or debris from the water clogging them from the inside. No 2 liter bottle, I just used a few old buckets I had laying around. 2-3 gallon size? Drilled a hole according to the outside diameter of the hose in the side of the bucket, right at the bottom. Stuff the hose through into the bottom of the bucket. Glue around the joint or use putty, silicone.. duct tape, whatever floats your boat... I wasn't worried about leaks so I just kept it really simple.
As long as the water is going under the surface and not running off/wetting the surface, you're doing it right. If you are going for a slow release system I guess you need a sealed reservoir like the 2 liter bottles lots of people seem to use successfully.
My take on the design isn't meant to slowly drip water in as the plant needs it, I just dump some water in the bucket and let it drain through the hose underground to the root zone. One setup per plant. This watering method pretty much eliminated blossom end rot on my tomatoes, which is caused by uneven watering.
DS: how many bottles do you bury per plant? If just one, do you find that having a single point source of water encourages a smaller root system?
Hi BBc
Yes, verticle and buried to the point that the bottle top is level with the soil surface.
When i first saw this thread i was excited and i experimented with several different applications. I initially tried the original design with 2 milk jugs. What i found was that the water ran out of the lower bottle so fast that it wasnt practicle to try and initiate a slow feed method. In every instance if i filled the buried bottle with water, it emptied completely within 60 seconds or less. I use a 3/16" drill bit to make my holes. I tried to make smaller holes (1/8) but it didnt effect the outflow rate hardly at all but my holes got stopped up. I abandoned the effort at slow feed.
Then i just buried a gallon milk jug and when i watered or fertilized, i just took off the top ande poured in the water/nutes. This worked very well and decreased the amount of water i had to carry by more than 1/2. The result was simply great.
It was after experiencing the buried milk jug and its wonderful benefits i did a little more experimenting with some late plants.
Because the water was running out of the milk jug so fast, i began to question whether or not the size of the jug/bottle was significant. The gallon jug is big and hard to bury in the hole and it requires the hole to be bigger . But worse, because of the amount of air the gallon jug will hold, if a significant rainfall comes along saturating the soil, the big gallon jug willl dislodge and float up. Also, the smaller bottle delivers the water at a shallower depth, 8" or so where as the milk jug was 12" deep. The moisture is more beneficial at 8" than it is at 12"
So at this point, i tried buring a small listerine mouthwash bottle and low and behold, the water ran right out of it as quick and with the very same effect as the gallon jug. excellent.
Now i know that the size of the bottle is insignificant and that the real value is the process of releasing the water below grade and a small buried bottle will release water at the same rate as a larger bottle. You just have to wait 10 seconds for the smaller bottle to empty and then refill it.
Now, ill often use even a 12 oz orange juice botte. I plant my seedling and within 6" of it i plant my little bottle with holes in it. At the end of the year, i pull up the plant and the litte bottle comes up with the root ball and its clear that the roots of the plant have concentrated around the little bottle and actually grown all through it. It becomes part of the rootball.
I wouldn t grow any other way. This is a miracle and has truly changed my growing and increased my watering effectiveness by more than i can describe.
BBc, if you try this method it will change your growing life. The greatest thing since female seeds.
Yes, verticle and buried to the point that the bottle top is level with the soil surface.
When i first saw this thread i was excited and i experimented with several different applications. I initially tried the original design with 2 milk jugs. What i found was that the water ran out of the lower bottle so fast that it wasnt practicle to try and initiate a slow feed method. In every instance if i filled the buried bottle with water, it emptied completely within 60 seconds or less. I use a 3/16" drill bit to make my holes. I tried to make smaller holes (1/8) but it didnt effect the outflow rate hardly at all but my holes got stopped up. I abandoned the effort at slow feed.
Then i just buried a gallon milk jug and when i watered or fertilized, i just took off the top ande poured in the water/nutes. This worked very well and decreased the amount of water i had to carry by more than 1/2. The result was simply great.
It was after experiencing the buried milk jug and its wonderful benefits i did a little more experimenting with some late plants.
Because the water was running out of the milk jug so fast, i began to question whether or not the size of the jug/bottle was significant. The gallon jug is big and hard to bury in the hole and it requires the hole to be bigger . But worse, because of the amount of air the gallon jug will hold, if a significant rainfall comes along saturating the soil, the big gallon jug willl dislodge and float up. Also, the smaller bottle delivers the water at a shallower depth, 8" or so where as the milk jug was 12" deep. The moisture is more beneficial at 8" than it is at 12"
So at this point, i tried buring a small listerine mouthwash bottle and low and behold, the water ran right out of it as quick and with the very same effect as the gallon jug. excellent.
Now i know that the size of the bottle is insignificant and that the real value is the process of releasing the water below grade and a small buried bottle will release water at the same rate as a larger bottle. You just have to wait 10 seconds for the smaller bottle to empty and then refill it.
Now, ill often use even a 12 oz orange juice botte. I plant my seedling and within 6" of it i plant my little bottle with holes in it. At the end of the year, i pull up the plant and the litte bottle comes up with the root ball and its clear that the roots of the plant have concentrated around the little bottle and actually grown all through it. It becomes part of the rootball.
I wouldn t grow any other way. This is a miracle and has truly changed my growing and increased my watering effectiveness by more than i can describe.
BBc, if you try this method it will change your growing life. The greatest thing since female seeds.
deadbeef, youre doing yourself a favor of which you will only understand the full benefit at the end of this growing season.
Once you know, give the info to others
Once you know, give the info to others
wisco61
Member
I took a couple of pictures of a collar after use and figured I should share them in this thread. This was used the previous year and had been sitting in the attic for months. So while a lot of the root mass had fallen off, you can still see some remnants.
I cut the Sham-wow wrapping off of one, and there were roots which had grown inside the wrapping.
I cut the Sham-wow wrapping off of one, and there were roots which had grown inside the wrapping.
Very cool pics so did you use water-soluble ferts and what size bottle did you hook up to the collar?
DS was saying that his buried water bottle method emptied quickly how long does it take yours to empty?
So do you bring multiple water bottles to the site or are the holes far apart and you carry one bottle to do the watering?
DS was saying that his buried water bottle method emptied quickly how long does it take yours to empty?
So do you bring multiple water bottles to the site or are the holes far apart and you carry one bottle to do the watering?
wisco61
Member
Last year I just used molasses water and gave each plant its own 2 liter. 3 of the plants took about 45 mins to an hour to drain, one plant did in about 15 mins. I usually stuck the 2 liters on then walked to my swamp tubes. By the time I got back to the collars, they were empty. A couple times I left the 2 liters sitting in the collars for a week and they were fine when I returned. My soil is very sandy and though I have amended it a bit, heavier soils would probably take a few hours to drain the 2 liter. Silverback also talked about laying down a bed of compost and water crystals, that would also slow the watering.
SagePreSkool
Member
DS- Thanks a ton! I'm going to try the 12 oz bottles and see how it goes. It seems like the easiest and most practical way to water. I have a couple questions though..
What was the average drain time for the 12 oz bottles?
How big were your plants and how often were you watering? Every day?
Thanks!
What was the average drain time for the 12 oz bottles?
How big were your plants and how often were you watering? Every day?
Thanks!
I found that water drained from all devices'at the same rate, whether it was a gallon jug or 12 ozs. My efforts also led me to understand that hole size isnt very relevant, with the exception that holes of an 1/8" or less get stopped up and then u have to take a long screwdriver and punch a new hole thats bigger.
My little bottles have 4 - 3/16" holes drilled in them. 2 holes in the very bottom, and 2 more higher up -3/4" from the bottom. With these 4 small holes, the water drains almost immediately. A gallong jug will drain in 20-30 seconds, a 12 oz bottle in 10 seconds.
I dont have any idea how growers are getting the water to leach from the jugs at a slower rate than ive experienced. Perhaps it is that soil which contains much more clay may compact more which would serve to disallow drainage. My soil is loose and organic and drains very well.
Logically, if viewed in the larger sense, how much benefit is there when the jug takes an hour to drain over it taking 1 minute to drain? If the same amount of water is being dlispersed to the same root area and is being delivered to the same amount of soil, i have trouble seeing the differenece. The difference in a plant that recieved a 1 hour delivery and a those that recieved a 1 minute delivery averaged over the week of time between waterings is undetectable. If there was a way to leach it out over several days, then slow drain would be beneficial but 1 hour doesnt seem relative to me.
Sagepreschool, my plant size varies with strain. The blue hash im growing gets big - 9 feet, the sensi star and biddy early are 6-7 footers.
I water/feed when they need it. In 2008, we had an extreme drought and those plants had to be watered 2x per week, 2 gallons per. Last year we were innondated with rain and i only used the bottles 4 times - delivereing a couple of doses of nitrogen at the first of july because ive learned that 1/2 of the plants total growth occcurs between july 1 and aug 15, and then again in the firts weeks of sept, i delivered a couple of doses of bloom ferts.
Wisco's point about SB's compost/water crystal bed is a good one and it extends the effectiveness of the watering considerably. If you are only growing a few plants, say 10 or less, its great. Its hard to do with lots of plants though. It does have the effect of causing the plant roots to grow around and inside the bottle in a much more extreme expression.
One other thing i did that seemed to be very effective and b enificial was to put some of the sham-wow, super absorbent material into my jug. It appeared that the soil/roots growing around the bottle had the capacity to suck/leach the water stored in that piece of cloth into the soil at a slower rate. It would take a week or more before the moisture would be gone from the material. I think it also encouraged the roots to grow toward and into the bottle
My little bottles have 4 - 3/16" holes drilled in them. 2 holes in the very bottom, and 2 more higher up -3/4" from the bottom. With these 4 small holes, the water drains almost immediately. A gallong jug will drain in 20-30 seconds, a 12 oz bottle in 10 seconds.
I dont have any idea how growers are getting the water to leach from the jugs at a slower rate than ive experienced. Perhaps it is that soil which contains much more clay may compact more which would serve to disallow drainage. My soil is loose and organic and drains very well.
Logically, if viewed in the larger sense, how much benefit is there when the jug takes an hour to drain over it taking 1 minute to drain? If the same amount of water is being dlispersed to the same root area and is being delivered to the same amount of soil, i have trouble seeing the differenece. The difference in a plant that recieved a 1 hour delivery and a those that recieved a 1 minute delivery averaged over the week of time between waterings is undetectable. If there was a way to leach it out over several days, then slow drain would be beneficial but 1 hour doesnt seem relative to me.
Sagepreschool, my plant size varies with strain. The blue hash im growing gets big - 9 feet, the sensi star and biddy early are 6-7 footers.
I water/feed when they need it. In 2008, we had an extreme drought and those plants had to be watered 2x per week, 2 gallons per. Last year we were innondated with rain and i only used the bottles 4 times - delivereing a couple of doses of nitrogen at the first of july because ive learned that 1/2 of the plants total growth occcurs between july 1 and aug 15, and then again in the firts weeks of sept, i delivered a couple of doses of bloom ferts.
Wisco's point about SB's compost/water crystal bed is a good one and it extends the effectiveness of the watering considerably. If you are only growing a few plants, say 10 or less, its great. Its hard to do with lots of plants though. It does have the effect of causing the plant roots to grow around and inside the bottle in a much more extreme expression.
One other thing i did that seemed to be very effective and b enificial was to put some of the sham-wow, super absorbent material into my jug. It appeared that the soil/roots growing around the bottle had the capacity to suck/leach the water stored in that piece of cloth into the soil at a slower rate. It would take a week or more before the moisture would be gone from the material. I think it also encouraged the roots to grow toward and into the bottle
my opinion on watering?
Ive seen it over and over, year after year. If the plants recieve plenty of rain and have ample moisture, then they always flower early. Plentiful moisture speeds flowering by as much as a week to 10 days earlier than years with "adequate" rainfall/moisture. It also results in the flowering process being more consistent. The buds form at a consistent rate and are hard and dense.
Dry weather has a significant and detrimental impact on flower onset and on the rate of flowering. Serious water deprivation, even if the plant doesnt wilt, will cause weeks in the delay of flower onset and a serious delay in the rate of flower. Buds form much slower and are far less dense when dry conditions exist.
Example. Ive grown Mikado twice. Its a fast flowering indica, (50days).and normally finishes late sept. With plenty of moisture, mikado finishes fast, the last week of sept. In 2008, because of hot dry weather, the same strain started to flower 3 weeks later than normal and i cut the unfinished plants on november 2. That scenario is a good indicator of the impact of moisture depravation on cannabis. I don't think there is any exception to the rule.
LOts of moisture= early flower
Dry periods = slow flower, poor maturation and bud formation.
How can a grower speed up the onset of flower? Moisture. I water when i think the plants are dry. I never wait in hopes that it will rain.
Ive seen it over and over, year after year. If the plants recieve plenty of rain and have ample moisture, then they always flower early. Plentiful moisture speeds flowering by as much as a week to 10 days earlier than years with "adequate" rainfall/moisture. It also results in the flowering process being more consistent. The buds form at a consistent rate and are hard and dense.
Dry weather has a significant and detrimental impact on flower onset and on the rate of flowering. Serious water deprivation, even if the plant doesnt wilt, will cause weeks in the delay of flower onset and a serious delay in the rate of flower. Buds form much slower and are far less dense when dry conditions exist.
Example. Ive grown Mikado twice. Its a fast flowering indica, (50days).and normally finishes late sept. With plenty of moisture, mikado finishes fast, the last week of sept. In 2008, because of hot dry weather, the same strain started to flower 3 weeks later than normal and i cut the unfinished plants on november 2. That scenario is a good indicator of the impact of moisture depravation on cannabis. I don't think there is any exception to the rule.
LOts of moisture= early flower
Dry periods = slow flower, poor maturation and bud formation.
How can a grower speed up the onset of flower? Moisture. I water when i think the plants are dry. I never wait in hopes that it will rain.
C
coxswain
In my climate only problem presents hot summer. I can only wish for long warm and dry fall. What else could a guerilla grower want? This is the first time I hear moisture influences start of flowering. Well ... you learn something every day.
I experimented with guerilla collar last year. I used plain plastic water containers with some padding material.
Water drained immediately out of them. If I'd use them again I would drill 1/2 mm holes or even smaller. Anyway ... I'm not using them again since dragging unnecessary equipment into the woods defies with guerrilla logic. At least for me. Hole preparation is the key to a successful harvest.
Of course, there are places where this can be very useful mainly in dry climates but I doubt your watering hikes will be less frequent since plant will adapt and grow bigger than usual and that also means more water. I'm sure less water will go to waste with this system and that's it's strong point.
SagePreSkool
Member
Lots of great help! Thanks.
Great post. It sparked an idea in my head so I'll type it out here before I forget:
Take that exact same model and make it a little big larger in size -
Take that drip emitter and attach it to a 5-10 gallon bucket sitting above ground next to your plant. The gravity will feed the water down into the soil bordering your root ball and the pvc line up into the bucket allows your res to be as big as you please!
The reason I thought of making this design larger is to increase times between visiting to refill reservoirs. That, and the more water that's available to your plants the bigger they're allowed to grow. It goes very hand-in-hand. If I were to take this method on I would buy some camo tarps and cut them up to wrap my reservoir in, since water reflects light. I would also cover the top of the bucket in screen and secure it snugly with wire to prevent thirsty critters from tapping into the buckets.
I'd be curious to hear anyone else's ideas for a Gorilla Water Collar...
Was thinking of you today silverback, this is the first place I ever heard of the water collar and whatever similar inventions. This guy was growing tomato plants around a 5 gallon bucket filled with water with small holes in the bottom, buried in the dirt of the middle plants, different method same effect.
RIP Sir, much respect
RIP Sir, much respect
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