hehe you're welcome -VT-
These are some v.nice plants to grow. Cant wait for my first toke of outdoors RC
These are some v.nice plants to grow. Cant wait for my first toke of outdoors RC
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The Coco-Coir Experiment Thread
- Thread starter -VT-
- Start date
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Guest
VT is it possible for you to measure the circumference of the stems? Or weigh the root mass when the plants are finished?
If no preparation was made to avoid root spiraling, the water everyday plant is of course going to be taller. The bigger the tap root the more spindly the plant is going to be... not necessarily a good thing. I have only seen two people on this forum mention anything about eliminating the tap root after their cuttings rooted..
By watering as needed, you pretty much accomplished the root pruning process. As you can see, the water as need plant does not have the spiraling roots like the other. But... after a healthy and robust root system had been established watering everyday should have been mandatory.
http://www.landscapeonline.com/research/article/4928
http://www.rootmaker.com/whatsnew.php
Dude.. you fried your poor roots. Don't blame it on the coco.. The idea of putting an airstone in your coco is the equivalent of someone dropping a gallon of soil in their DWC thinking it will help...
But....... you did spark an idea in my head...how about using the airstone in a shallow bed of water kind of like a bubble cloner, but with a nice big pot of coco on top? Pretty much a set it and forget it type setup. No timers or feed lines, just enough bubble poppage to keep the coco moist all day damn.. that might just work pretty well with mothers 
If no preparation was made to avoid root spiraling, the water everyday plant is of course going to be taller. The bigger the tap root the more spindly the plant is going to be... not necessarily a good thing. I have only seen two people on this forum mention anything about eliminating the tap root after their cuttings rooted..
By watering as needed, you pretty much accomplished the root pruning process. As you can see, the water as need plant does not have the spiraling roots like the other. But... after a healthy and robust root system had been established watering everyday should have been mandatory.
http://www.landscapeonline.com/research/article/4928
http://www.rootmaker.com/whatsnew.php
Dude.. you fried your poor roots. Don't blame it on the coco.. The idea of putting an airstone in your coco is the equivalent of someone dropping a gallon of soil in their DWC thinking it will help...
But....... you did spark an idea in my head...how about using the airstone in a shallow bed of water kind of like a bubble cloner, but with a nice big pot of coco on top? Pretty much a set it and forget it type setup. No timers or feed lines, just enough bubble poppage to keep the coco moist all day
damn.. that might just work pretty well with mothers
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G
Guest
Oh.. I am officially done with the "water as needed" argument. After visiting a hydroponic vegetable farm, I realized the answer was in front of me the entire time... like the .pdf I sent you VT, it should have been "feed as needed", the medium has to stay moist no matter what. Like I said, when dialed in, this will eliminate the need for runoff and recirculating the nutrient solution. Less money, less water, bigger crops.
Here is a summary of the principles behind this practice..
http://www.ipipotash.org/udocs/Fine Tuning of Fertigation and Irrigation.pdf
Almost forgot, they were experimenting with this medium called "Tuff" mixed with the coco (granulated volcanic ash). The tuff would aid in aeration and nutrient accumaalation (especially P, Ca, and Mg) which translates into less of a need for ferts with the right fertigation schedules. The Israels sure stay on top of the hydro game...
Here is a summary of the principles behind this practice..
http://www.ipipotash.org/udocs/Fine Tuning of Fertigation and Irrigation.pdf
Almost forgot, they were experimenting with this medium called "Tuff" mixed with the coco (granulated volcanic ash). The tuff would aid in aeration and nutrient accumaalation (especially P, Ca, and Mg) which translates into less of a need for ferts with the right fertigation schedules. The Israels sure stay on top of the hydro game...
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Wait---where did you hear of someone dropping a gallon of soil in DWC??? I've never heard of that one--got a link??? Pics??? If not, I'll assume you're just being silly.
Ok, I can weigh the roots dry (decided to leave them both in 1 gal bags btw)
I still need to research this stuff, and read it a bit
Both of the plants were "watered as needed" early on, you just didn't get pics of that...but the next round features two sets that are all "as needed", and will be another 50 days or so--I am surmising they both had similar root structures in the rudimentary phase of this side by side, but didn't bother to look or snap shots. So why would they both have not--as you say--"self pruned"??? I need to read more on this.
Funny you mention the aeration, that's the same argument I made when I touted perlite
Not sure if I am buying an aeration superiority claim
Basically this sounds like a capillary approach (which I tried in my growshow with that TW bush (but now hitting her daily, of course)--the bottom feed crowd takes this approach via the absorption route. But, sure, one can take this approach topfeeding as well. Very interesting--all of these options.
I'll bet the most effective method probably is a method that is a lil' of both worlds (hydro/soil)
I'd love to hear what (SilverSurfer_OG thinks about the Tuff mix (as it holds and binds nutrient), as he has documented coco amended with charcoal. I know he waters daily, but does not fertigate daily. (Suby has done similar stuff)
This is a different aspect, amending coco with something that holds/releases nutrient. Most coco growers may not use the Tuff mix, or charcoal--just think that should be noted. If I were, I'd buy the fertigation scheduling position you seem to espouse/practice(?) (I have no idea how, or what you actually do with coco and MJ) I thought you recirculated based on your post history. Have you tried this approach?
I'd love to see similar research without the Tuff mix...just straight coco. Many coco growers grow in 100% coir. In fact, sometimes I think folks use other mediums amended with a little coco, lol
Ok, I can weigh the roots dry (decided to leave them both in 1 gal bags btw)
I still need to research this stuff, and read it a bit
Both of the plants were "watered as needed" early on, you just didn't get pics of that...but the next round features two sets that are all "as needed", and will be another 50 days or so--I am surmising they both had similar root structures in the rudimentary phase of this side by side, but didn't bother to look or snap shots. So why would they both have not--as you say--"self pruned"??? I need to read more on this.
Funny you mention the aeration, that's the same argument I made when I touted perlite
Not sure if I am buying an aeration superiority claimBasically this sounds like a capillary approach (which I tried in my growshow with that TW bush (but now hitting her daily, of course)--the bottom feed crowd takes this approach via the absorption route. But, sure, one can take this approach topfeeding as well. Very interesting--all of these options.
I'll bet the most effective method probably is a method that is a lil' of both worlds (hydro/soil)
I'd love to hear what (SilverSurfer_OG thinks about the Tuff mix (as it holds and binds nutrient), as he has documented coco amended with charcoal. I know he waters daily, but does not fertigate daily. (Suby has done similar stuff)
This is a different aspect, amending coco with something that holds/releases nutrient. Most coco growers may not use the Tuff mix, or charcoal--just think that should be noted. If I were, I'd buy the fertigation scheduling position you seem to espouse/practice(?) (I have no idea how, or what you actually do with coco and MJ) I thought you recirculated based on your post history. Have you tried this approach?
I'd love to see similar research without the Tuff mix...just straight coco. Many coco growers grow in 100% coir. In fact, sometimes I think folks use other mediums amended with a little coco, lol
Oh--and I don't think it's cool bangin' on folks trying to be a part of this thread--where's your shit??? I could see if you were putting something on the line in here--and even then it would be uncool to launch an unprovoked attack on someone like that--a member sharing pics and willing to be vulnerable for the benefit of the community!!. Shit like that may discourage others from bothering to share and participate.
I'm glad PGW participated with personal experience. I asked(nicely at the onset) to please limit your comments to personal experience (hoping to eliminate trolling)
Good Job PGW!!
I'm glad PGW participated with personal experience. I asked(nicely at the onset) to please limit your comments to personal experience (hoping to eliminate trolling)
Even a failure makes the thread informative--and if you're too arrogant to understand that, I'm sorry.
Good Job PGW!!
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That's it, I've had enough of your poser bullshit, Indica Sativa.
You're a pure theoretical grower, somewhere along the lines of sproutco but with a much bigger ego and much more self-centered. There are people here who contribute with actual useful information, such as -VT-, PGW, and many others... but you have never been one of them. All you seem to do is follow current trends, fads, hypes, and popular topics, and do research on them to prove to others how much more you know about it than them and how wrong they are, without having grown a single cannabis plant yourself.
Am I wrong? If so, show up your grow. If not, STFU and take your troll ass elsewhere because your posing isn't welcome here by myself and many others.
SHOW UP OR SHUT UP!!
You're a pure theoretical grower, somewhere along the lines of sproutco but with a much bigger ego and much more self-centered. There are people here who contribute with actual useful information, such as -VT-, PGW, and many others... but you have never been one of them. All you seem to do is follow current trends, fads, hypes, and popular topics, and do research on them to prove to others how much more you know about it than them and how wrong they are, without having grown a single cannabis plant yourself.
Am I wrong? If so, show up your grow. If not, STFU and take your troll ass elsewhere because your posing isn't welcome here by myself and many others.
SHOW UP OR SHUT UP!!
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And if the idea is to disrupt threads on purpose--well, only LEO (feds) would have a motive like that.-VT- said:
Psychological warfare...
They're (posers) in my other thread also...bunch of lip service about all these strains they claim to have and grow
-- with no pics. Claiming nute sensitive plants are nute hogs, lolI've had it too, clowntown....this, is my last post in the Canna Coco forum.
Anybody wanna check on me--look for my new show in Chimeras forum
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High guys 
Not sure about that Tuff stuff... sounds similar to Azomite though
except Azomite is very soluble... yeah i highly recommend charcoal... it is supposed to get better with each grow as the charcoal becomes a microbe sponge.
Not sure about the watering schedule. I have been putting an inch or so of perlite on the bottom of my pots and allowing them to suck up the runoff that collects on the bottom of secondary container... that way when its hot weather my relatively small pots (10 litre) stayed hydrated. This was necessary for the coco as it dried out real fast. The charcoal also helps keep the coco moist.
Have to say though the growth rate was fairly even between my 3 mediums...
Indoors my preferred choice is still LC's Soiless #1 with added charcoal (10-30%) and Azomite.
Not sure about that Tuff stuff... sounds similar to Azomite though
except Azomite is very soluble... yeah i highly recommend charcoal... it is supposed to get better with each grow as the charcoal becomes a microbe sponge.Not sure about the watering schedule. I have been putting an inch or so of perlite on the bottom of my pots and allowing them to suck up the runoff that collects on the bottom of secondary container... that way when its hot weather my relatively small pots (10 litre) stayed hydrated. This was necessary for the coco as it dried out real fast. The charcoal also helps keep the coco moist.
Have to say though the growth rate was fairly even between my 3 mediums...
Indoors my preferred choice is still LC's Soiless #1 with added charcoal (10-30%) and Azomite.
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Guest
It is silly.. that is the whole point.. Just as silly as putting an airstone in coco..
Clowntown, grow up and stick the tampon back in your twat. It has been many, many years and the cannabis community is still stuck in this endless loop of feeding off the same rhetoric, over and over and over while we watch all these new techniques pass us by... and we still have the problem of egotistic assholes like yourself to top it all off.
God forbid I relate information from other sources and personal experience, in the EXPERIMENT thread of all places. God forbid I was actually able to grow up around the horticulture business. God forbid somebody might actually know more than you do! Why do I need to post pics on a public gallery? I go to prison for having a few plants, posting pictures, again on a public gallery makes me feel safe how?
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Guest
Grow up?
Seems like every couple of months you're onto a new trend, new fad, new "style", and all the sudden you're the authoritative expert on that topic, a topic you've never previously discussed. All the sudden you're convinced this new product, style, trend, whatever, is THE ONE and THE HOLY GRAIL and NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.
You do decent research, but you're extremely cocky towards people who actually grow cannabis. Maybe you should actually try yourself for once and see how things work out in real life, rather than in pure theory.
I'll just go ahead and repeat myself once more:
SHOW UP OR SHUT UP!!
You do decent research, but you're extremely cocky towards people who actually grow cannabis. Maybe you should actually try yourself for once and see how things work out in real life, rather than in pure theory.
I'll just go ahead and repeat myself once more:
SHOW UP OR SHUT UP!!
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Guest
Keep making yourself look like a moron...
lets see what my fads have been... use coco, use better coco, use better nutrients, use a better watering style, use an easier watering style, create a more efficient watering style, and now back to the basics of having a better root system to take advantage of it all..
Yup, look at me! My techniques are so elite and crazy! My GOD no one has ever done that before! I already tried PM you, and yet you still want to screw this thread up for everyone else in the world who wants to enjoy it. Good Job. And get off your high horse for christ sake, we grow a weed here.. a weed... google that word. It doesn't take much skill at all to do what we do. Considering you are not a breeder, you have no bragging rights at all. Last time I checked, no one in the coco section is better than anyone else. Some might have better genetics, but thats pretty much the only thing that separates us all.
lets see what my fads have been... use coco, use better coco, use better nutrients, use a better watering style, use an easier watering style, create a more efficient watering style, and now back to the basics of having a better root system to take advantage of it all..
Yup, look at me! My techniques are so elite and crazy! My GOD no one has ever done that before! I already tried PM you, and yet you still want to screw this thread up for everyone else in the world who wants to enjoy it. Good Job. And get off your high horse for christ sake, we grow a weed here.. a weed... google that word. It doesn't take much skill at all to do what we do. Considering you are not a breeder, you have no bragging rights at all. Last time I checked, no one in the coco section is better than anyone else. Some might have better genetics, but thats pretty much the only thing that separates us all.
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PGW
Member
Thanks for the words of support -VT- and clowntown!
Indica Sativa...I have no hate for you. But just remember, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Do you know how ridiculous it sounded in the early to mid 1800's that folks could talk to one another over a phone wire? Or how about pipes that one uses to have running water coming INTO the house? Light bulbs?........etc...again, I'm not angry, or hating on you Indica Sativa, just trying to show why I think all experiments are valid until proven otherwise by documented repeatable results, that's all.
And for everyone else....I did not "fry" my roots. It was, in fact, an inadequate flush and here are some pics to prove that the plant is finally back on track:
Indica Sativa...I have no hate for you. But just remember, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Do you know how ridiculous it sounded in the early to mid 1800's that folks could talk to one another over a phone wire? Or how about pipes that one uses to have running water coming INTO the house? Light bulbs?........etc...again, I'm not angry, or hating on you Indica Sativa, just trying to show why I think all experiments are valid until proven otherwise by documented repeatable results, that's all.
And for everyone else....I did not "fry" my roots. It was, in fact, an inadequate flush and here are some pics to prove that the plant is finally back on track:
PGW
Member
The above pics are in relevant order of time taken over the course of April. The latest then, obviously, is the last one shown with the Earth Juice bottle. She is almost two months old in that pic from seed.
Also, when the lights come back on tonight, I'm putting the airstones back in since she is now near perfect health. Unfortunately, I have no more "control plants" since they were all male. This was my only girl out of the EPK seeds that I received.
So anyone who wants to, can tell me what a waste of time this is, but ya know what, I'm growing the plant anyway. With or without airstones. So I still don't see the harm.
I'll try to get back on here after the lights come on. I'll take some pics then, and try to get them posted so y'all can see how she looks as of right now, with the airstones in place, then judge the effectiveness/ineffectiveness at a later point in time.
Well, I tried to lift her out of that pot she's in (it's 19 gallons) but she didn't want to have anything to do with it. I'll have to try again when the ole lady gets home later. Maybe with her help, I can get the plant out and back in the pot with the airstones, without breaking any limbs off....we'll see.
Also, when the lights come back on tonight, I'm putting the airstones back in since she is now near perfect health. Unfortunately, I have no more "control plants" since they were all male. This was my only girl out of the EPK seeds that I received.
So anyone who wants to, can tell me what a waste of time this is, but ya know what, I'm growing the plant anyway. With or without airstones. So I still don't see the harm.
I'll try to get back on here after the lights come on. I'll take some pics then, and try to get them posted so y'all can see how she looks as of right now, with the airstones in place, then judge the effectiveness/ineffectiveness at a later point in time.
Well, I tried to lift her out of that pot she's in (it's 19 gallons) but she didn't want to have anything to do with it. I'll have to try again when the ole lady gets home later. Maybe with her help, I can get the plant out and back in the pot with the airstones, without breaking any limbs off....we'll see.
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Guest
Again... dry air kills roots. Dry air added to an already superb porous mixture will kill them faster.. I can't help it if people here don't have enough common sense to tell you otherwise.
Just because other folks here get their jollies off watching you waste your time, does not mean I do.
Just because other folks here get their jollies off watching you waste your time, does not mean I do.
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Guest
Indica Sativa said:
Then why do you keep trolling this thread? -VT- is one of the folks that I listened to and exchanged information with and learned from about 2 years ago when I jumped into coco. Notice everything he learned he learned by actual hands on experience. Not by visiting a website and copy and pasting links. You know nothing of coco. NOTHING. You don't even grow. Gotta be able to post a pic of a healthy plant once in awhile to get folks to listen to ya sproutco.
Hey MODS/ADMIN....how long ya gonna let the turd there float in the punchbowl?
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Guest
Notice to all who know how to exercise Due Diligence:
According to Clownboy
, all information regarding the "growing of plants" can only be found on this site. LMAO 
Good Job kid. Your as smart as they come.
According to Clownboy
, all information regarding the "growing of plants" can only be found on this site. LMAO Good Job kid. Your as smart as they come.
G
Guest
here's a link to smart pots and air pruning. Smart pots are probably the best thing to happen to coco since the coconut fell off the tree. It also explains air pruning roots, so maybe you can wrap that goober sized brain of yours around it kid.
http://www.treebag.com/html/smart_pot.html
http://www.treebag.com/html/smart_pot.html
