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The Coco-Coir Experiment Thread
- Thread starter -VT-
- Start date
Yea, I am still working on the "Sweet or Molasses?" thing...
In the past...I never bloomed in coco with Cal/Mag+.....in fact I never ran Cal/Mag+ in bloom in my PBP DWC days....I always substituted Sweet
The key to avoiding the "berry smell" with Sweet is lower dosage...not the 20 ml/gal they suggest...last run I maxed out at 10 ml/gal and did not get the overpowering "berry smell"
I use Blackstrap Molasses in bloom for final phase at 1 tbsp/gal....during a recent run that I documented....I ran into Cal/Mag deficiencies (especially Mg) @ 1 tsp/gal...I tried adding esalts to the molasses and made it worse....then fucked up the pH...lol....
I'm finishing a C13 that I'm dosing 1 tbsp/gal of molasses....I'll be posting some final phase shots in a few days....the smell is unbelievable....
Seems difficult to quantify the elements in molasses...so many brands, etc....I'm gonna use Sweet in transition up until final phase...then switch to molasses (which is the approach I am currently trying)
In the past...I never bloomed in coco with Cal/Mag+.....in fact I never ran Cal/Mag+ in bloom in my PBP DWC days....I always substituted Sweet
The key to avoiding the "berry smell" with Sweet is lower dosage...not the 20 ml/gal they suggest...last run I maxed out at 10 ml/gal and did not get the overpowering "berry smell"
I use Blackstrap Molasses in bloom for final phase at 1 tbsp/gal....during a recent run that I documented....I ran into Cal/Mag deficiencies (especially Mg) @ 1 tsp/gal...I tried adding esalts to the molasses and made it worse....then fucked up the pH...lol....
I'm finishing a C13 that I'm dosing 1 tbsp/gal of molasses....I'll be posting some final phase shots in a few days....the smell is unbelievable....
Seems difficult to quantify the elements in molasses...so many brands, etc....I'm gonna use Sweet in transition up until final phase...then switch to molasses (which is the approach I am currently trying)
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Here's another one... I bought a bag (1.5cuft) of Botanicare's ReadyGro, Moisture Formula. I wanted to do a side-by-side comparison against Canna Coco. The ReadyGro costs a buck less. For those of you unfamiliar with the product, it's coco with some amendments:
So far I'm not liking it, but it most likely has to do more with me being unfamiliar with it than anything else. I'd like to continue the trial, but it seems like I'm paying for a lot of perlite. Even the "Moisture Formula" contains a ton of perlite; it's the first ingredient listed on the bag.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I'm not sure this counts as an 'experiment thread' topic, though.
So far I'm not liking it, but it most likely has to do more with me being unfamiliar with it than anything else. I'd like to continue the trial, but it seems like I'm paying for a lot of perlite. Even the "Moisture Formula" contains a ton of perlite; it's the first ingredient listed on the bag.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I'm not sure this counts as an 'experiment thread' topic, though.
PGW
Member
Yeah clowntown, I would much rather be runnin pure coco, but the hydro store was out of it. So now the Bot. Ready-Gro is what I have. It seems to be doing alright.
In direct response to the post above, all the extra "stuff" is the reason the price is so close to the price of pure coco IME.....?
As for any more conclusive proof of growth rates, I can't give any. I no longer have any of the strains that I had ran in pure coco. So no direct comparison is possible in my garden.
In direct response to the post above, all the extra "stuff" is the reason the price is so close to the price of pure coco IME.....?
As for any more conclusive proof of growth rates, I can't give any. I no longer have any of the strains that I had ran in pure coco. So no direct comparison is possible in my garden.
Ok good news, kinda. I came up with enough Botanicare ReadyGro (Moisture) to pot up a few plants entirely in that medium, minus the 4" starting pots of pure Canna they got.
I got about a dozen Western Winds, from clone, that have been topped. I think 3 or 4 are in an all-ReadyGro mix, the rest being all-Canna (no coco) mix. Due to various random factors during a hectic veg period, I'm going to disregard what happens to them in veg, and compare them only during flower. Meaning at the time of flower, I will pick out and mark the "side by side" pairs for comparison. After they are chosen, I'll ensure they get fair positioning on the table, for equal light / wind coverage.
I added some additional mycorrhizzae/trichoderma to every pot. All plants have been topped, except for two. One is not topped and non-supercropped. One was supercropped, and later (very recently) also LST'd. They were all rooted in coco, went into 4" pots, followed by 3qt, followed by 2gal pots.
I'm going to flip to 12/12 any day now, starting with about a dozen Western Winds that I'm likely going to need to cut back on, as I run out of space.
Pictures coming soon. Camera is in the works. Right now I have a feeling Canna is gonna win easily.
Bad news is that these babies take 11-ish weeks (might let 'em go 12 this time around), so we aren't gonna be seeing any real results anytime soon.
I got about a dozen Western Winds, from clone, that have been topped. I think 3 or 4 are in an all-ReadyGro mix, the rest being all-Canna (no coco) mix. Due to various random factors during a hectic veg period, I'm going to disregard what happens to them in veg, and compare them only during flower. Meaning at the time of flower, I will pick out and mark the "side by side" pairs for comparison. After they are chosen, I'll ensure they get fair positioning on the table, for equal light / wind coverage.
I added some additional mycorrhizzae/trichoderma to every pot. All plants have been topped, except for two. One is not topped and non-supercropped. One was supercropped, and later (very recently) also LST'd. They were all rooted in coco, went into 4" pots, followed by 3qt, followed by 2gal pots.
I'm going to flip to 12/12 any day now, starting with about a dozen Western Winds that I'm likely going to need to cut back on, as I run out of space.
Pictures coming soon. Camera is in the works. Right now I have a feeling Canna is gonna win easily.
Bad news is that these babies take 11-ish weeks (might let 'em go 12 this time around), so we aren't gonna be seeing any real results anytime soon.
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Ok so lights went out for the first time today. 
I found 3 good pairs of similar sized and shaped plants, 3 in ReadyGro and 3 in Canna. They will serve as the side-by-side comparison.
So far the ReadyGro plants are requiring a stronger nute mix than the Canna plants; perlite is playing a significant role in the nutrient exchange ratio?
Another side-by-side that I'll have going, although not coco-specific, is with Advanced Nutrients' Bud Blood. I'm adding it to two of the smallest plants, at a rate of +150ppm (AN recommends a dose of ~200ppm). In hindsight I'm afraid even 150ppm might have been too much. We'll see soon I guess.
Right now I have 16 x 2 gallon square pots under a 600w MH. The roll call is as follows (pictures coming soon, I promise):
I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to cull a few plants, and maybe end up with something like 9 - 12 plants in the end...
I plan on running the MH 'til the end of week 3, then the HPS goes in.
I found 3 good pairs of similar sized and shaped plants, 3 in ReadyGro and 3 in Canna. They will serve as the side-by-side comparison.
So far the ReadyGro plants are requiring a stronger nute mix than the Canna plants; perlite is playing a significant role in the nutrient exchange ratio?
Another side-by-side that I'll have going, although not coco-specific, is with Advanced Nutrients' Bud Blood. I'm adding it to two of the smallest plants, at a rate of +150ppm (AN recommends a dose of ~200ppm). In hindsight I'm afraid even 150ppm might have been too much. We'll see soon I guess.
Right now I have 16 x 2 gallon square pots under a 600w MH. The roll call is as follows (pictures coming soon, I promise):
- 1 Abusive OG Kush in 1 pot; LST'd and topped (from taking cuts)
- 3 AOGK's in 1 pot; very recently rooted and untopped, untrained. Maybe 3" tall
- 1 Amnesia 99; topped / pruned from being a Bonsai mom for a few months
- 13 Western Winds in various formats. More details later
I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to cull a few plants, and maybe end up with something like 9 - 12 plants in the end...
I plan on running the MH 'til the end of week 3, then the HPS goes in.
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RealSupreme
Member
great thread! im learning all th time!
peace mate.
1
peace mate.
1
B
berryhill
T/Y
T/Y
Thanks big time for a great thread VT. Been in a soiless mix, (ProMix BX), peat, for the entire journey of 5 years now. Definitely swithcing to coco asap!
However, I'm enterested in continuing useing my beds. Can I use coco to backfill 4' x 12' beds for SOGing? If so....my beds are 13" deep, but typicaly I have run em with 10" to 11" of media. What would be the optimal depth of coco? These are sealed grow spaces supplemented with CO2 and 3k of lighting. Never useing coco b4, would you recommend Canna coco and there nutrients? Online suppliers? I do have a couple gallons of PBP/ Soil and Hydro Formula Bloom nutes, Liquid Karma, Cal/Mag+ and a truck load of AN additives lol. Thank you so much for your time and the all the great helpful info this thread has!
T/Y
Thanks big time for a great thread VT. Been in a soiless mix, (ProMix BX), peat, for the entire journey of 5 years now. Definitely swithcing to coco asap!
However, I'm enterested in continuing useing my beds. Can I use coco to backfill 4' x 12' beds for SOGing? If so....my beds are 13" deep, but typicaly I have run em with 10" to 11" of media. What would be the optimal depth of coco? These are sealed grow spaces supplemented with CO2 and 3k of lighting. Never useing coco b4, would you recommend Canna coco and there nutrients? Online suppliers? I do have a couple gallons of PBP/ Soil and Hydro Formula Bloom nutes, Liquid Karma, Cal/Mag+ and a truck load of AN additives lol. Thank you so much for your time and the all the great helpful info this thread has!
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I would have had some pictures for you (of my grow setup) tonight, but I just realized that my computer doesn't have a serial port! I found my old (1MP!) digital camera, and has only a serial connector. So the pictures will have to wait 'til tomorrow, since my work computer has a card reader.
I'll introduce you to my sativa SOG in coco, with drippers.
I'll introduce you to my sativa SOG in coco, with drippers.
I am experimenting with charcoal in coco. This is part of a larger experiment trying to replicate the amazing Terra Preta used by ancient Amazonian civilisation.
Results so far positive. The charcoal acts like perlite. It is a microbial 'reef' supporting millions of benificial micro-organisms...
Results so far positive. The charcoal acts like perlite. It is a microbial 'reef' supporting millions of benificial micro-organisms...
This is what I'm working with. I also have a second flowering room being set up right now for the babies. Here are the Orange Diesel (5), Chemdog Double D (4), and Apollo Mist (2) babies from seed getting ready for that other room:
And the Bogglegum gifted from a very kind member here, which I'm mothering:
And some Abusive OG, Amnesia 99, Bogglegum and Deep Chunk rooting:
Some drying from my most recent perpetual chop:
And the flower room, about 3-4 days in:
Topped:
LST'd:
Muffler. I usually keep some random shit wrapped around it. I don't think it's helping any.
Nutes & random fittings:
This is how I have the fan mounted:
And the Bogglegum gifted from a very kind member here, which I'm mothering:
And some Abusive OG, Amnesia 99, Bogglegum and Deep Chunk rooting:
Some drying from my most recent perpetual chop:
And the flower room, about 3-4 days in:
Topped:
LST'd:
Muffler. I usually keep some random shit wrapped around it. I don't think it's helping any.
Nutes & random fittings:
This is how I have the fan mounted:
ThaiPhoon
Active member
Hey Silver Surfer...I am glad to see you are trying more coco/charcoal experiments. I once tried a 50/50 mix. I had poor success. I was very new at the time. I think that as long as the charcoal has been impregnated with some kind of organic goodness and the coco has been properly cleaned and soaked up some nice nutrient tea or something similar it should work great. Now that I have learned a few things, I will try to do a 50/50 mix again. I read a study done at a Thai University that has done an experiment with a 50/50 mix compared to pure coco and some other mixes. They found that the most productive tomatoes grew in the 50/50 mix. I can not remember what type of nutrients they were using.
Good Luck
Good Luck
Wowo0P@!! 50/50! Thats a lot.
I am still at the early learning stage with tomatoes!
What little the possums have left me with...
I am still at the early learning stage with tomatoes!
What little the possums have left me with...
Props to each and all for making this thread a good read....
PGW
Member
PGW said:
Well, tomorrow I will place a small airstone in one 5 inch pot as a short-term test. I've decided not to rush things. The strain I'm going to run this idea on is Reeferman's Early Purple Kush. I only have four small seedlings in veg, so I don't want to jump to anything too drastic right off the bat (such as a 12 inch airstone). I think it would be smarter to proceed slowly at first.
I'll put in the airstone, take pics with a tape measure for baseline numbers, and run the pump 24/7 while monitoring the look of things several times per day. I expect the ph to climb with this as it usually does when an airstone is kept in a nute reservoir. So, if it looks like ph will become an issue, I'll attempt to adjust the nute mixture a bit lower to compensate so that I might continue the aistone test.
Anything you guys/gals have to add would be appreciated.
PGW
Member
The airstones are in place and pumping. I chose to go with two small stones (1 inch long) instead of one. My logic was, if I only used one, then I would most likey be supplying only one "side" of the root mass with supplimental air. By installing two stones on opposing sides of the root mass, I hope to get an evenly distributed supplementation.
No pics tonight though as my knee is killing me(previously shattered). I will get pics in the A.M. and get them posted.
No pics tonight though as my knee is killing me(previously shattered). I will get pics in the A.M. and get them posted.
