The 2020 Presidential Election

[Mr D]

Social democracy - welfare statism, workplace democracy, still capitalist (Bernie Danders fits here)

Democratic socialism - social dem + conscious anti-capitalist "democratic" move to replace capitalism

Socialism - workers own the means of production, revolution of the proletariat, democratized workplace

Communism - socialism + abolishment of the state, abolishment of private property


Saying a social Democrat is one day going to turn into a communist is about the equivalent of saying most capitalist economies around the world will eventually become fascist.

It does nothing to address humans being easily corruptible.


Being a lifelong union member has taught me that giving even the most well meaning people power results in the same problems in a capitalist system when people gain power.

People have to run and lead whatever system you think is better.

 

[Absolem]

What I don't support is lazy fucks mooching off of hard working people.

Then tell those farmers to work harder so they don't need your socialist money to bail them out. Why do they need the bailout to begin with? Anything the Pres caused?

 

[Bud Green]

Bernie Danders...??

 

['Boogieman']

Neither party has a 2/3 majority currently in the house or senate so whatever your talking about it's probably dead.

 

[Mr D]

I can see some don't understand how our Gov works.. Congress can override a veto via a two-thirds vote with both houses voting separately, after which the bill becomes law. ... The president cannot veto a bill due to inaction; once the bill has been received by the president, the chief executive has thirty days to veto the bill. Even if a bill gets vetoed by POTUS congress can still push it through with two-thirds vote. POTUS doesn't make laws. House/Senate make laws.

Actually the lobbyist make the laws....which is how corporations gained so much power. Remember we have to pass the bill first then we can see what's in it.

 

['Boogieman']

Then tell those farmers to work harder so they don't need your socialist money to bail them out. Why do they need the bailout to begin with? Anything the Pres caused?

In the midwest flooding prevented farmers from planting early enough for a decent crop. If you think farmers don't work hard your a typical city born idiot.

 

[Mr D]

In the midwest flooding prevented farmers from planting early enough for a decent crop. If you think farmers don't work hard your a typical city born idiot.

Is he comparing billions to farmers who feed us with trillions to banks who steal from us?

 

[Zeez]

Suck it, haters.

[URL=https://i.ibb.co/fdhy6f8/IMG-20191217-180208473-1-1.jpg]View Image[/url]

You've got a little tip burn there. Maybe running a little rich.

 

[Absolem]

In the midwest flooding prevented farmers from planting early enough for a decent crop. If you think farmers don't work hard your a typical city born idiot.

I see you don't have the balls to admit Trump's bailout to farmers is socialism. So every time an industry has hardship the Gov should bail them out???? The bailout was for Trump tariffs not flooding.

I bet you think people who have been on welfare don't work hard either? Their hardships don't matter to you.

 

[Absolem]

Is he comparing billions to farmers who feed us with trillions to banks who steal from us?

Wrong again Denzel.

I wasn't making that comparison.

 

[Hammerhead]

Actually the lobbyist make the laws....which is how corporations gained so much power. Remember we have to pass the bill first then we can see what's in it.

My point was it doesn't matter what any POTUS candidate identifies as. If elected they do not make law. If Bernie was to become POTUS how much could he get done with the house and senate against him. IMO this is where the challenge would be. I could see much of what he wants to do unattainable because of Congress.

 

[Mr. J]

You've got a little tip burn there. Maybe running a little rich.

Was my first time running her, will do better next time. The early smoke testing is going well, smokes beautifully and hits like an acid trip.

 

[Zeez]

Democratic socialism is not communism. What ever Trump believe you also believe. Stop believing the crap this guy tells ya.

They've never been to Mexico. That's what this place is going to look like with their people in power. A hand full of "I got all the marbles" rich guys and everyone else eats dirt. No doubt they will be dirt eaters too when the day arrives.

 

['Boogieman']

They've never been to Mexico. That's what this place is going to look like with their people in power. A hand full of "I got all the marbles" rich guys and everyone else eats dirt. No doubt they will be dirt eaters too when the day arrives.

I been to Mexico many times, anybody who sets goals and works hard can be successful here in America period.

 

[Cannavore]

Because money doesn't grow on trees.

you're right. it's typed into a computer and completely made up.

 

[packerfan79]

Hopefully you're trolling because the people who call Bernie a commie in serious context are nearly braindead.

When you honeymoon in the USSR, you're a communist. Or at least a socialist with patience.

 

[Mr. J]

you're right. it's typed into a computer and completely made up.

So just type yourself up some money then if that's how you think it works.

 

[Cannavore]

It does nothing to address humans being easily corruptible.


Being a lifelong union member has taught me that giving even the most well meaning people power results in the same problems in a capitalist system when people gain power.

People have to run and lead whatever system you think is better.

No system does. Nothing is perfect. I think the main point is that we can do better than what we're doing now, and there are a lot of great alternatives coming from the left that are actually well thought out, and for the most part, already implemented in other parts of the west, or were once implemented in this country in the past.

the idea of socialism these days has less to do with state power and centralized power and moreso the idea of democratizing the workplace and de-centralizing power. ie - your boss wants to sell the company and ship all the jobs to mexico or wherever. if the business was owned collectively by all those who work there, chances are they're not going to vote on taking away their own jobs, sources of income, etc.

 

[Cannavore]

When you honeymoon in the USSR, you're a communist. Or at least a socialist with patience.

that was part of a sister city program during the cold war to try and normalize the situation... showing that average americans and average russians for example can get along.




sort of a dumb example but if you're a star trek fan like i am, lol, it's pretty much like the exchange programs the Federation and the Klingons (and other alien species) used to do to help normalize relations with each other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Matter_of_Honor

"In this episode, Commander Riker is assigned to temporarily be first officer aboard a Klingon vessel as part of an officer exchange program."

 

[packerfan79]

You support socialism. Proof? You support Trumps welfare to farmers. Unless you are now against that "bailout". Or like most people you support some bailouts but not others? And the bailouts you don't support that others do you then call them socialists.

You might want to read up on the Ukrainian famine. The results of constant hatred of the people who produce the food, leads to millions of people starving to deaths. People do some pretty sick shit when they're watching their family die of starvation.