THC and relationship to Parkinson's

[Padymcc]

Hi all,
I was diagnosed with prostate CA in 2012 (62yo). No medical intervention after 2nd opinion and in 2013 started RSO (Pheonix Oil from local MMJ dispensary) I've been taking 8 drops per night and have been in remission since 2013. When I go off it, like when traveling, my PSA levels increase which lets me know it is indeed working.
(Now 74yo) Lately I've been experiencing symptoms of Parkinson's - initially trembles right side & now both. Have seen neurologist specializing in movement disorders and have had DaT scan showing dopamine issues. MRI is next and then review with neurologist. His initial examination showed classic signs of Parkinson's and is awaiting my MRI results before going down any rabbit holes.
Today my wife found information on long term THC use which showed very similar issues to Parkinson's. Has anyone else heard or come across this?
I'm hoping there is no correlation and will reduce my nightly THC to 4 drops and will check PSA for any increases.

Thanks in advance for any info.

 

[Creeperpark]

Hi all,
I was diagnosed with prostate CA in 2012 (62yo). No medical intervention after 2nd opinion and in 2013 started RSO (Pheonix Oil from local MMJ dispensary) I've been taking 8 drops per night and have been in remission since 2013. When I go off it, like when traveling, my PSA levels increase which lets me know it is indeed working.
(Now 74yo) Lately I've been experiencing symptoms of Parkinson's - initially trembles right side & now both. Have seen neurologist specializing in movement disorders and have had DaT scan showing dopamine issues. MRI is next and then review with neurologist. His initial examination showed classic signs of Parkinson's and is awaiting my MRI results before going down any rabbit holes.
Today my wife found information on long term THC use which showed very similar issues to Parkinson's. Has anyone else heard or come across this?
I'm hoping there is no correlation and will reduce my nightly THC to 4 drops and will check PSA for any increases.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Very interesting observation friend. Does Parkinson's run in your family?

 

[Padymcc]

No, I’m the first

 

[PlastikeRubba]

If Cannabis isn't fed a continual balanced mineral diet, it will release Manganese oxide-reducing acids through its roots, and hyper-accumulate Manganese in the shoots.

This is why I roll my eyes when weed growers parrot "PH ISSUE PH ISSUE " without even bothering to acknowledge the actual issue: Manganese toxicity.

Mn level of healthy, properly fed Cannabis compared to "water-only living organic recycled no till probio "ph-doesn't-matter" Cannabis.

Cannabis labs don't test for heavy metals. They are too busy telling lies and marketing a bunch of meaningless numbers.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Considering almost nobody uses "THC," because it's all wrapped up with some level of pesticides, organicides, heavy metals and excess nutrients, I'd be cautious of any proclaimed 'results.'

I'd be more concerned with the soil and/or nutes being used for your cannabis, along with the solvents used for the RSO.

Cannabis can pull unhealthy levels of cadmium from "cadmium safe soil," as an example.

Heavy metals, which cannabis is VERY capable of scavenging better than most plants, is rather detrimental to various brain functions.

Heavy Metals Exposure and Alzheimer’s Disease and Related Dementias - PMC

Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias lack effective treatment or cures and are major public health challenges. Risk for Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias is partially attributable to environmental factors. The heavy metals lead, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Creeperpark]

If Cannabis isn't fed a continual balanced mineral diet, it will release Manganese oxide-reducing acids through its roots, and hyper-accumulate Manganese in the shoots.

View attachment 19121864

This is why I roll my eyes when weed growers parrot "PH ISSUE PH ISSUE " without even bothering to acknowledge the actual issue: Manganese toxicity.
View attachment 19121876

Mn level of healthy, properly fed Cannabis compared to "water-only living organic recycled no till probio "ph-doesn't-matter" Cannabis.

Cannabis labs don't test for heavy metals. They are too busy telling lies and marketing a bunch of meaningless numbers.


View attachment 19121885

Thanks for the interesting post friend. You rang my bell loud and clear.

 

[Creeperpark]

Considering almost nobody uses "THC," because it's all wrapped up with some level of pesticides, organicides, heavy metals and excess nutrients, I'd be cautious of any proclaimed 'results.'

I'd be more concerned with the soil and/or nutes being used for your cannabis, along with the solvents used for the RSO.

Cannabis can pull unhealthy levels of cadmium from "cadmium safe soil," as an example.

Heavy metals, which cannabis is VERY capable of scavenging better than most plants, is rather detrimental to various brain functions.

Heavy Metals Exposure and Alzheimer’s Disease and Related Dementias - PMC

Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias lack effective treatment or cures and are major public health challenges. Risk for Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias is partially attributable to environmental factors. The heavy metals lead, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If the heavy metals don't get ya, plastic poisoning will.

 

[Creeperpark]

No, I’m the first

I hope you get better friend, thank you for the post and please keep us updated.

 

[Piff Rhys Jones]

If Cannabis isn't fed a continual balanced mineral diet, it will release Manganese oxide-reducing acids through its roots, and hyper-accumulate Manganese in the shoots.

View attachment 19121864

This is why I roll my eyes when weed growers parrot "PH ISSUE PH ISSUE " without even bothering to acknowledge the actual issue: Manganese toxicity.
View attachment 19121876

Mn level of healthy, properly fed Cannabis compared to "water-only living organic recycled no till probio "ph-doesn't-matter" Cannabis.

Cannabis labs don't test for heavy metals. They are too busy telling lies and marketing a bunch of meaningless numbers.


View attachment 19121885

Would you mind posting a link to the study where this comparative tissue analysis was done? Im very interested in seeing the rest of the results, iron seems to have doubled also! The cropped screenshot doesn’t provide much context unfortunately.

Im sorry to hear of your news @Padymcc

Peace

 

[armedoldhippy]

Heavy metals, which cannabis is VERY capable of scavenging better than most plants, is rather detrimental to various brain functions.

i've read about cannabis being grown for just that purpose, attempting to strip heavy metals in the soil from areas contaminated by industry. i had hoped people wouldn't use cannabis grown there for ingestion in any form.

 

[Frosty Nuggets]

i've read about cannabis being grown for just that purpose, attempting to strip heavy metals in the soil from areas contaminated by industry. i had hoped people wouldn't use cannabis grown there for ingestion in any form.

I scored an ounce about 15 years ago and was told later that they had used a product called liquid lead to make it weigh more and that it contained actual lead, I was not happy.

 

[Bush Dr]

CBD is the most common form of cannabis that is used to treat Parkinson’s disease, it won’t stop it but it will help you, particularly with the viv dreams

 

[Colorize]

Hi all,
I was diagnosed with prostate CA in 2012 (62yo). No medical intervention after 2nd opinion and in 2013 started RSO (Pheonix Oil from local MMJ dispensary) I've been taking 8 drops per night and have been in remission since 2013. When I go off it, like when traveling, my PSA levels increase which lets me know it is indeed working.
(Now 74yo) Lately I've been experiencing symptoms of Parkinson's - initially trembles right side & now both. Have seen neurologist specializing in movement disorders and have had DaT scan showing dopamine issues. MRI is next and then review with neurologist. His initial examination showed classic signs of Parkinson's and is awaiting my MRI results before going down any rabbit holes.
Today my wife found information on long term THC use which showed very similar issues to Parkinson's. Has anyone else heard or come across this?
I'm hoping there is no correlation and will reduce my nightly THC to 4 drops and will check PSA for any increases.

Thanks in advance for any info.

There's an important distinction to make between "experiencing symptoms of Parkinson's" and suffering from Parkinson's disease. The latter involving the death of dopaminergic neurons, being a neurodegenerative disease, and the former being caused by a wide array of reasons and being potentially transient in nature.

Which one it is in your case makes all the difference and if you don't suffer from full-blown Parkinson's disease, then I'm sorry but there is a realistic chance that your long-term cannabis use is contributing to your symptoms*.

Ultimately how exactly cannabis affects dopamine is a complicated topic because cannabis is pharmacologically very complex, but it's fair to say that it's reasonably dopaminergic under ordinary circumstances. The way the body responds if it's persistently supplied with compounds which elevate or activate a certain neurotransmitter, is to produce more of said receptors and to decrease the sensitivity of them responding to activation. That's the development of tolerance in a nutshell.

*heavy metal contamination or not, the same holds true for pure, synthetic THC

Now, what this means is that a long-term heavy consumer of cannabis has a higher amount of dopamine receptor sites than the average person. The way in which this can cause issues is that the brain's and therefore body's homeostasis in regards to dopamine is a question of how many dopamine receptors there are, to how many substances (be it from within or outside of the body) are there to fill those slots. If there are insufficient ligands/agonists to go around for the amount of receptors there are, then it can present in the form of symptoms that are similar to those people with Parkinson's suffer from. Even the natural dopamine isn't enough to supply the demand*, which manifests like significant dopamine antagonism or insufficiency.

*in the absence of extra help from exogenous compounds. The body in a sense comes to rely on them.

It's important that you mentioned that you exclusively consume cannabis at bed time. Because what could possibly be the issue in your case is that your dose wears off during the day, your brain runs out of the dopamine/dopaminergic drugs it requires in its current state and that's why you experience these symptoms.

This theory is easily tested by you, as an experiment, taking a small amount of your oil during the day (just 1 or two drops, not enough to interfere with your functioning) and observing if your symptoms remain unchanged or see some improvement. If they do improve, then that speaks to there being some merit to it.

The symptoms should also be getting more intense the more time passes since your last dose of oil.

Do you consume any caffeine at all? If you do, then you might find yourself subconsciously consuming more of it during the day and it mildly improving your symptoms (due to some dopaminergic activity caffeine has*).

*which also means that consuming both THC and caffeine often and in large quantities further increases the dopamine receptors there are and dopamine requirements than if it was only one or the other.

If you don't, then that's a dopamine button to push that could provide some relief during the day without relying on the THC. Heavy coffee consumption (especially in combination with tobacco, consumption of which would also make things worse with THC as far as dopamine goes) is suspected to have the potential to cause tremors due to the high Harmane content in coffee (and tobacco). Which is more of an GABA-issue, but something worthy of consideration should it apply at all. The devil's really in the details.

It could be as simple as that. You needing more dopamine to keep things balanced as soon as the lingering effects of your nightly dose wear off. If that's the case then it's not necessary to completely stop consuming cannabis if you genuinely need it. But you do need to keep in mind that there's only two main ways to get out of this situation. It's either throwing less dopaminergic drugs at your brain until brain function gets closer to normalizing (this takes a few weeks), or supplying more during the day to keep you functional and at ease.

The easy option isn't always the best one though and just taking more drugs obviously has its cost and dangers. My advice to you would be to do some mild experimentation. To try a drop or two during the day and see if it helps, try slightly reducing your nightly dose for a longer period of time and decide what's next.

Whatever you do, even if I turn out to have made sense through your own observations, make absolutely sure that you don't have full-blown Parkinson's disease brewing. The THC potentially making things worse and you developing Parkinson's disease are not in fact mutually exclusive*, please be diligent.

*Cannabis providing relief if you have Parkinson's isn't either, but it's complicated. Real Sativas/euphoric strains can bring some dopamine to the table and serve as a band-aid, but couchlock/low motivation is dopamine-dependent too, which would be the last thing you'd want with Parkinson's. It really depends.

If you do have Parkinson's disease, then my sincerest condolences. If that's the case then it's wise to ask yourself what might've gotten you to this place, making concerns like heavy metal exposure like others have brought up, other environmental concerns as well as diet (primarily inflammation) very important.

If you have Parkinson's you may want to look into sacred lotus (Nelumbo nucifera). It's complicated, but it has both agonistic and antagonistic activity at the dopamine receptors. The agonistic activity helps to substitute for dopamine that isn't there and leads to more receptor sites being constructed, while the antagonists just sit in the receptor without doing anything. Minimizing the drugginess to some extent while heightening the impact of receptor activation at other sites because it shifts the ratio of receptors available to agonists available. It also elevates NGF (nerve growth factor) levels which causes neurogenesis, helping with the replacement of the dead neurons. Lion's Mane mushrooms* boost NGF levels as well.

*avoid any mushrooms sourced from China due to common heavy metal contamination.

I hope this helps and best of luck to you. May you be healthy and at ease.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Daaaaaaaaaamn that was good. Ty so much!

 

[Drippy Sally]

Hi all,
I was diagnosed with prostate CA in 2012 (62yo). No medical intervention after 2nd opinion and in 2013 started RSO (Pheonix Oil from local MMJ dispensary) I've been taking 8 drops per night and have been in remission since 2013. When I go off it, like when traveling, my PSA levels increase which lets me know it is indeed working.
(Now 74yo) Lately I've been experiencing symptoms of Parkinson's - initially trembles right side & now both. Have seen neurologist specializing in movement disorders and have had DaT scan showing dopamine issues. MRI is next and then review with neurologist. His initial examination showed classic signs of Parkinson's and is awaiting my MRI results before going down any rabbit holes.
Today my wife found information on long term THC use which showed very similar issues to Parkinson's. Has anyone else heard or come across this?
I'm hoping there is no correlation and will reduce my nightly THC to 4 drops and will check PSA for any increases.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Let's see the information that your wife found. Without that specific information nobody here can genuinely assist you. It's just empty words until science or something equally compelling. But science will get you nowhere if there is no study or white paper, then it is just bro science. I want to help so please post this important piece of missing information that SHOULD have been available in the initial post due to it's importance in the discussion.

 

[Drippy Sally]

There's an important distinction to make between "experiencing symptoms of Parkinson's" and suffering from Parkinson's disease. The latter involving the death of dopaminergic neurons, being a neurodegenerative disease, and the former being caused by a wide array of reasons and being potentially transient in nature.

Which one it is in your case makes all the difference and if you don't suffer from full-blown Parkinson's disease, then I'm sorry but there is a realistic chance that your long-term cannabis use is contributing to your symptoms*.

Ultimately how exactly cannabis affects dopamine is a complicated topic because cannabis is pharmacologically very complex, but it's fair to say that it's reasonably dopaminergic under ordinary circumstances. The way the body responds if it's persistently supplied with compounds which elevate or activate a certain neurotransmitter, is to produce more of said receptors and to decrease the sensitivity of them responding to activation. That's the development of tolerance in a nutshell.

*heavy metal contamination or not, the same holds true for pure, synthetic THC

Now, what this means is that a long-term heavy consumer of cannabis has a higher amount of dopamine receptor sites than the average person. The way in which this can cause issues is that the brain's and therefore body's homeostasis in regards to dopamine is a question of how many dopamine receptors there are, to how many substances (be it from within or outside of the body) are there to fill those slots. If there are insufficient ligands/agonists to go around for the amount of receptors there are, then it can present in the form of symptoms that are similar to those people with Parkinson's suffer from. Even the natural dopamine isn't enough to supply the demand*, which manifests like significant dopamine antagonism or insufficiency.

*in the absence of extra help from exogenous compounds. The body in a sense comes to rely on them.

It's important that you mentioned that you exclusively consume cannabis at bed time. Because what could possibly be the issue in your case is that your dose wears off during the day, your brain runs out of the dopamine/dopaminergic drugs it requires in its current state and that's why you experience these symptoms.

This theory is easily tested by you, as an experiment, taking a small amount of your oil during the day (just 1 or two drops, not enough to interfere with your functioning) and observing if your symptoms remain unchanged or see some improvement. If they do improve, then that speaks to there being some merit to it.

The symptoms should also be getting more intense the more time passes since your last dose of oil.

Do you consume any caffeine at all? If you do, then you might find yourself subconsciously consuming more of it during the day and it mildly improving your symptoms (due to some dopaminergic activity caffeine has*).

*which also means that consuming both THC and caffeine often and in large quantities further increases the dopamine receptors there are and dopamine requirements than if it was only one or the other.

If you don't, then that's a dopamine button to push that could provide some relief during the day without relying on the THC. Heavy coffee consumption (especially in combination with tobacco, consumption of which would also make things worse with THC as far as dopamine goes) is suspected to have the potential to cause tremors due to the high Harmane content in coffee (and tobacco). Which is more of an GABA-issue, but something worthy of consideration should it apply at all. The devil's really in the details.

It could be as simple as that. You needing more dopamine to keep things balanced as soon as the lingering effects of your nightly dose wear off. If that's the case then it's not necessary to completely stop consuming cannabis if you genuinely need it. But you do need to keep in mind that there's only two main ways to get out of this situation. It's either throwing less dopaminergic drugs at your brain until brain function gets closer to normalizing (this takes a few weeks), or supplying more during the day to keep you functional and at ease.

The easy option isn't always the best one though and just taking more drugs obviously has its cost and dangers. My advice to you would be to do some mild experimentation. To try a drop or two during the day and see if it helps, try slightly reducing your nightly dose for a longer period of time and decide what's next.

Whatever you do, even if I turn out to have made sense through your own observations, make absolutely sure that you don't have full-blown Parkinson's disease brewing. The THC potentially making things worse and you developing Parkinson's disease are not in fact mutually exclusive*, please be diligent.

*Cannabis providing relief if you have Parkinson's isn't either, but it's complicated. Real Sativas/euphoric strains can bring some dopamine to the table and serve as a band-aid, but couchlock/low motivation is dopamine-dependent too, which would be the last thing you'd want with Parkinson's. It really depends.

If you do have Parkinson's disease, then my sincerest condolences. If that's the case then it's wise to ask yourself what might've gotten you to this place, making concerns like heavy metal exposure like others have brought up, other environmental concerns as well as diet (primarily inflammation) very important.

If you have Parkinson's you may want to look into sacred lotus (Nelumbo nucifera). It's complicated, but it has both agonistic and antagonistic activity at the dopamine receptors. The agonistic activity helps to substitute for dopamine that isn't there and leads to more receptor sites being constructed, while the antagonists just sit in the receptor without doing anything. Minimizing the drugginess to some extent while heightening the impact of receptor activation at other sites because it shifts the ratio of receptors available to agonists available. It also elevates NGF (nerve growth factor) levels which causes neurogenesis, helping with the replacement of the dead neurons. Lion's Mane mushrooms* boost NGF levels as well.

*avoid any mushrooms sourced from China due to common heavy metal contamination.

I hope this helps and best of luck to you. May you be healthy and at ease.

Ahhhh and here is the science. Thank you.

 

[Travis Kelcee]

Let's see the information that your wife found. Without that specific information nobody here can genuinely assist you. It's just empty words until science or something equally compelling. But science will get you nowhere if there is no study or white paper, then it is just bro science. I want to help so please post this important piece of missing information that SHOULD have been available in the initial post due to it's importance in the discussion.

You sure added a lot to the discussion