TFD's Original Haze vs Ace's Oldtimer's Haze???

[Highlighter]

Youll spend rest of your days trying to explain this is not a Haze line

Well Hempy has made a lot of posts over the yrs. doing just that. His point of view has well been established.
More times than not, a post by Hempy will be contentious. Just a given.
There is no concrete proof of anything regarding past breeding of haze, there will always be a hole in the story to fill, pointless to me to dwell on it.
Haze, like Mullumbimby Madness, had no set makeup, just the blending of sativas over time.
Threads like this will always be contentious, let's all try to be a little less bitchy about it, talking down to others. Speculate all you want, but try doing so w/ an open mind and kindness.
Dubi, in my mind, is on the right course, couldn't say it better, so let him say it again:

The message of haze is to cross your best pure sativas to try to find something real special, but not to grow same genetics for the past 30 years.

That's called evolution. :wink:
The past is past, taken w/ a grain of salt, the future is now! Be kind, everyone.

 

[Ras Pablo]

As Dubi has said, firstly I will try some of them and take my own conclusions.

I haven't got the pleasure of grow them, but I smoke it several times, green and purple, and they are unique taste's and effects, I enjoined a lot.


Saludos

 

[dubi]

Yes Highlighter, we need to keep the good vibe and respect for others in the words and thinking.

It's sad to see how cannabis can produce so much conflict, polemic, verbal confrontation, ... cannabis shouldnt be a cause for separation, then we are not understanding anything.

Man already have politics, nationalisms and so many other concepts to make conflict, but please let's live the plant without conflict.

 

[Colina]

Since we are all so fond of quoting Sam..

Neville has been know to bend the truth more then once, and has lied to me more then once, when it was to his advantage.

I am sure Shantibaba would tell the truth if he knew the truth, but he was told these FACTS by Neville whom I know tells lies.

I mean Neville sold all my varieties to Sinsi Seeds when he closed the Seed Bank, for big $ and then I told Ben they were never Neville's to sell in the first place and I had spent years developing them, I don't blame Ben but I do think Neville is not someone that you go to to find the truth, unless it is to his advantge to tell the truth.

Lets be honest Neville got the seeds from me, but he had promised me that he would not make pure Haze and sell them as such, I told him it was fine to make Haze hybrids with other varieties that were not mine.
He broke his word and started selling Haze pure and hybrids with my varieties, and I stopped working with him.
Maybe he lied to avoid the problems that accompany breaking your word? I can not say, but I know Neville did not meet the Haze Bros and did not get any O Haze seeds from them.

I believe you were told this by someone who believed it to be true, but that does not make it true, if Neville lied then all the rest is lies regardless of how good or truthfull the people that told you are.

Skunk #1 and Original Haze were famous for a decade or more before Neville ever even thought of selling seeds, wise up.

When I met Neville he had zero good seeds, he was selling imported Mex seeds and Colombian seeds and African seeds from coffee shop weed for $.25 cents each. They were crap. I gave him Skunk #1 and a few others and he repaid me a few years later by copying my varieties and selling them himself cutting me out, after promising he would not.
You were not there but RCC was there and can back me up, but what the hell, why am I arguing with someone that has no idea what really happened as it was between me and Neville and you are just repeating a story that was told to you by people that believed Neville and thought he was a man of his word, but he is not.

I say Neville was what he was, and that did not include creating great Cannabis from scratch, rather he took great Cannabis varieties and made a few crosses to get fast results, not hard to say the least.

I am only telling the truth, sometimes the truth hurts...


-SamS

People like sam and nevile

Hempy,

For the love of Jah can you stop mentioning that snake in the grass Neville in the same breath as with the likes of Sam? One is an honest hard working man of integrity, the other a lying thief? Shanti's done some nice work though..

SuperConductor,

Show me the results of what you've done, lines you've saved and toiled over for years - then maybe I'll give a crap about what you think.

 

[Asiatica]

Wow

Wow

Sam wherever you are...
MUCH RESPECT TO YOU BROTHER.

Peace and positive vibes.

 

[Dalaihempy]

Good day all,

Dalai, i'd recommend you to grow a few and experience the line in person before judge it. Repeat old words from past and from other people is not interesting for me, i dont know what happened with haze 30 years ago, i was not there and i dont like to speculate about it but plants are plants, and the plant talks by itself.

Hiya dubi im not saying the sat hybrid line from ot1 is not good or not wrrthy of being grown out and injoyed mate never did it looks like a nice line but fact is if ot1 did not collect seeds from thehaze brothers seed lines its not haze.

Im not speculateing im stateing facts and direct quotes from ot1.


Originally Posted by Oldtimer1 at bcg forum

My haze was brought here [uk] from the states during its development it was still being developed field scale and may not represent the finished product.

Dubi haze was grown in greenhouse and it was not developed or worked by them that was done in the dam by the likes of sam / nevile.


oldtimer1
I was involved in contributing genetics in the early days towards the breeding of what later became skunk#1

Also a claim by ot1 so wat sam collect seed from ot1 dont think so.

Theres more ot1 claimed wich i want drag in here no point.

Since we are all so fond of quoting Sam..

Hempy,

For the love of Jah can you stop mentioning that snake in the grass Neville in the same breath as with the likes of Sam? One is an honest hard working man of integrity, the other a lying thief? Shanti's done some nice work though..

SuperConductor,

Show me the results of what you've done, lines you've saved and toiled over for years - then maybe I'll give a crap about what you think.

Mate are you kiding me neville has done more in this community than most put togeather its a fact sam hates neville and ods are neville dont like sam but do any of you realy know wat went on between them no so that shit is best left alone and left between partys and do any of you know what sam or nevile or any breeder did or has done honestly no not unless you know them on a personal level and know them well and for a long time you may then.

Fact is neville did collect seeds from with in the us pure haze seeds neville worked with and still used in mr nice today and sed to be the oldest haze line.

I sat down spoke to shanti about haze infact face to face theres nothing mystical or magical about the story how neville collected the seeds from with in the us yes the us not the dam as some of you seam to think.

But sams or neviles haze stocks not in question here.

 

[Colina]

No Hempy Dear,

Twist it any which way you like amigo. Sam has very publicly called out Neville as a liar and a thief, period. Until Neville himself crawls out from under his rock and answers these accusations, they stand firm. I understand it would be convenient for many if this was left alone, or swept under the carpet,,, don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

 

[ClearBarbedFunk]

nice thread all, i love it when you guys talk haze. same arguement but none the less interestin points always come up.

OT1 haze, seed i grew came from HHF, 5 females no males in the small grow i did. didnt see hardly any vairation in the plants. every last one of um made large very wispy bud. long strands with almost unvisable to the eye calyx. i call this type of bud, jungle bud, very much like the Dalats. like a large brillo pad. seen this type of bud in many sativas ive grown. seems alot of the thai ive grown make the same bud as well.

no comment on the smoke, as i killed um off around 18 weeks or so.

THOHaze, Superconductor, have you grown Toms offerin, has any of your close buddies grown it, have ya toked it at all? its a hybrid all right, between 4 sativas, and its called haze. ive grown around 60 to 80 haze plants from Toms stock, i havent seen anything to make me think theres some indica in there of any sort. and now even if your given the lineage of toms offerin your just gonna be a tard and say" i still believe its a Hybrid" what a moron, eat some fuckin pie and man up asshat, do you have any experience growin haze, any at all to be able to make such accusations?

im with hempy, if the seed did not originate with the Haze Bros, it is not haze by name. all of us growers go by a name when lookin at seed, if you put haze in the name, im under the assumption that there is real original haze in the cross. if there is no original haze in the line, then your misleadin the customer.

ive just recently come across this elsewhere, guy made a cross with a G13/haze and some purple plant, he calls it purple haze.....come on man, thats pure bullshit, and the dude is ridin the name nothin else.

Ace can do nothin more then any of us, you go with what your told, and hopefully your bein told the truth.

was at CW when all the shit went down when wolfman cut the beans loose. didnt shanti get some, what did he have to say about the OT1? did he ever grow and say what he thought?


many sativas can look smell and taste like a haze. theres so many different haze plants within a population theres no way you can say thats a Haze plant. Haze is not just incensy, spicey, old damp weed. theres a multitude of citrus in um as well. everyone relates spice, incence and such to a haze, theres many citrus plants in there.

so imo in the end, if it didnt somehow come from the Haze bros, its not Haze in name. anything else is misleadin, and the producer look a bit sketchy.

why name somethin haze that isnt................make your own conclusion

CBF

 

[charlie garcia]

I give up bros, goes not place, just assumptions
best

 

[ClearBarbedFunk]

I give up bros, goes not place, just assumptions
best

yep, its been like this for years charlie, way back to Overgrow. theres always been a heated debate over haze origins.

as i said, same old arguement, hasnt changed much in years that i can tell.

CBF

 

[shantibaba]

Hi All

Well nice to read all your thoughts and beliefs...but no matter who you choose to believe it is a decision you make as none of you were there. Neville traveled widely without people knowing where he was and who he met so speculate all you like as proof is in the seed. We have been using the same Haze males for a long time now and if you wish to view strain based info and photos of the F1 seeds grown by real growers who merely buy the seed from MNS...be my guest.

I did receive so called Haze seeds from wolfman over at CW years ago...but for me it was nothing of selected seed in it since after 18 weeks flower it was still growing. I never made a comment about it as i only had 20 seed sample or so ...I still probably have the rest somewhere...but no matter what everyone is yelling proof is in the seed. There are few guys who I really trust with original stock and Neville is one of them. So for those of you who believe Sam's story about Neville....or for those of you who believe Neville's exposure of Sam...all I can say is Mr Nice Seedbank is still using plants of Nevilles after many years...without fluctuation. I really do not care nor does Neville any longer about all the myths people wish to create...the onus is on the grower/buyer to find as clost to the originals as he or she can...and the empty barrels make the loudest sounds.

So all the best Shantibaba

 

[Mtn. Nectar]

too funny CG...............and nice seeing ya around another Haze discussion.....

the haze was a favorite of ours growing up in the Santa Cruz mountains..........we were fortunate to tend this gal from mid-70's through early 80's........it's phenotypes varied, but our favorite was the purple from sprout through flower.......grew out to massive sizes and with the luck of an "Indian Summer" no greenhouse was needed to finish..............and it was the shiat.....and no trip across the pond......

rated in top three sativas all time for myself........

 

[ClearBarbedFunk]

..the onus is on the grower/buyer to find as clost to the originals as he or she can...and the empty barrels make the loudest sounds.

So all the best Shantibaba

Hola Shanti, thanks for commin by, how is a lowly grower gonna be able to discern what is close to the original, when hes never seen or grown a original haze, let alone seed from the haze bros.

you know as well as anyone how misleading seed discriptions can be and how some like to use certain names in there seed offerins, when theres not a gene of the plant in the cross.

all the name callin, and who dissed who i could care less about, biz partners, friends workin together, most times goes south with a nasty name callin breakup. gotta take that mess with a grain of salt.

all the best
CBF

 

[Ras Pablo]

Very nice discussion for sure.

Why I never see a purple pheno in Orginal Haze or Neville's Haze?? Shantibaba did you ever see a purple pheno at your stock?

The only purple's I've seen was in Tom's Original Haze ( Positronics, as Tom said original stock from Sam) and with ACE's OT's Haze.

Saludos Still here reading the experts.

 

[Raco]

But the best thing to say to you all is that we at MNS worked on '69 seed that Nev received in the 70s.

Raco for it to be haze it had to of come from the haze brothers not just cali the fact nevile collected haze seed that was made in 69 and i belive the oldest haze not inuf info for you.

not inuf info for me...sorry

 

[BeAn]

Haze is nice....:smile:

 

[Dalaihempy]

Dude, you know i didnt 'just work it out'...after i read your haze article in skunk mag i called you out, you went into a keyboard rage and i just couldnt resist seeing if i could make you go ricky ricardo again...

Nuff said from me, ill leave it to the big boys....dont know whether they've read your article in Skunk mag too??????????????????:wink:

bean mate give up throw in the towl and go back to your plants pleaese.

Like i told you in pm it was not me or did i or have i ever wrote for a mag lol.

Do you infact read whats in front of you mate i told you they were some of my pictures but not my article or had i read the article at the time.

bean run along now mate honest your doing your self no favours here lol.

The mag is treating yourself bean to by the way not skunk mag did you infacvt read the right article lol.

 

[BeAn]

:smile:

 

[Cinderella99]

This is a fantastic discussion and I have the feeling that Haze History is being made here. This discussion should be taken mainstream for the younger generation to witness. I'd love for Sam to weigh in. Please continue to treat each other with respect...We're all in this together.
BeAn: Your last comment was below the belt. As far as I'm concerned, Hempy has a PhD in Sativa/Haze highs.

Me? I've got 2 packs of OG TFD (Sam's) on ice that I picked up 10 years ago and I consider my pure haze collection complete. I'm a classicist at heart

 

[Cinderella99]

Hahahaha!

Hahahaha!

This is the way I see it: The Torch has been passed back to California. Because of the politics of the matter, we had to pass the torch to Europe. Now, w/ Amsterdam being shut down and England soon to follow, we, in Cali, need to pick that torch back up and take it to the next level. With the "New World Order", now may be our time to Overgrow/carry the ball. What say you in Cali, can we do it again?