TFD's Original Haze vs Ace's Oldtimer's Haze???

[THCzr]

dude FJ, that haze x dc is going to be killer.

i did some Nev's. Haze x dc a couple years ago, ran the seeds last year..... i wasn't expecting much because of the way i treated the mother during growth i wasn't impressed with her too much (first time growing a haze... and it was in hydro) but those offspring were amazing.... unfortunately in another dumbass move i did not take any clones, and ran all of my seeds.....

think i probably still have some in my "found these seeds in some drawer or on the floor" bag of mixed goodies, but those wont get run for a while most likely since i've got plenty to choose from that i know what it is....

never shoulda lost those....

THC

 

[Crush]

Haze is divine, the biggest pain in the ass I have ever grown, looks like shit, tastes like paradise, hits you like acid and theres no roof, every single hit gets you higher...im still stuck working with haze hybrids, next up haze x DC and haze x DC/SK#1...and some OHxSK#1 f2's...and OHxSK#1 x DC/SK#1. Should be interesting. The haze x SWT#3 I made a while ago is a pretty good example how nice plants can result of crossing haze with something else..

But isn't this what GHS/Mr.Nice have been doing for years.

That was my whole point.

 

[Cinderella99]

Heavy hitters in the house...Much Respect.

Crush... What I meant is --perhaps -- a better representation of a haze high than what a hapless purchaser of one or two packs of one of the pure hazes might get in an indoor grow. Agreed, of course, that with the indica, it will never be a true/pure ceilingless haze high...Just --relatively-- closer to a haze than what some individuals may be able to get given their situation.

I think a lot of the confusion comes from people believing that haze is an IBL or totally true breeding. This is not the case, especially when you're considering a genotype like potency. It's common to have to grow out 30 or 40 of these things before you find "the one". If you consider male selection and progeny testing, as I believe the idea of breeding hazes has entered the discussion, it could be one in a thousand. Haze, itself not a completely worked, predictable strain, doesn't lend itself to indoor growing. What FJ is doing with it is "where it's at" in my opinion, unless you relocate to Switzerland and grow out thousands of plants. Even then it would take years for most folks to figure out what to select for, progeny results. My earlier point is that an expert like Shanti has already done this challenging selection process for you with his hybrids.

About 10 years ago on OG, somebody went down to the equator to grow out a Nevilles and had some good luck...Does anybody recall who that was?

Great discussion. Peace.

 

[Persistance]

Very good read on such a fine art of growing Haze...

 

[Dalaihempy]

Oldtimer talked about 3 different "hazes" he had kept like you mentioned Cinderella, all 3 he spared them around the globe to different people in different countries. ACE one was the left "Haze" seedline he kept form oldtimes so its more an old time offspring or segregation maybe and more unworked meaning indeed. From citrics, to anisated to inciense aromas and lime green, dark green and purple traits

best

hiya charlie first off you know i respect you and ace seeds if you dont well im saying it here i do respect you guys but ot1 has a lot to answear for.

His getting credit for a line he had nothing to do with or if he has was from a commercial breeder others many got also fact and you know it.

The people that should be given credit for the haze and are not are people like SAM / NEVILLE and the ones that worked infact breed selected in the erly dam days and the brothers that infact created it who were not breeders but were growers that has been stated by the likes of sam and shanti online.

Haze vs Ace's Oldtimer's Haze??? This is now what 5 years later after Gant past out seeds from walf man and we have a line thats not related to the haze brothers line ( stated by ot1 him self ) yet is called haze being compeard to orthentic haze come on guys what is going on.

If were going to call any sativa or unknown sativa haze well then time i joine the rest and bring out hempys Haze and hempys haze hybrids to.

Is it just me that sees this or am i just expecting to much.


This is not a swipe at ace seeds makeing this clear if i was to blame any one its ot1 for allowing this to get to were it is 5 years later im amazed he also lays claim to being responsuble for bringing in the lines that created sk and many more please so sam did you and others in cali get your lines from ot1 as his stated mate.


Originally Posted by Oldtimer1 at bcg forum

My haze was brought here [uk] from the states during its development it was still being developed field scale and may not represent the finished product. From what I have gleaned the nearest to the real thing on sale in Europe was sold by Wernard of Positronics. After he went bankrupt his stock and seed Co was taken over by Dutch passion / Home grown fantaseeds. Both these seed banks are run by relatives. The thing is that the spec for their haze has been changed from posies one in a big reduction on the finish time on 12/12. I suspect they have made a cross to a non dom indica.The thing is if you want to grow real haze it takes 12 to 16 weeks on 12/12 the very best being the late ones. The only other Haze that may have some of the original one in could be Nevils haze but greenhouse haven't published its spec yet but once again I suspect it will have indica added we will see. Most the other so called haze are lambs breath and Thai crosses. In fact in Holland haze has become a generic term for a sat with a strong up high.

Wasnt haze created in green houses.


oldtimer1
Apr 6 2004, 01:44 AM
nav I was and am, a do nothing no account as far as general society is concerned.

I have not found a modern var I would keep, I have to say I have not tried that many, most of my genetics come from before there were any seed banks.

Of modern I thought romberry and C99 were good efforts, but neither had the quality of high I look for. I would give them maybe 4 or 5 out of ten. I grew out over a 100 sensi seed bank Jack Herer when they first came out. Not one even made 1 out of 10 in my books.

I was involved in contributing genetics in the early days towards the breeding of what later became skunk#1, but I don�t like what it has become now. I loved field grown haze from SoCal when it was first being developed. Todays versions are pale in comparison.

So sam ot1 past on the lines you used then mate by the sounds.

 

[charlie garcia]

Hola Dalai, dont worry, to argue in interesting talks is never an offense. Thanx for stating your point of view. My only talk comes from what Ive grown and saw and was told, but history and so, really hard to know and am not really interested.

Only fact I know is that what I see and looks bit different to "worked" versions from Sam or Neville. Sincerelly I do not see any sign of "indica" in ACE one but fully sativa expressions. Apart from that, if you smoke a joint of it, you will say its Haze (flavours, aromas, effect). I am sure if we change name and say for instance its Nigeria line, be sure we will be called liers for using a Haze instead... thus taste, smell and makes you high like Haze, how can be called that? the only worked sativa in last decades? Sad definition but I dont see there were many other sativas still alive and around. Hope you understand my point.

Once I knew for first time about seed banks in Holland, wanted to buy mexicans an columbians. Not at all, only indicas and Haze only available sativa. Now guys, where the hell were all other wide world sativas of the age which made the haze? Which ones exactly? Do we know fro sure is same genepool or we think may be or has to be? I have respect for Haze but.. enjoy plenty of times much more with many other sativas. Its really the only heritage to be proud of? Its only sativa line we should be worried about?

all the best

 

[Dalaihempy]

Hola Dalai, dont worry, to argue in interesting talks is never an offense. Thanx for stating your point of view. My only talk comes from what Ive grown and saw and was told, but history and so, really hard to know and am not really interested. Fact is that what I saw looks bit different to "worked" versions from Sam or Neville. Sincerelly I do not see any sign of "indica" in ACE one but fully sativa expressions.

Fact is charlie haze had to be from the haze brothers mate the point here is not that its a sativa or if its good smoke that im sure it is but more if its fact haze the term used to often in lines not related to the original line that was named haze that came from the haze brothers.

 

[charlie garcia]

see your point Dalai but dont know about this, if you say so, must be right anymay. But be sure we cannot call it a nigeria smoke and Sam and Neville call them "Original" and "Nevilles" hazes. Also once explained all and shown pictures, line was on public debate to argue as it was from first days at old CW, but I cannot talk about old times, I wasnt there to know those things and maybe we could expect someone to explain again and again. After years debate seems to be around and still but is not my point as gardener, I saw interesting old genetics, differing to what was being offered and thus they came out and we explain them sincerelly trying not to play with haze hype but trying to describe what we found and we showed you

best

 

[Dalaihempy]

so its haze, isnt it?

Charlie it cant be haze if it did not come from the haze brothers mate it can only be a given line of sativa or an unknow sativa or sativa hybrid line.

Fact is as you know charlie lots of good sativas will give you that type of high but some sativas can give you some stone in there high also but its very hard to get the quolity old sativas now.

There out there tho still.

I have a few very old sativas i have an old thia line that looks just like haze takes up to 14 weeks to sex indoors alone do i call it haze no mate i call it thia.

I could call it hempys haze but no as its not haze mate as it didnt come from the haze brothers.

 

[Octavius]

hi guys, old head here. below is a post ive saved from years ago now about the ot1 haze lines. he was very kind in the sense he shared these sativa lines with me. *edit: another quote i found while looking through old files in the email.

Oldtimer1
9-28-1999
Posts:439
Vic my haze lines are separate from the conventional dutch hazes of sam the skunkman. To grow with tropicals indoors and under lighting, well totally different techniques are needed but to my mind they are worth it. This year I have passed on most of what I had left of my h seed stock to a friend and if he is successful the strain may carry on we will see. I do have some mums from a series of crosses m between h and ss of which hd s one, its my fav smoke and takes 9 to 10 w on 12 h.

Oldtimer1
7-16-2001
Posts: 1,032
Budm, to answer your question no, this haze line is from a commune north of Sacramento and evolved separately but at the same time as Dutchmen haze lines. I hope this helps a bit Budm, I hope i don't owe you any mail I've been ill gain and have lost track a bit. cha cal I for one would appreciate hearing about your developing scrog system and come to that any further developments with scuffing.
All the best Ot1

 

[charlie garcia]

well am sure more folks would know better than me about these old names, legends and so. Just added my 2 cents about ACE descriptions of plants and certain common traits I observed compared to the other known Haze lines. But got your point now I think, only brothers haze seeds should use the Haze name as many wild sativa hybrids around, is that Dalai? My impression was they just call them Haze in general, as a late sativa, once Haze name started or not, dont know so cannot say much about that, guess Sam and others must have explained.

My point was I dont know where these seeds originated (said before posible "segregation or offspring of") but looks, tastes, smells and hits like what we know like haze. Wish I could know and find line reponsable of such inciense aroma if it was just one!.. never knew exactly where should have come from... colombia? nepal? thailand? but only found it in all these what we call Haze lines

best

 

[BeAn]

nevilles haze 25% nl?...cant b a haze then, call it nevs thai/lumbo x thai x afghan? Eh hempy?

 

[Dalaihempy]

nevilles haze 25% nl?...cant b a haze then, call it nevs thai/lumbo x thai x afghan? Eh hempy?

bean my friend take you how long to work that out lol.

Yes nevilles haze is 75% Haze 25% NL5 but strain info says that but the point is neville haze uses real haze.

Run along now bean.

 

[Dalaihempy]

well am sure more folks would know better than me about these old names, legends and so. Just added my 2 cents about ACE descriptions of plants and certain common traits I observed compared to the other known Haze lines. But got your point now I think, only brothers haze seeds should use the Haze name as many wild sativa hybrids around, is that Dalai? My impression was they just call them Haze in general, as a late sativa, once Haze name started or not, dont know so cannot say much about that, guess Sam and others must have explained.

My point was I dont know where these seeds originated (said before posible "segregation or offspring of") but looks, tastes, smells and hits like what we know like haze. Wish I could know and find line reponsable of such inciense aroma if it was just one!.. never knew exactly where should have come from... colombia? nepal? thailand? but only found it in all these what we call Haze lines

best

Yes charlie as a strain name has a purpose mate.

Like i sed haze came from the brothershaze who created it and those who got seeds of it and worked it have real haze those that dont well dont mate.

People like sam and nevile and those that worked with them in sepret camps have real haze those that did not get haze from the source yet call it haze dont have it mate do they.

Now if you were a person wanting to grow real haze would you not want real haze or would you want an unrelated sat or sat hybrid being called haze.

 

[charlie garcia]

will always be hard not to call haze to something which tastes, smells and hits so much to what we know like haze. And guess thats an important reason for the argument about names used here, as far as is explained the source of genetics clearly and openly discussed with plenty of info I am happy with "old sativa hybrid". But for definition purposes for what we found, know and understand, be sure I do associate them with haze. Do a blind smoke and you will see. I dont know if opposite position, not calling it like a "haze" line, will have caused even a bigger and more obscure debate. From lots of world sativas Ive grown none of them smelled or tasted even close to "haze" but only those originated in cali it seems... maybe if so some nepalese, or maybe some thai essences but never so intense and well defined... but my experience is so limited to more or less modern stock as not much preserved from the old 60's-70's lines to know for sure.

take care mate

 

[dubi]

Good day all,

Dalai, i'd recommend you to grow a few and experience the line in person before judge it. Repeat old words from past and from other people is not interesting for me, i dont know what happened with haze 30 years ago, i was not there and i dont like to speculate about it but plants are plants, and the plant talks by itself.

 

[SuperConductor]

Your above statement has zero base in fact and is simply a false conclusion that a few have reached and decided to puke around the forums. Wernard has recently confirmed via a well respected member of this community (who had the same doubts as you) that positronics did in fact offer the pure version bred from Sam's stock, in addition to the hybrid (purple haze?) that you want to misread the info on and somehow attach to the above non-outcrossed line. Does he who has been out of biz for how long now have some reason to lie about this? What exactly is your pure haze experience and what was your source of seed? My guess is not much outside the super narrow phenos that the Dutch camp has isolated for breeding purposes. I have grown 1000 or so from the above source and there is nothing there that would lead me to believe it is anything other than as advertised. 75% +/- female, 14-16+ weeks of flowering, variable traits ranging from Mexican to Thai, from hay to holy shit. Variation that is seemingly forever locked into the line. Where are the 12 week phenotypes etc that your version of reality would surely bring? Nowhere to be found is the answer. Original Haze is a 4 way hybrid and it is the lines that don't show this variation that should be raising eyebrows imo. Is it so hard for you to believe that meaningful breeding could have transpired outside your realm of experience? As far as I am concerned there is only one man that could settle this once and for all and that man is Sam, not you. I'd be willing (if he is) to put a grip of samples in his hands and see if he detects any outside blood in there but I somehow think that even that may not be good enough for some of you? Continue on my slanderous misinformed friends, but know that you have a big fat and public mental bitch-slapping coming when all of the truth finally comes out, lol.

Thanks for the info, no need to be such a cock about it though. Still think it's a hybrid personally

 

[dubi]

Yes charlie, it's so repetitive to talk again and again about the same plant.
Haze is a very unique sativa line but it's not the only one worth to preserve or to talk about. The modern genetic reduction of sativa being mainly haze have had very low benefit for genetic sativa diversity in commercial lines.
Today's commercial sativa legacy is lame and how we did arrive to this point?

The message of haze is to cross your best pure sativas to try to find something real special, but not to grow same genetics for the past 30 years.

We must be more open minded and experience the sativa mixes by our self. Again, a good haze is magnificent but we must find other nice sativa combinations, with different genetics to arrive to different lands, different tastes, highs and experiences about sativa.

 

[charlie garcia]

Dalai, figure out such scenario I commented b4 and think about it. Say to all this is not Haze and you will see reactions after growing and smoking it. Youll spend rest of your days trying to explain this is not a Haze line

 

[Raco]

Like i sed haze came from the brothershaze who created it and those who got seeds of it and worked it have real haze those that dont well dont mate.

yes hehe....1969,right?
You´re tenacious Hempy...where´s Kashgari...eh?

SuperConductor,
care to elaborate?

"QUOTE=Dalaihempy]Raco shanti clearly stated neville got seed from the brothers and why its called haze i wounder how many calling there lines haze infact got theres from the brothers or are infact even related the the brothers line.[/quote]

QUOTE=Raco]WADR:
kashgari edited his posts ,but I printed the thread before that [/quote]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raco
I don´t have it handy...but he basically said that Sam knows who...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalaihempy
Kas cant post under his acount as he lost his pass ward that is one reson why he has not posted .

Raco for it to be haze it had to of come from the haze brothers not just cali the fact nevile collected haze seed that was made in 69 and i belive the oldest haze not inuf info for you.

I dont get this personaly shanti sed neville got the seeds from the hz brothers now when they say 69 did any one stop and think that infact the seed was made in 69 i dont know when neville collected it or cear personaly what matters to me as a grower is that its infact real haze and the end resolt is what i expect it to be i know neville collected it from the us as i asket as i to read many things that did not add up to me i was told in person and things dont need to be complicated or mytrhical to be fact in the canna world guys.

Neville did a lot and in all honesty i can now see why he dont post online or why he dont bother with much more than his plants now days cant blame him. "