Tex’s Farm: Perpetual CFL Micro SOG

[TexMex McDirt]

Hey Chloemobile. I am running about the same setup as always. Still doing the micro SOG Dr Bud style. I ran a few SCRoGs, but the lesser effort of the SCRoGs didn't win me over, I like the SOG. I built a new slightly bigger flower cab, so I now can have 6 rows of 4 instead of 5 rows of 3. Still running Northern Lights and Blue Mystic.

I am REALLY liking what I am seeing from Blynx and a few others who are playing with the off-the-shelf LED bulbs. I may rework my lighting in both cabs to go with those and retire the CFLs. Jury is still out on that decision, but I am strongly considering. I have thought a lot about LED, but am not going to spend a ton or become an electrical engineer, those off-the-shelf LED bulbs may be my next thing. Will post about that if I do make the change to LEDs and record the results.

I am also thinking a lot about building a small grow room in the attic. Something I can lock up and isolate everything in, I can insulate it and run HVAC to it. I have enough room to build like a 6x6 room, which would be big enough. But, that would be a big project for down the road when I have some $$$ to spare - which is rare these days. I am still running the farm up there, but the temp battles in the hot summers suck and the girls suffer for it, winters are usually so mild that they aren't an issue really. If I do build that I will for sure post about it.

Otherwise, it's pretty boring, which is good. Things are just churning along.

Happy Farming. Stay safe!
Tex

 

[ReikoX]

Hey man great read. Starting up my own micro SOG, glad to see it working for you.

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Hi ReikoX - Glad you got something from here. I don't post too much lately, never did really. I read here way, way more than I post. That's the only reason I have had any success at all, reading thru the awesome threads here and soaking it all in. Oh yea, and learning from a lot of my own mistakes too. Micro SOG is a fun way to go if your main goal is self sufficiency. It does require more regular maintenance than many other methods. But I don't mind the time with the girls.

Happy farming, stay safe.
Tex

 

[Buddah Watcha]

Hey nice grow log broda! I dig your style! I hope you pull the trigger on them leds, you wont be dissapointed i bet! Anyways keep us updated on your projects! Great read indeed!

Best vibes, Peace BW!

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Hey BW, thanks for looking in. I am figuring out the LEDs. Watching these videos that Namgorf suggested was really incredibly helpful.

DIY LED Basics - for noobs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdN6d0v814
DIY LED basics - common configurations for your grow space:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fxcgF1FLCM
DIY LED Basics - choosing your heatsink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFj-FxIbCbg
DIY LED Basics: mounting leds/COBs to heatsinks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elBzBTtE78I
DIY LED Basics: wiring LEDs/COBs to driver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EULTIEf3fSI

Also, thanks to hopesluck for the great post on his COB build here.

I have kinda big plans actually (well, big for micro). I am going build out a small room in the attic space to isolate everything into. It'll be about 6'x6', insulated and I'll duct in HVAC. I'll start on that some time after the new year. I am also going to build a new, slightly larger flower cab. It'll be 16"x24". I plan to keep running a micro SOG. That cab space will allow me to run 7 rows of 4. So it'll be 4 out and 4 in every 10 days. I also might switch to SCRoG later. But that's still just a maybe. My current flower cab will get switched to be the mom/veg cab. I am still cloning the same way, with the ice tube tray and the infamous Chloemobile Water Cooler Cloning Chamber (CWCCC).

I do plan on moving to a COB LED light fixture in the new flower cab. I debated back and forth on COB LED vs 150/250 HPS and decided that LED is the future and anything I can do to reduce heat is a winner. So I am planning on using Bridgelux Vero's. Either the Vero13 like this one or the Vero18 like this one. Planning to mount to an 18"x5.886" heatsink from HeatsinkUSA with a 140mm fan for active cooling.

If I go with the Vero13's it will be a config like this with 8 COBs...


If I go with the Vero18's it will be a config like this with 4 COBs...


Both of those should get me right about 15k lumens. I am leaning towards the Vero18's just because 4 COBs seems simpler to manage than 8. But I have not decided. Any feedback on that is welcomed. I am not sure what drivers to use but am planning to go with Mean Well. The Vero13's want to run at 500ma and the Vero18's want to run at 1050ma. I am thinking maybe the HLG-185H-C700 if I go with the Vero13's and either the HLG-185H-C1050 or HLG-185H-C1400 if I go with the Vero18's. Any feedback on drivers is welcomed as well.

So, that's the big plans for the future of the farm. Let me know what you all think and I will start posting on progress when there is anything fun to post about.

Peace. Happy Farming.
Tex

 

[Chloemobile]

Hey BW, thanks for looking in. I am figuring out the LEDs. Watching these videos that Namgorf suggested was really incredibly helpful.

DIY LED Basics - for noobs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdN6d0v814
DIY LED basics - common configurations for your grow space:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fxcgF1FLCM
DIY LED Basics - choosing your heatsink:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFj-FxIbCbg

Also, thanks to hopesluck for the great post on his COB build here.

I have kinda big plans actually (well, big for micro). I am going build out a small room in the attic space to isolate everything into. It'll be about 6'x6', insulated and I'll duct in HVAC. I'll start on that some time after the new year. I am also going to build a new, slightly larger flower cab. It'll be 16"x24". I plan to keep running a micro SOG. That cab space will allow me to run 7 rows of 4. So it'll be 4 out and 4 in every 10 days. I also might switch to SCRoG later. But that's still just a maybe. My current flower cab will get switched to be the mom/veg cab. I am still cloning the same way, with the ice tube tray and the infamous Chloemobile Water Cooler Cloning Chamber (CWCCC).

I do plan on moving to a COB LED light fixture in the new flower cab. I debated back and forth on COB LED vs 150/250 HPS and decided that LED is the future and anything I can do to reduce heat is a winner. So I am planning on using Bridgelux Vero's. Either the Vero13 like this one or the Vero18 like this one. Planning to mount to an 18"x5.886" heatsink from HeatsinkUSA with a 140mm fan for active cooling.

If I go with the Vero13's it will be a config like this with 8 COBs...
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=342890&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

If I go with the Vero18's it will be a config like this with 4 COBs...
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=342891&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Both of those should get me right about 15k lumens. I am leaning towards the Vero18's just because 4 COBs seems simpler to manage than 8. But I have not decided. Any feedback on that is welcomed. I am not sure what drivers to use but am planning to go with Mean Well. The Vero13's want to run at 500ma and the Vero18's want to run at 1050ma. I am thinking maybe the HLG-185H-C700 if I go with the Vero13's and either the HLG-185H-C1050 or HLG-185H-C1400 if I go with the Vero18's. Any feedback on drivers is welcomed as well.

So, that's the big plans for the future of the farm. Let me know what you all think and I will start posting on progress when there is anything fun to post about.

Peace. Happy Farming.
Tex

Nice planning Tex! I am stuck on the same issue right now between one string of the Vero 18's or 2 strings of the Vero 13's. I think at this point it's splitting hairs but I am with you on the one string...4 less LED's to deal with. I think the only benefit with the 8 v 4 is that every corner would be illuminated. More than likely that would be the case with the 4 too but it's easy to see how something directly in the corner could grow out of the "cone" of light. Once tall enough but below a certain height it wouldn't matter. This is just jn my mind though. I'm sure you could do a 3D sketch up of your box dimensions and create a 120 degree cone from the proposed LED locations to see if there would be spots of indirect light. i suspect the amount would be negligible and "the juice not worth the squeeze" though to go through al that effort. Short version whatever's easier and cheaper of the two.

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Hey Chloemobile. My thinking is exactly the same, getting COBs closer to the corners. But I really think those couple of inches will be negligible. I think I'm just going to rip off hopesluck fixture, but with 4 COBs instead of 5. 4 COBs, 1 driver, 1 heatsink, 1 fan and done. He's covering a 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 space with his. So I'm pretty confident it'll be more than efficient for my smaller space. Just need to make sure I account for some headroom to give it the angles it needs. I'm going to start building everything after the new year, once the holiday madness has passed. I'll post on the progress of everything with pics. Everyone likes pics. My thread has been lacking on pics recently. LOL.

Peace and chicken grease!
Tex

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Got my Vero18 COBs (Bridgelux BXRC-35E4000-F-23) and driver (Mean Well HLG-185H-C1050). Heatsink is on the way. Soon I will start building the new farm. It'll be an insulated room about 6'x6' in the attic with HVAC spliced in from the laundry room duct.

So, I am looking for some feedback on the light. The new flower cab will be 16"x24". That's about 2.67 sq feet. I think about 36" tall to accommodate for the light to have room to adjust to be 6"-12" from the tops. I will continue running the micro SOG, 7 rows of 4. I may move to SCRoG later, but not yet. I want to keep that option open. Right now, with the SOG, the cups they grow in are about 6" tall and the girls get to be about 12"-18". So I need to account for 24" for the girls. Leaving the extra 12" for the light.

So... Here's my math on the COBs. Should I go with 3 or 4 of the LEDs? According to the Vero18 datasheet, at 1050mA, they run at 31W and put out 3655 lumens.

If I go with 3...
I get 10,965 lumens, about 4,112 lumens per sq foot.
I get 93 total watts, about 34.88 watts per sq foot.

If I go with 4...
I get 14,620 lumens, about 5,482 lumens per sq foot.
I get 124 total watts, about 46.5 watts per sq foot.

I am leaning towards 3. I have read most people tend to run 30-50 watts per sq foot for COB LEDs. And I am not sure about the lumens. I think 3 will be enough. I am concerned if I go with 4 that will be too much and I do not want to fry the girls. I know the general rule is always that more light is better. But I am totally new to LED.

Really appreciate any feedback on this, the COB count, the cab height, anything. I can't wait to get started, really looking forward to the new digs.

Happy farming, stay safe!
Tex

 

[Chloemobile]

Everyone likes pics. My thread has been lacking on pics recently

seriously what the fuck.



So i found some life changing info from searching the internet concerning COB's.

this Formula calculates the PPFD of a 1000W HPS in a 4x4 area.

google PPFD as i barely understand it. But its what the real LED nerds get boners about.

1000 (dissipation W) * .36 (HPS efficiency average over 12-18 mnths) = 360 PAR W
Apply 20% reflector losses (288 PAR W) and 10% glass losses (260 PAR W)
260 PAR W/16 ft² = 16.2 PAR W/ft²
16.2 * 10.7 (ft² in 1 m²) = 173 PAR W/m²
173 * 4.98 (umol/PAR W for HPS) = 863 PPFD

if we substitute your info:

93W(31W * 3 Chips) (dissipation W) * .4032 (Vero 18 efficienty at 1050ma) = 37.5 PAR W
37.5 PAR W/2.67 ft² = 14.0 PAR W/ft²
14.0 * 10.7 (ft² in 1 m²) = 150 PAR W/m²
150 * 4.94 (umol/PAR W for Vero 3000k) = 742 PPFD

you are right there. I also read that anywhere from 12-18 Par W/ square foot is fine. Once you start getting over this number you get diminishing returns to the point where the plants are overly saturated. There is a lot of nuance from reading around. but just from a number to number comparison you are almost as good as a 1000w HPS in a 4x4 area.

Because different chips have different efficacy at different drive currents you have to use PAR W instead of just dissipated Watts. I guess in general more watts and more lumens = more Par but at what efficiency. for instance if you drive the 18's at 700 they are 20W if you drive them at 1050 they are 30W but you dont get 10W of additional light you only get 7 W of that is PAR W/Useable to the plant.

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Thanks for that math Chloemobile. That confirms my thoughts. Going with 3 gets me about 14 Par W per sq foot. 4 is over 18 and seems, like you mentioned, getting into diminishing returns. The build starts soon and pics will accompany. I'm done thinking about this and ready to go.

Mahalo!
Tex

 

[Yeah its me]

What's up TeX. Fellow Southner' here near Texas Stadium. I will be doing a dresser grow soon (hoping for seeds in dirt by march) with 2 tubs on the side 1 for mothers and 1 for clone/beg. Would be interested in seeing your results with the LEDs. I've only grown indoors with cfl and love the ease (I'm no electrician) and dealing with ballasts doesn't seem like a good option for cab heat (see Texs weather/temp issues). How discreet was the seed shipping? Have you gotten any from other companies than Nirvana? How fast did they get there if you've ordered more then the one time I read? Anyways great results and journal, read it all through. Anyways hope to hear soon. This is my first post as everything I've read here had been years old I thought this was dying like OG did. Thanks and any tips would GREATLY be appreciated

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Hey Yeah its me - I'm no electrician either which is one of the main reasons I have always used CFLs. Ease of access, installation, etc... One of the main reasons I want to switch to LED is to see if that will help me with any heat issues. Once I have my new room built (which is started, coming along slowly but surely) I am hoping that I can resolve all those temp problems. One thing about ballasts, whether LED or HID or even PLL is you can keep them remote outside of the cab.

As for beans, I have ordered from Seed Boutique and direct from Nirvana. I have always ordered Nirvana beans cause of price, but some will say they don't have the greatest genetics. Maybe not, but I have been happy with them. The first time I ordered from the Boo they were taking credit cards and my order got here in about a week. Was pretty impressed. The second time though they were no longer taking CCs and I sent cash, and it never got there. They did send me a few beans which was nice, but it was a frustrating process. There are many reputable places to order beans from. I have had good luck using a CC. Just make sure you go thru a reputable house. Was very discreet every time.

 

[Yeah its me]

Thanks for the tips. Look forward to seeing how you like the LEDs. Your split vent system is DEFINITELY something I will try as I wasn't too sure on how I was going to vent my drying area and remain stealth.

 

[Yeah its me]

Just wanted to check on you, havent heard from you in awhile. Hope all is well in your part of town.

 

[TexMex McDirt]

So, just a bit of an update on the new build out I'm working on. I have the new attic room 3/4 done. I just need to put up wall #4 that will also have the door. I am saving that till last so I can get in and out easy with the new cabs and whatnot. Plus, it'll be the hardest piece, so it's last.

Ventalation will come in spliced into an existing HVAC duct.



This will be the new Flower Cab. It's 16" deep, 26" wide and about 34" tall. Pretty plain cab, framed with 1x2s, skinned with 1/2 inch plywood and has 1&1/2" PVC 90s at the base for intake. It has two 3" PVC 90 vents at the top that go into a Tee and connects into the Drying/Filter box.



This is new DIY LED COB fixture. It's 3 Vero 18s on an 18" heatsink. Driver is one Mean Well HLG-185H-C1050. It'll have a Cooler Master fan for active cooling.



Here's the underside of the Drying/Filter box that the cabs will connect into. The new flower cab connects on the left, the mom/veg cab will connect on the right. The mom/veg cab is going to be my current flower cab. It's in use, so not in here yet.



And here is inside the Drying/Filter box.

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Update continued from previous page/post...

Here's the combo



The Drying/Filter box will vent thru a new Phresh 4x12 Carbon Filter, with a S&P TD-100X (135 CFM) inline fan and out into the attic somewhere.



Inside the Drying/Filter box is this frame I made from 1/2" molding to hang dry from. It's about 10" cubed. I made it so it could taken out to access easily.



The bottom of the Drying/Filter box has 2 DIY light proofing vents to help with blocking light between the cabs. Same as in this thread by ScrubNinja.



A closer look at the DIY light proofing vents...

 

[TexMex McDirt]

And, here is what's going on in the mom/veg cab right now. Just a bunch of Northern Lights and Blue Mystic moms, clones and such. This cab will be retired once I move everything to the new space.



And here's what's going on in the flower cab right now. Just a bunch of micro SOG Northern Lights and Blue Mystic girls. This cab will become my mom/veg cab in the new space.



That's it for now. More to come later.

Happy Farming. Stay Safe!
Mahalo,
Tex

 

[Yeah its me]

Looking good tex. I ended up going for tents and will start my journal soon but you are still giving me great ideas. Keep it up bro!

 

[ReikoX]

Are those 32 oz plastic drinking cups with holes in the bottom? I like the different colors. I keep toying with the idea of a SOG in my main grow, but am trying to keep my numbers within legal limits (4 flowering plants). F**k plant counts.

 

[TexMex McDirt]

Yeah its me Good luck, have fun, take your time and plan it out right. Happy farming!

ReikoX Yea, they are cups with drain holes drilled into the bottoms. Dollar store find. I got them specifically because of the different colors. I am really considering going with larger pots and plants soon. Like 5 inch nursery pots and plant that are topped twice and vegged for a few weeks. I think with the COB LED penetration I can pack more in there. Plant count doesn't really mean shit to me. One plant is too many for LEO where I hang my hat. But I think I can get higher yields with fewer slightly bigger girls.

Mahalo.
Tex