Terra Preta - Dark Soil - Experiment

[MrFista]

Yeah SS I was being cheeky about the flowering plant. Interesting it is not competing with the plant under a light, too early in the season I guess.

How much char - only wee bits as i can't make much at once, the hole i dug has 2 handfuls in it, but it's composition I'm quite proud of.

It is hardwood and pine sticks, avocado pits, grapefruit and orange peel (tiny bit) all made in a can within can system in my fireplace. The char comes out with bubbles of tar, charred but obviously not burnt off.

I've placed spots of it all over in the vege garden and these spots are generating better growth. I hope the accelerated biology begins to 'join up'. Meantime I add wee bits where and when I can.

I've charred cat vomit, and cat scat, but this char goes down under the shelter belt, to increase further coppicing yield, not on my food plants. I think it's entirely safe after pyrolisation, but why risk it.

I just cracked it indoors with a TP mix. Got sacks of bud and it is very strong.

Been unseasonally cold there too? I lost a lot of potential early food from flower drop the past few days.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Yeah we had a cold spell and then a mini-heatwave! Got up tp around 30c then cooled off in the late afternoon... almost lost some babies in greenhouse but got there in time.

Plants outdoors starting to bud up but still half the size...

I have to ask... why cat shit!?!?

O and what u use for indoors mix?? Edit: The mix on page 8?

 

[jaykush]

well, i moved and i don't have access to the char anymore. but the good news is i can make it myself now without the fire deptartment being here asap when they see the smoke. so gimme a little bit to catch back up. the soil here NEEDS some TP action for sure.

 

[ThePhantomToker]

Update the Soiless Terra Preta Buckets are rocking out. Once the plants settled in, maybe 48 hrs, its been on like Donkey Kong. My previous grows in soil Terra Preta were an improvement over organic soil, and this is an bigger leap in performance over that so far. All three methods have included inoculation with Fungi and Bacteria. My feeding regement is the same, fish and kelp emulsions with EWC tea, and molasses. I'm using the same foliar schedule as before, and the same lighting. I really hope this continues to kick ass all the way to harvest, I need to channel some good energy.

I'm coming up on another transplanting in about a week. The planned additions to the program are as follows:

-I have inoculated the coir with lacto bacilli and dried it out like you would with wheat
bran for bokashi ( stored in a sealed freezer bag in a cool dark place)
-I will be adding EM to my foliar regiment.
-I adding home fermented organics to the feeding schedule.

The mix will be tweaked to the following:

-2 parts- Charcoal
-2 parts- Diatomite Rock
-2 parts- Inoculated Coco Coir
-2 parts- Expanded Clay Pellets
-1 parts- EWC

I plan to water it in with a full organic load 48 hrs. prior to transplant. Cross my fingers an toes, cup my nuts and hope for the best.

Peace TPT

 

[MrFista]

Here's some reading for you guys who like it heavy.

Char and Mycorrhizal fungi

Why cat shit? - What else can I do with it?

 

[MrFista]

Comparison Report

Comparison Report

Bones/pottery/char (BPC) vs char only

Both plants cloned from same Mum. Exactly same conditions nutrition etc except the pottery and bones. Some observations...

Growth - Same.

Yield - 2-3% more on BPC.

Maturation - BPC showed autumn colours (purples orange reds yellows) and finished beautifully. Char finished green just paling.

Drainage - All holes in both plants (1/4 inch holes) were plugged! Suspect sedimentation with mycos not innoculated properly/early enough?

Root mass - BPC slightly denser. No worms present in either.

Aroma - Same.

Visuals - on the plant BPC looked best finishing. Bag appeal - BPC again looks better, very slightly denser and more contrast in hairs:calyx colours.

Taste - Same.

Stone - BPC seems smoother in stone. I think it is one or two days ahead of the char plant in maturity, lost my freaking loupe sorry people. BPC my have a slight edge here, just testing it this morning and it's coming on really well. The weed is sativa dominant and can mess with the head at times, the bpc doesn't seem so hectic.


I theorise with the way the bpc finished it could feed slightly more than a char alone mix earlier on in life, and yield better as a result. However, the results I got are far too fine, a slight margin of error would cancel them out.

I'm glad I did this experiment as I pulled the pot out to have a look, and saw the drainage issues. Wasn't an issue really, but shows me I can grow without worrying about holes and trays for pots now I know how much they'll drink.

Obviously fine silt is not being bound in my pots or the drains would not be clogged. So my indoor experiments with cover cropping alfalfa to keep the mycos are not working. Good to know. So it was time to turn the soil over again.

All the TP mix is in a big barrel with dolomite and blood and bone and worm castings and kelp for 3 weeks. After I threw it all in said barrel, however, I realised my side to side was over as I'd mixed it all in, BPC mix and all, damn stoner.

The pottery nearly cut me mixing in the barrel - it hurt but didn't cut. It could have cut. Let's be careful out there.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Cool report MrFista and nice pdf too Thats good the mix with pottery/bones matured faster and has better roots.

Thats a shame you had to leave your charcoal and stuff behind jaykush... least you can join in the fun in your new place

Hey nice mix PhantomToker! Sounds very interesting using charcoal in a hydro setup. I reckon with a drip it will work perfect!! Havta try this myself soon... never grown in hydro b4. Got any pics?

My first batch in TP arent looking the best but think thats because i havent watered them enough and they got bit burnt by sun and a foliar spray. I have a pumpkin and new clones kicking along nicely in same mix.

Does mychorizial fungi have to be inoculated into soil vs it naturally occuring outdoors? I notice you use the white fungi around pine trees in a tea recipe... is this the fungi?? I havent been able to source any mic. here. I do have some fungi tea booster that i can mess with Been bit slack on the fungi front but gonna get more into it now...

I am working on a few side by sides... so far got some RB clones in my TP mix, one in recycled TP from last season and one in just coco/perlite/wormcastins... Gonna find out if TP can compete with the might of LC's soiless#1 and brand name nutes

Will take some pics when its all set up.

 

[jaykush]

Thats a shame you had to leave your charcoal and stuff behind jaykush... least you can join in the fun in your new place

actually its working out for the better. i can make my own char and i have talked to a few people and have access to lots of fresh chipped wood from multiple species, seems like im going to be making A LOT of biochar, possibly even some to sell to the locals. as NO one knows about it, ive asked all the local nurserys already, i would have figured they would be up on there game here compared to down south. looks like im going to have to stir up some shit and get things going.

fista good stuff, how long did you have the bpc sitting before use? we all know it only gets better with age. are you going to try it again. hope so. soon ill be in on the fun!

 

[marali]

how will you make it?

 

[MrFista]

The BPC mix was only 'matured' a few weeks with a soil recycle.

I'm grinding char to dust now and putting it in a worm farm for carbon. That ought to set it up as a micro-herd innoculant. Added a bunch of chitin in the form of shrimp casings yesterday, this selects fungi that eat insect exoskeletons. The plot, ever thickens...

I'm having trouble getting mycos too SS. Fungi Perfecti are not allowed to ship to Australia or NZ. But you might find a local supplier for farmers containing g.mosseae. So I'm getting all the books, but no mycogrow products or shitaake plugs waah (cries uncontrollably, is upset his plans have been thwarted)...

I'm interested in finding out what the 'females' of these beneficial mycos are. You guys know how one species is the mycos, and the other is the fruiting mushroom, and only a few have beeen 'matched up' in science so far...

Need my books, snail mail...

I WILL get to the bottom of it, and find the australasian species, both wild and reputable suppliers!

ps - I'm going to use about 3 ozs of vaped buds as char in a pot, let you know how it turns out...

 

[jaykush]

how will you make it?

still not sure yet, most likely will try a few methods and see what works best. still need some supplies before i get into action.

I'm having trouble getting mycos too SS. Fungi Perfecti are not allowed to ship to Australia or NZ. But you might find a local supplier for farmers containing g.mosseae. So I'm getting all the books, but no mycogrow products or shitaake plugs waah (cries uncontrollably, is upset his plans have been thwarted)...

its ok, you just need to learn the local species and your set. i have a few plants i used to collect myco from where i used to be, some from shrubs, some from annual bush type plants and others from grasses and wildflowers. its always a nice surprise to dig up some roots and see them covered in fungi and extending into the soil searching for the plant.

even more fun to do testing and see if they actually do anything for me. im having real good luck here though, been on the "hunt" big time. tons of fungal activity here.

ps - I'm going to use about 3 ozs of vaped buds as char in a pot, let you know how it turns out...

hehe already one step ahead of you i charred the stems and shitty popcorn nugs from some of a friends outdoor grow not too long ago. the soil is still sitting for some time until ill let my friend dig into it and use it. but i have "high" hopes lol.

 

[MrFista]

Doh! Char the stems....

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Hehe, charred stems. Cool!

My babies in TP are going well. Got a couple side by sides cranking.

These puppies are clones. One in LC's #1 (wormcastings, no char) the other my version of TP. Both fed same nute mix. So far TP plant has more space between nodes but growth rate the same.




These un's are also same batch clones. In greenhouse. One on left is in last seasons run at TP (much less coco) with some added dry nutes. One in middle is my current version TP and last one is in coco/perlite/soil... basically LC's soiless mix #1. As you can see the TP plant and LC's #1 are even. The funny thing is that the plant on left got off to a much bigger start in my cloning tray... its rootball was almost double the size of other two! It is worth noting that all these mixes do contain charcoal.




EDIT: Hey MrFista! Have you any news on the fungi front??

 

[MrFista]

Fungus!

PITA but I'm soldiering on. So I'm wanting all the books go to buy them it says no shipping arrangements... another email to them... in the meantime our dollar keeps dropping and now they'll cost me a lot more.

25% more. Plus $60 local in postage.

I still want them all. But, ouch!

Upside, I removed a tree the other day and found loads of myco growth under it so handfuls of that went in the worm bin, and I found a really proficient dead pine eating species (bout 3 years it's chewed up a 12" diameter trunk) so some of that went in the worms, and I have 2 types of psilocybes grow close so got a bit of that mycelium too, for shits and giggles, and, for the worms of course. Then added some wee bits of powdered char. I'm thinking it'll make a great soil innoculant, but still worried about 'the right stuff' as far as fungi goes. The books should show me the correct fruits I can pick and utilise.

I sprayed some worm tea type stuff out back and next day found a couple of caterpillars on my brassicas looked like they were melting/rotting? Too squishy. Found a healthy specimen of same species out front, not that squishy.

As for the insects in the soil. Im not sure if I got em with fungi or not. I've seen the odd aphid and whitefly, there's a plague of them next door Some mean fucker predator mites (big caramel uns that stick like crabs ) have moved in on one citrus leaf next door, the rest of the tree is green black and white in about equal portions with flies scales sooty mould and aphids. I'm watching if/how they spread from there.

Go the Caramels! <- Hot cheerleaders to maintain interest.

Unfortunately, I don't think these mites care for the whitefly, that'd be too good to be true. I'll let em settle in over there then throw a few hundred in the greenhouse see if they can take the heat.

I think they want me to fix the tree hehe, mad science first, and when the plague hits me and I have 3 leaves of mites to defend it, I will absolve any knowledge or responsibility.

Fungi books, I think I'll get Mycelium Running for starters, and the rest later, times are tough...

Life is sweet.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Bump

My bad.. I have been hit and miss with the forums these past two years.

I posted a bunch of links in another thread before I saw the google link to this one.
I did search on icmag but not well.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2023294#post2023294



Way interesting.

My mind ponders just what "home made char will be best"

Real interesting.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Yes fungus! I found some today under a tree.

Does this look like the right stuff? A good few scoops have gone into compost and next potting mix.


Have your books arrived yet Fista?

Hey Jack! Glad you found your way here! I think charring in a tin inside a tin like Fista does is the way to go. Havnt tried yet as i have plenty in my compost etc.

Heres an update of my side by sides:

These babies are neck and neck. No real difference except the one in LC's #1 is bit bushier and i got two good clones off the bottom and only one from my TP mix. They are fed same nutes.



These 3 are coming along nicely. TP is lil bit in front of LC's#1. My other plant in last seasons mix is just behind but looks smaller cos its pot is... Awesome!

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

I have transplanted some of my TP ladies... Compared to previous transplants from same size there are more fine and fuzzy lookin roots.

\

Here they are sitting next to same batch in soiless mix. They have formed into bit more hydro lookin roots... they have been in poly box to save on water and catch the runoff/rain... also with lil bit of charcoal in the mix.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

Charcoal rocks!

Charcoal rocks!

Check this out. My identical clones are very different beneath the surface. Both fed the exact same and watered in a tray to catch runoff... passive hydro i believe its called...






Plant on right is my TP mix. Plant on left LC's #1. You can see its the healthier plant and its root system is much happier. I should have a few cm of perlite in bottom of pots but the benefits of charcoal and the crushed up pottery/bones/shells is obvious. :

 

[jaykush]

three cheers for terra preta!

 

[DocLeaf]

Cool thread

We practise this method outdoors on our food-crops. More recenetly we started adding wood-ash to our guano-tea for similar reasons. Will keep yo all updated.