Terra Preta - Dark Soil - Experiment

[JackTheGrower]

The trash aspect makes sense to me.. Everything tossed into a heap and recycled..

Q: would burning human waste be better than composting it? Not for the soil but for the community..
They would have to deal with a lot of human waste in a crowded area like a big community would be.

 

[onegreenday]

so much vegetation around, no need for human feces fuel.
So humid there feces might not dry enough.
If sun dried big bug problem.

'turtle island indians' burned 'dried' buffalo dung.

In that climate they might have composted all human excrement & covered with
wood ash to keep insects off, as practiced in ancient times.

EDIT: If the pottery chips are as widespread as purported;
it would point to more than a garbage dump; besides they had little 'garbage'........

 

[onegreenday]

Fungi involved w/ terra preta

Fungi involved w/ terra preta

fungi involved with terra preta

http://www.oeb.harvard.edu/faculty/pringle/pubs/Bever et al 2001 BioScience.pdf


Historically, ecologists focused on interspecific
competition as the critical factor structuring plant communities.
Interactions between plants, however, are likely to
be mediated by myriad interactions with soil organisms
(Bever et al. 1997). The vast majority of plants, for example,
take up nutrients through interactions with root symbionts.
Of these root symbionts, arbuscular mycorrhizal (AM) fungi
are perhaps the most common, likely forming associations
with the majority of plant species, and are probably among
the most important because they facilitate plants’ uptake of
phosphorus, a limiting nutrient in many soils.

 

[JackTheGrower]

fungi involved with terra preta

http://www.oeb.harvard.edu/faculty/pringle/pubs/Bever et al 2001 BioScience.pdf




Historically, ecologists focused on interspecific
competition as the critical factor structuring plant communities.
Interactions between plants, however, are likely to
be mediated by myriad interactions with soil organisms
(Bever et al. 1997). The vast majority of plants, for example,
take up nutrients through interactions with root symbionts.
Of these root symbionts, arbuscular mycorrhizal (AM) fungi
are perhaps the most common, likely forming associations
with the majority of plant species, and are probably among
the most important because they facilitate plants’ uptake of
phosphorus, a limiting nutrient in many soils.

I'm not getting it.. Chelting seems more reasonable.. Can you clarify?

My first guess is the metal aspect in the pottery.

Antifungal potential of some transition metal - chelates of p-amino-salycylic acid (PAS).

http://www.ijpsonline.com/searchres...es=10&journal=Y&but_search=++Go++&type=A&pg=1

I mean it's wet and low oxygen wouldn't aerobic want some help?? Wouldn't that make for a super soil under those conditions?


Jack

 

[onegreenday]

they are still studying the terra preta and it covers a wide range
and covers vast areas.

Cornell has a vast file of terra preta stuff.

One person claims they dug trenches for terra preta; another says they made
raised bed (because of flooding) with terra preta .

lots of theory nothing real definitive.

we know that fungi play a huge part in the terra preta soils
as all our soils.

 

[jaykush]

they are still studying the terra preta and it covers a wide range
and covers vast areas.

One person claims they dug trenches for terra preta; another says they made
raised bed (because of flooding) with terra preta .

i dont think we will ever be able to recreate terra preta in the full, no matter how much research we do. we might create something similar with the similar results maybe.

then again both of them are right about the trenches and raised beds. different areas might require different methods just like today. maybe some areas did need raised agriculture and others in trenches for some reason.


all i know is what we have so far is good stuff, and it can only get better.

 

[JackTheGrower]

http://www.pottingblocks.com/history.html

This offers some ideas.. Since they take time to dig up the compost and distribute it around..

Maybe the terra preta people didn't bother to dig it up after a while or found they didn't need to?

 

[Kaneh]

Mulcahy mentioned in an article they got the mandate to produce 1,4 million stoves to be placed in saunas in Finland.

That's Bullshit!
But Luciastove is still very interesting, and would indeed be very usefull in Finland. But there's long way before anything changes in our Saunas! LOL!
Maybe couple Saunas could chance to that (I'm sure it's better than electric) but all of them (1.5 million) ...Not in this century.

But Ripman, I think you should open thread about Luciastove as you mentioned. Maybe we can continue there?
Are they available? Possible to use indoors?

That 27 € backpacking stove would be perfect in so many ways!

 

[jaykush]

heres a bump for TP. and just for the hell of it, some homemade biochar.

 

[Tilt]

I mixed some terra pretta up With hydroton and bone meal. It is cooking in a tub I will start some experiments within a couple of months. Should I water it with my left over tea?

 

[jaykush]

what kind of tea?

 

[Tilt]

ewc molasses & kelp tsp kellogs orcganic fert 4/6/3 npk

 

[jaykush]

sure go for it. just remember that the char holds nutrients, so when it comes time to grow. you wont have to feed as much if at all for some time.

 

[BioMechanical]

Pretty good read here - Gardening with Biochar FAQ - http://biochar.pbworks.com/

I'm going to be trying my first biochar mix out pretty soon. I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Peat - 25%
Compost - 25%
Worm Castings - 15%
Biochar - 10%
Perlite - 25%

Now I just have to figure out how to amend this base so I only have to water

 

[jaykush]

do you plan on using that mix for seedlings/clones? or as a veg/flower mix? how long are you going to let it sit before using it? what amendments do you have?

 

[BioMechanical]

do you plan on using that mix for seedlings/clones? or as a veg/flower mix? how long are you going to let it sit before using it? what amendments do you have?

Hi Jay, thanks for your reply. I am hydro guy converting to organics so I don't have much experience with this soil game yet, but I have been doing a lot of reading.

And I thought I could possibly use just the base for seedlings, and then transplant into the base + amendments for veg/flower. Up potting as I go along of course.

As far as cooking time, I thought maybe a month? sound good? I actually got interested in the char because I plan to try to recycle my medium 3LB style, and I was kind of assuming that my mix would improve over time and get better and better with each subsequent grow. But I realize to do this properly I would have to have a couple of different batches of soil ... one for the current grow, while the other cooks. Correct? I just wasn't sure the char would be worth the trouble if I was only going to use the soil once ya know what I mean?

Anyways, I have been picking up some amendments in preparation for the switch to soil. Actually I have been getting really good deals on EBAY of all places. HA! So so far I have:

- powdered dolomite lime
- Alfalfa meal
- blood meal
- bone meal
- kelp meal
- Green Sand
- Rock phosphate
- Azomite
- powdered humic acid

My only problem is that I have read literally read dozens of stoner soil mixes, and they tend to contradict each other really bad as far as application rates are concerned. So I don't really have a good feel for how to properly amend a soil with ferts.

My main goal is to NOT use bottled ferts, to have all my nutes in the ground, and to just water with EWC tea and molasses and perhaps liquid karma. How B1 does it.

Anyways sorry to ramble, I have had 3 cups of coffee already

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

High everybody

Really happy the discussion is keepin on keepin on!

I have been introduced to the OBBT or BioBox as i prefer to call it. See my sig for more info. It is a most excellent combo of organic dirt and hydro... I highly recommend you check it out.

I have used some of my terra preta mix in the medium and this is an ideal method for incorporating all manner of dry organic nutes and teas.

In the bottom of the BioBox is a layer of hydroton which is the res ( + hydro roots) with an airstone... how do you think it might go using chunks of biochar instead of the hydroton or lava rocks other users favour?? I think it may work quite excellently

You would like the BioBox for sure BioMechanical!! It allows you to premix the nutes with no worries...

 

[jaykush]

Hi Jay, thanks for your reply. I am hydro guy converting to organics so I don't have much experience with this soil game yet, but I have been doing a lot of reading.

thats cool, the best way to learn is reading, and actually trying it. i suggest if you want to experiment, try growing a non illegal plant in the soil first.

And I thought I could possibly use just the base for seedlings, and then transplant into the base + amendments for veg/flower. Up potting as I go along of course.

for seedlings i use compost + perlite + sand + char soaked in compost tea. simple yet effective.

As far as cooking time, I thought maybe a month? sound good? I actually got interested in the char because I plan to try to recycle my medium 3LB style, and I was kind of assuming that my mix would improve over time and get better and better with each subsequent grow. But I realize to do this properly I would have to have a couple of different batches of soil ... one for the current grow, while the other cooks. Correct? I just wasn't sure the char would be worth the trouble if I was only going to use the soil once ya know what I mean?

recycling soil + terra preta = gold. you are right, but you dont NEED two batches of soil it just helps make things A LOT easier on you and the plants. i highly reccomend it if possible. yea i understand, if using the soil once, you dont reap the full benefits of the char.

My only problem is that I have read literally read dozens of stoner soil mixes, and they tend to contradict each other really bad as far as application rates are concerned. So I don't really have a good feel for how to properly amend a soil with ferts.

thats because there is no perfect mix, you base your mix on what you have, and the amount of amendments is based on what amendments you have. as well as your environment, someone in a cold moist environment wont want a mix that holds water forever, unlike someone who grows in a desert where water conservation is key to success. really you just need to understand what each amendment does and how it works. from then on its basically common sense, and getting to know your soil over time.

My main goal is to NOT use bottled ferts, to have all my nutes in the ground, and to just water with EWC tea and molasses and perhaps liquid karma. How B1 does it.

even if you plan to have everything in your soil, i would still have slight backups for watering in. you dont have to go buy a bottle or anything, for example if your in veg and you need a boost of N. you can take that alfalfa meal, soak in water, strain, dilute and apply. once you get used to growing in soil and know your soil, growing without additional feeding will become easier and easier.

point being, take your time. it will pay off in the long run.

 

[BioMechanical]

Thanks guys! Soil is fun, and I haven't bought any yet

even if you plan to have everything in your soil, i would still have slight backups for watering in. you dont have to go buy a bottle or anything, for example if your in veg and you need a boost of N. you can take that alfalfa meal, soak in water, strain, dilute and apply. once you get used to growing in soil and know your soil, growing without additional feeding will become easier and easier.

Thanks for the good info Jay. I forgot to mention that I did buy that international house of guanos kit to make Vonforne's tea recipes should the need arise to supplement my soil mix. So I think I will be good.

Anyways, thanks again for your time!

 

[jaykush]

guanos work just as good as a top dressing.

just wondering where are you getting your char?