I considered a stainless wort cooler coil, but commercial after coolers are relatively inexpensive. Here was our $141 solution.
http://www.cpsproducts.com/product/recovery-MT69/
Terpenator Solvent: Iso-butane vs N-butane
- Thread starter Breakover
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I considered a stainless wort cooler coil, but commercial after coolers are relatively inexpensive. Here was our $141 solution.
http://www.cpsproducts.com/product/recovery-MT69/
Breakover
Member
Oh dang, I was really looking forward to building one!
As always, thank you for all your r and d, and thank you for sharing!
Almost for got to mention:
We are having a little issue with lack of head pressure on the tank making the initial column fill take a bit longer, probably doesn't help we're using 74 micron screen gaskets either... To solve this, we actually dump a second or two worth of liquid right into the pot so it will vaporize and be recovered by the appion and returned to the tank, giving us a bit more head on the tank. Although we occasionally did it by accident, we never thought we'd be intentionally dumping liquid into the pot like that.
As always, thank you for all your r and d, and thank you for sharing!
Almost for got to mention:
We are having a little issue with lack of head pressure on the tank making the initial column fill take a bit longer, probably doesn't help we're using 74 micron screen gaskets either... To solve this, we actually dump a second or two worth of liquid right into the pot so it will vaporize and be recovered by the appion and returned to the tank, giving us a bit more head on the tank. Although we occasionally did it by accident, we never thought we'd be intentionally dumping liquid into the pot like that.
You have exactly the setup i'm trying to get. The ice baths for the 50# tank sucks, ive got through like 15 bags of ice in 2 weeks. Guess i'll be moving my freezer out of the basement so i can use that. Good work and info man, cant wait to see the numbers. Im in eastern WA and can't find anywhere to test except seattle, so im jealous of your testing capabilities lol. Good idea with the couples second dump out liquid to get the pressure back up in the tank, that was my one thought with the freezer is that initial first run would be long due to the lower pressure in the tank
Breakover
Member
We ran through our share of ice last summer. We get a lot of snow here so winter was nice. A few shovels full and you're done. Once it started to melt, it was time to upgrade. We figure it will pay for itself this year.
If you do go with a freezer, I'd strongly recommend that you use convoluted stainless lines only. Rubber hoses crack at deep freeze temps, and I wouldn't trust the Teflon core stainless braid hose at those temps either.
Breakover
Member
Ya i got my MKIIIA after the snow melted, been using ice if i'm doing more than one run but if i'm only doing one run i found cold tap water works ok, does take a while on the last recovery after 5 passes.
Ya i figured those rubber hoses wouldn't do well in the freezer, and those SS lines look way more badass anyway lol. Thanks for the heads up! Where did you get yours from? They are pretty pricey lol
Breakover
Member
We found a place that has them pretty competitive with Teflon core braided.
After I overspent on the first set of course...
I think this is where we got them: http://www.flexicraft.com/Industrial_Hose/SB1/
Good information, thanks for sharing!
It makes sense, since the system is under vacuum and there is nothing to pump, using push pull, until some gas is present.
Here is an example of a wort cooler that I looked at, but was out of stock at the time.
http://www.midwestsupplies.com/stainless-steel-immersion-wort-chiller.html
What size hoses and price?
I will have to check local prices, but our local hero who had convoluted stainless lines made, paid more than $300, so you may have gotten a good deal.
We have already gone through several hose sets from gaskets starting to leak, so are currently using hoses from RSD which we can replace the gaskets in. Are your seals replaceable?
We are shopping for the best deal on a combustible gas detector to use after each setup, to detect gasket leaks.
We have already gone through several hose sets from gaskets starting to leak, so are currently using hoses from RSD which we can replace the gaskets in. Are your seals replaceable?
We are shopping for the best deal on a combustible gas detector to use after each setup, to detect gasket leaks.
Breakover
Member
There are no seals in my convo hoses, as far as i know. They're all metal, similar to a standard copper/brass flare fitting. JIC fittings are flared at 37 degrees and sae are 45 degrees, so a little 'umphf' gets them to seal tight metal to metal.both 1/4 and 1/2" jic fittings have the same thread pattern as their brass (sae) counterparts, but the 3/8" jic fittings have a different thread pattern than the sae, so they're not compatible.
We've also had leaks due to the Buna screen gaskets wearing out. We've decided to upgrade to 74 mic (200mesh) ptfe screen gaskets for the column. Theyre pricey and rubberfab takes forever to make them, but we arent taking any chances. We use a snap on gas detector. I got ours for under $400. Worth every penny, IMO.
How is the PTFE working out for you as far as ease of sealing?
I started with PTFE gaskets between the valve and collection tank and the valve and injection tee, but one Mk IIIA users complained of ongoing sealing problems, so we went back to the softer Buna-N, which takes less pressure to seal.
I started with PTFE gaskets between the valve and collection tank and the valve and injection tee, but one Mk IIIA users complained of ongoing sealing problems, so we went back to the softer Buna-N, which takes less pressure to seal.
Breakover
Member
So far so good. We've been using regular ptfe gaskets for column connections when we put our 24, 18, and 12 together to make a 54" column. They do take quite a bit more pressure to seal, so we get the clamps hand tight, then use a wrench to tighten another half turn or so. You definitely have to reef on the clamps a little bit, but the gaskets do hold pressure just fine. On the rare occasions that we have had a leak, it has always been on the connection with the buna screen gaskets.
So I recently got to move everything to a dedicated space, that will soon be worth taking pics of but we are still setting everything up. They have 2 8oz tamisium extractors. Which my one mkiiia is putting to shame lol. The whole hot cold transfer method sucks lol....
I'm wondering how I can hook up my #50 tank to them along with the recovery pump. My idea is to put a male quick connect on the end of a ss convoluted hose coming from the #50 tank in a freezer to the top of the tamisiums column. Then put a female quick connect on the 3/8th hose to the recovery pump. I'll also need a female quick connect hose for my vacuum to vacuum the whole system down which they don't do right now and it freaks me out lol.
What is everyone's thoughts on the quick connections? Are they safe? So far it's been working for them. I'm wondering what type of hoses come with the tamisium, they look like ss convoluted but I'm not too sure since I'm still new to all of this. They have been keeping everything in the freezer and they don't have any leaks so far so they might be convoluted.
Trying to get all three systems kicking out product all day, so any help would be great. I'm still trying to figure out what all these threads are also so help with that would be great lol.
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Quick disconnects are good things as long as they work. Best used in conjunction with a ball valve. Visit any factory during a shutdown and listen to the air leaks from quick disconnects.
I don't use them because they restrict the flow and slow down recovery. They do keep you from losing the butane that is in the hose when you disconnect. You can get hoses with an automatic check in the end that will do the same thing.
Tamisium uses good hoses, so they are probably safe.
If you connect your hose from the recovery pump intake to the lower tank, instead of the top of the column, it will recover faster. Connect the hose to the red liquid valve on the tank, and it will bubble the recovered vapors through the butane in the tank, helping cool and condense it.
Hee, hee, hee, you have to give Dave credit for listening and paying attention when the Lil Terp was upon him and he understood the issue with the Tamisium's small tank opening. Look at the full opening tank that he is offering now!
I don't use them because they restrict the flow and slow down recovery. They do keep you from losing the butane that is in the hose when you disconnect. You can get hoses with an automatic check in the end that will do the same thing.
Tamisium uses good hoses, so they are probably safe.
If you connect your hose from the recovery pump intake to the lower tank, instead of the top of the column, it will recover faster. Connect the hose to the red liquid valve on the tank, and it will bubble the recovered vapors through the butane in the tank, helping cool and condense it.
Hee, hee, hee, you have to give Dave credit for listening and paying attention when the Lil Terp was upon him and he understood the issue with the Tamisium's small tank opening. Look at the full opening tank that he is offering now!
This was my thought, they have 2 seals but i can seen those eventually wearing out, and these quick disconnects are not cheap lol.
I'll have to look into these hoses, have any supplier suggestions??
It does say on their site they are teflon core tubes, should i worry about these cracking on the inside over time??
My butane supply line coming from the #50 tank would be connected to the top of the column and the recovery pump connected to the recovery port on the collection pot. Is this correct??? I'm confused on how to recover the butane from the collection pot through the #50 tank then back to the #50 tank. Or maybe i just am reading what you're saying wrong.. I'm not going to be using their butane storage tanks since i'll just use my refrigerant scale when filling and recovering with the #50 tank.
Ya but i don't know why he still went with the non removable bottom, makes scraping the wall a pain. With the 6" spool i just flip it on the side and a few rotations later its all scraped up.
We buy our Kobra hoses with checks at RSD refrigeration supply.
Any elastomer will degrade over time, but the Teflon should last a few years.
Recovery should be as easy as connecting the intake hose from your recovery pump, to the tank port on the Tamisium and the discharge from the pump, to the red valve on the 50# tank. Set the recovery tank in ice water and the extraction tank in 110F water.
You can recover from the valve at the top of the column, but it will have to pull the vapors through the packed column, so it is easier to just recover directly from the lower tank.
Yeah, David missed a good opportunity to make a removable bottom as well, but there is still time if he hears the demand often enough.
Part of his reluctance to use a standard 6" sanitary spool, may be that it would make his parts obtainable from others and he would lose the high markup. If you have one of his wide mouth bottoms, a standard 6" spool with clamped on bottom should fit, should you decide to retrofit.
So I cleaned my #50 tank today. I cleaned it because I noticed it was leaking where the valves screw into the tank, just barley though, i had water up around the valves an noticed a few bubbles coming from the threads, they only seal the top of the threads with some sealant. I'm going to put yellow thread tape on it so it doesn't leak anymore. Also The inside was pretty gross, maybe rust? I don't know but i washed it out with iso and soapy water, i hope that got most of it. They oil I've been making has been awesome and very smooth so I don't think it was contaminating the oil. Ordering another one today or tomorrow, to keep more butane in as a storage tank, almost want to order 2 so I have a new one for running with.
And ya I'm going to the hardware store today to get the connections to start running the tamisiums with the recovery pump. Then I can compare the two machines even though I already know the mkiii is better, i mean damn look how many more valves it has, heh heh... Ill be recovering though the vapor port on the bottom recovery pot and pulling butane from the #50 tank though the top valve on the column, that should speed up these things instead of taking 6-8 hours for one run lol.
Lately with the mkiii I run 1lb of butane every pass and do 5 passes, as long as my tank is cold the whole run takes about 45 min plus prep & clean up about 45 also since I'm slow lol. But 1.5 hours a run is pretty good i think. The refrigerant scale is a must, I wouldn't even run this machine without it for fear of overfilling or something, because I counted too long or something. With the scale I know exactly what I'm running and recovering.
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And ya I'm going to the hardware store today to get the connections to start running the tamisiums with the recovery pump. Then I can compare the two machines even though I already know the mkiii is better, i mean damn look how many more valves it has, heh heh... Ill be recovering though the vapor port on the bottom recovery pot and pulling butane from the #50 tank though the top valve on the column, that should speed up these things instead of taking 6-8 hours for one run lol.
Lately with the mkiii I run 1lb of butane every pass and do 5 passes, as long as my tank is cold the whole run takes about 45 min plus prep & clean up about 45 also since I'm slow lol. But 1.5 hours a run is pretty good i think. The refrigerant scale is a must, I wouldn't even run this machine without it for fear of overfilling or something, because I counted too long or something. With the scale I know exactly what I'm running and recovering.
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