Team Microbe's Living Soil Laboratory

[Team Microbe]

Coconut water and seed sprout tea applied right before topping sounds like a good strategy for my growing style.

good one

 

[heady blunts]

TM the reason I asked about the oyster shell powder in your worm bedding is I am curious about the liming effect of 1 cup per cubic foot of bedding when you have no acidic components to compensate.

there are calcium inputs you could use that do not affect pH...

 

[Siskiyou]

Humus and peat play largely different roles in a soil mix, though over time peat decomposes creating humus.

 

[Team Microbe]

TM the reason I asked about the oyster shell powder in your worm bedding is I am curious about the liming effect of 1 cup per cubic foot of bedding when you have no acidic components to compensate.

there are calcium inputs you could use that do not affect pH...

I don't think it matters much (I could be wrong), it's mainly there for it's calcium inputs just as crab shell meal is. If you were worried about it, you could go 2 cups crustacean meal and 0 cups oyster flour

 

[EclipseFour20]

I believe MM concluded that the microbial qualities of "sphagnum peat" were equal to--if not greater than what he found in "ancient forest" (and at a fraction of the price). You might ask him for clarification and exactly what he observed....and/or you can read what the science world has published regarding beneficial microbes that are naturally found (not inoculated by man) in "sphagnum peat".

But hey, what do I know?

 

[Team Microbe]

Calm down Eclipse lol

He said they play two different roles, which they do. I didn't see him mention anything about microbial colonies... are you about to start another one of your power trips again? If so, please take it to the organic forum where that sort of behavior is prevalent

 

[Polygon]

Anyone know of anywhere in the Seattle/surrounding county(s) area where one can grab a large amount of well made compost and/or vermicompost? I have my soil made up from this stuff from BC called 'Wonder Worm'... it's OMRI, don't really know how much that counts for anything, but it seems to be doing well. Just wondering if anyone knows of anywhere in the PNW that isn't too far off from Seattle that has some really high quality humus.

I would do a worm bin, but I don't really have the space to do so.


BTW: TM, I used the Buildasoil cloning method, worked like a charm. 100% showing substantial roots in 9 days across 6 different moms. So far since converting over to no till I've had to do much less with this grow and have been spending more time enjoying the garden instead of worrying about it as I was in soil-less and to a lesser extent, aeroponics.

 

[Team Microbe]

Anyone know of anywhere in the Seattle/surrounding county(s) area where one can grab a large amount of well made compost and/or vermicompost? I have my soil made up from this stuff from BC called 'Wonder Worm'... it's OMRI, don't really know how much that counts for anything, but it seems to be doing well. Just wondering if anyone knows of anywhere in the PNW that isn't too far off from Seattle that has some really high quality humus.

I would do a worm bin, but I don't really have the space to do so.


BTW: TM, I used the Buildasoil cloning method, worked like a charm. 100% showing substantial roots in 9 days across 6 different moms. So far since converting over to no till I've had to do much less with this grow and have been spending more time enjoying the garden instead of worrying about it as I was in soil-less and to a lesser extent, aeroponics.

http://olyfish.com/index.php/where-to-buy/

My buddy gets this stuff up in the PNW, I've used it before and I can say it's some of the best bagged compost out there. It's so rich and black, my plants loved it!

 

[Polygon]

http://olyfish.com/index.php/where-to-buy/

My buddy gets this stuff up in the PNW, I've used it before and I can say it's some of the best bagged compost out there. It's so rich and black, my plants loved it!

Well that makes me feel dumb. I'll get some tomorrow morning, gotta mix up some more dirt! Super cheap up here too!

 

[EclipseFour20]

Calm down Eclipse lol

He said they play two different roles, which they do. I didn't see him mention anything about microbial colonies... are you about to start another one of your power trips again? If so, please take it to the organic forum where that sort of behavior is prevalent

TM, if anyone is on a power trip...it is the guy you see in the reflection of your mirror. I don't have an ego that requires to be stroked or pampered daily. Below is what MM and CC said many years ago (before you were a member on ICMag)--

Actually peat bogs are swarming with microorganisms of many many types. Sphagnum peat moss almost always is packed with microbes. The types of microbes varies with location of harvest. The following shows one that is rich in fungi with some bacteria but some has a full compliment of the three major groups (bacteria/archaea, protozoa and fungi). Looking at this video tells me I must shoot some better examples.
http://microbeorganics.com/cansphagnum1.wmv

One would not expect to find soil microbes in coconuts. Isn't that what the coco stuff is made from?

And what your guru CC said in this closed thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=242301--

A couple of years ago Microbeman posted the results from comparing Premier Peat (from Premier Horticulture - the Pro-Mix company) against Alaska Magic (aka Alaska Humus, Denali Gold, GO Ancient Forest, et al.) here and he provided videos showing the various microbes and explains what you are looking at.

Recently MM completed another round of tests using Premier Peat (specifically) and the new video is here at YouTube.com for you to watch and learn.

So yes, the choice of Sphagnum peat moss does make a difference for organic gardeners. No question about that.

On a related note, I have a postulation on using straight Sphagnum peat moss vs. one of the potting soil blank mixes like Sunshine Mix (any one of their line) or Pro-Mix (again any one of their line) and these products are mixed at 60/65% Sphagnum and 35/40% of some aeration material which is more often than not is going to be Perlite

These mixes are designed to pop open the bale and use it as a base to add your humus and other amendments. In order to accomplish that the Sphagnum is beat to a pulp (literally) sprayed with some kind of wetting agent.

Why would they do that? Because 'moist' = 'freshness' to the ill-informed. Straight Sphagnum is minimally processed and therefore it doesn't feel or look 'fresh' - that's up to you the user. When you look closely at straight Sphagnum vs. the Sphagnum in a good base mix (like Sunshine or Pro-Mix) you'll see that consistency of the material is a primary goal - again if it's consistent and 'moist' then it must be really, really better, right?

Watch the videos and then ask Microbeman the level of differences between a raw material vs. one that has been beaten, hit with cold water vapors, cheap (i.e. piss-poor) wetting agents (surfactants) to appease the end user.

Same difference in the 'goodies' when using straight Alfalfa vs, Alfalfa pellets from PetSmart - ain't the same thing.

Watch. Learn. Ask Microbeman for a deeper explanation. He was kind enough 2 summers ago to test out Alaska Peat (the brand) after I noticed that the Premier Peat was harvested in North Alberta like Alaska Peat. I don't want to put misrepresent his testing but it's my clear recollection that he found Alaska Peat to be a good choice for a Sphagnum source.

HTH

CC

Links from CC's post that were not formated in the above quote--
http://www.microbeorganics.com/#Canadian_Sphagnum_Peat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7g5gqU7Qq0


I know, sometimes truth is hard to swallow. But, if MM or CC have changed their opinions, then please share with us what their current positions are. Sorry TM, you are wrong again...peat is full of microbial colonies, and that is according to MM--not me, Eclipse.

 

[Team Microbe]

Yeah, you're damn right they're full of microbe colonies lol. That's why I add a handful of sphagnum peat moss to my brews - for that exact reason; microdiversity. This doesn't mean it shares the same role as humus though, you most definitely need humus in that equation. Are you insinuating that you don't need humus or something? Why you buggin boo boo?! And what's this have anything to do with Siskiyou's post?

Humus and peat play largely different roles in a soil mix, though over time peat decomposes creating humus.

You need to read posts a little more carefully, so you don't sound like such an asshole all the time

 

[Team Microbe]

Well that makes me feel dumb. I'll get some tomorrow morning, gotta mix up some more dirt! Super cheap up here too!

You're not dumb at all man, sourcing products is an art almost that you eventually learn. I had Coast of Maine Lobster Compost not 5 miles from my house when I ordered a bunch of compost online a few years back. Spent like $500 on humus alone because I simply had no idea anyone around me had something that met my standards; it's usually just shitty compost by the yard around here made with town waste and all of those unwanteds. Sometimes a great product is right under your nose and you don't see it!

 

[EclipseFour20]

Let me explain Lucy, you said--

...There's no need for peat if you're creating humus IMO, quality inputs will always yield quality outputs so using a really rich finished compost will always yield the best results....

Yep, pretty much! The highest quality humus you can find/afford. Are you talking about the bagged AK humus? Or native humus?

Native would be good if you're doing this outside, but risks the potential of introducing unwanted critters that may be burrowing in the duff out there. The bagged AK forest humus is probably the best stuff you can use for this, but it's pretty pricey. The castings made from it would be priceless though, better than anything you can find online or in the grow store

To which I said--

I believe MM concluded that the microbial qualities of "sphagnum peat" were equal to--if not greater than what he found in "ancient forest" (and at a fraction of the price). You might ask him for clarification and exactly what he observed....and/or you can read what the science world has published regarding beneficial microbes that are naturally found (not inoculated by man) in "sphagnum peat".

But hey, what do I know?

Snarky you said--

Calm down Eclipse lol

He said they play two different roles, which they do. I didn't see him mention anything about microbial colonies.....

But then you evolved--

Yeah, you're damn right they're full of microbe colonies lol. That's why I add a handful of sphagnum peat moss to my brews - for that exact reason; microdiversity. ...

TM, I appreciate your youthful exuberance, but sometimes you need to remember, "The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know. (Socrates)"...the space between your two ears is limited, and so is the the knowledge contained within it. It will always be this way; it is a capacity problem--not from any defect. IMHO, you learn more things in life when/if you are tolerant to others having a different view point than yours--as opposed to surrounding one's self with a bunch of "yes men" (those that only share my views...and tell me only what I want to hear). Think "diversity".

I believe there is/will always be a role for sphagnum peat for containerized gardens--for both it's beneficial microbial and humus qualities. Just saying there is more to "peat" than "humus"...which is the point of my original post.

Glad you finally agreed with me: peat contain microbes and AgSil is not an approved soil/plant nutrition source for the organic fanatics (which I am not). Hmm, guess I am 2 for 2, but who's keeping score?

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I think I see a point of misunderstanding here.

E420 was referring to Microbeman's discussion of microflora in "sphagnum peat".

TM was referring to Siskiyou's comment regarding the separate roles of peat and humus in building a soil.

You've been talking past one another. But when each person enters a conversation expecting it to escalate into conflict, conflict will most likely result.

A good question might be, why is that the expectation here?

 

[Team Microbe]

Eclipse420 is one of LLB's trolls, it's that simple. He's intentionally de-railing this thread, and the more we talk about unrelated issues like this the more he will be fed what he wants. This guy is talked so poorly about over at Grasscity, it's so funny lol. Coots had some pretty comical things to say about him... I know that.

Eclipse420 - I never disagreed with you, you're just crazy LOL

Hmm, guess I am 2 for 2, but who's keeping score?

 

[Team Microbe]

I think I see a point of misunderstanding here.

E420 was referring to Microbeman's discussion of microflora in "sphagnum peat".

TM was referring to Siskiyou's comment regarding the separate roles of peat and humus in building a soil.

You've been talking past one another. But when each person enters a conversation expecting it to escalate into conflict, conflict will most likely result.

A good question might be, why is that the expectation here?

I'm not sure what goes through Eclipse420's head sometimes... it's just one of those things where you have to take it with a grain of salt because you never know what could be going on in his life or who he really is in person. He sounds like one of those bitter old men that you run into at the store and knock out after he gives you lip about the way you parked your car in the parking lot...

 

[Granger2]

He sounds like one of those bitter old men that you run into at the store and knock out after he gives you lip about the way you parked your car in the parking lot...

???!?!?!

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Eclipse420 is one of LLB's trolls, it's that simple. He's intentionally de-railing this thread, and the more we talk about unrelated issues like this the more he will be fed what he wants. This guy is talked so poorly about over at Grasscity, it's so funny lol. Coots had some pretty comical things to say about him... I know that.

Eclipse420 - I never disagreed with you, you're just crazy LOL

E420 stated that he didn't even know who LLB was.

I read the threads at GC. You guys should focus on discussing plants.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Oh TM, I think your growing skills are 10x better than your psychoanalytic skills; you are embarrassing yourself--so please stop making yourself look "cute" by trampling on my back...it ain't working.

If I wanted to troll you (as you suggest) and derail this thread, I think I could have done a better job and I promise you, it would have been locked up by now. LOL...nice try.

I still have no idea who this LLB person is--but it's cool, when all else fails....you seem to make shit up, right? Sad and very disappointing.

 

[Team Microbe]

E420 stated that he didn't even know who LLB was.

I read the threads at GC. You guys should focus on discussing plants.

Don't let him fool you lol

I agree!