Tea Article

[xmobotx]

as far as professionals go; no "professional" is reco'n foodstocks in a compost tea

that would make it a nutrient tea and microscope analysis proves excess nutes stifle microbe populations in a tea environ

let's try to stay civil in the meanwhile ~the whole 'how much molasses is too much K' discussion does bear some more consideration

 

[dizzlekush]

as far as professionals go; no "professional" is reco'n foodstocks in a compost tea

that would make it a nutrient tea and microscope analysis proves excess nutes stifle microbe populations in a tea environ

let's try to stay civil in the meanwhile ~the whole 'how much molasses is too much K' discussion does bear some more consideration

When I said "feedstocks", I meant feedstock for the microbes, not the plant. Otherwise Id call it fertilizer. 'Feedstock' would be incorrect terminology for the mineral inputs for the plant. Molasses is a 'feedstock'. Even though guanos and seaweeds are terrible microbial feedstocks, I included them because they are commonly used with the intention of being a feedstock.

I dont understand your vernacular "reco'n", all I could think of is recommending or reckoning.

 

[Microbeman]

Funny, since due to your answer I feel you are the one who doesn't understand what we're talking about.

1. Please explain the value of your underlined quote. How exactly does the plant control the tea's ecology when you brew the tea separate from the plant? Telekinesis? I fully understand that once the tea is applied to the rhizosphere, due to specificity of root exudates and soil chemistry, the plant can somewhat control what microbes it forms symbiosis with and can control their rate of production. We aren't talking about too much nutrients in the soil becoming available, we're talking about too much readily available potassium from the molasses in the tea that was made available by bacteria, archaea, and hyphae consuming the molasses and flagellates and amoebae eating the bacteria, archaea, and hyphae and essentially shitting it all out. All this was done at an incredibly accelerated rate with unnaturally amplified microbial density completely uncontrolled by the plant and its exudates. So where is the relevance of your quote?

2. To call something "sphagnum peat moss humus" is redundant, call it peat or humus, no professional does both. Technically peat is usually less degraded and from a single source (e.g. sphagnum moss or coconut husk) while humus is usually more degraded than peat and is made up of a variety of decomposed stock materials. But as MM has made the public aware, many products being sold as 'humus' are identical to products being mined from the same area and being sold as 'peat'.

3. There is no such thing as alaska humus castings, castings refer to worm shit, and Alaska isn't known for its vermiculture.

4. You quoted that last bit as if it was quoted from MM. Either MM was high/tired/lethargic as hell when he wrote the last bit, or you quoted it from something else. Even though its only 2 sentences, its misuse of phrases is staggering. Please quote more responsibly.

Okay, I was hoping not to need to post in this discussion but here goes;

1/ True that molasses is rich in many compounds. The reason why it is such a good bacterial/archaeal and fungal food and why I use it in a bioreactor situation (a compost tea brewer). Have you outlined what the actual percentage of soluble potassium is in molasses? Not much I would venture.

Regardless, if I ate lots of molasses and absorbed lots of potassium by doing so and I am eaten by a bear or cougar....your choice, does this mean that the bear's shit will be rich in potassium? Or does it depend on the bear's metabolism and possibly his potassium requirements?

On the 0.75% molasses, you should know I recommend using 0.50% or less unless one is experienced or equipped.

There are many who believe that 'ACT' or a microbial extrapolation [sic] processes the ingredients used to feed the bacteria/archaea and fungi for the plant to use.

This is not (necessarily) the case at all. Those minor amounts of food (less than 1%) are only to feed the microbes which live in the [vermi]compost. They have extreme minimal residual effect in the soil. If anything does, it is what is left from the [vermi]compost.

Everyone has to stop thinking that what is used in ACT, is for the plants....not.

Once the microbes are in the soil, they rapidly come under the sphere of influence of the soil. This is why I have no trouble using a microbial extrapolation (ACT) with almost every watering.

The danger lies in those who do not give the process time to complete. Do you still smell molasses in your ACT? Don't use it! It has yet to be consumed.

Peat and humus are two different things, entirely. Sphagnum peatmoss is partially degraded plant(s) matter with some humus in it. Calling Alaska humus, humus is a little farfetched as well.

Humus is commonly accepted in the science world as severely degraded organic matter, although some give it leeway to be non-covalent bonded while others strictly adhere to the unique polymer bond structures. I'm in between the two..hehe.

That many are referring to their compost project or vermicompost as humus, is slightly repulsive to me but I've been tolerating it.

Dizzle; You are correct that I am guilty of some pretty sloppy writing there. I make it sound like nematodes divide...they lay eggs. I also put 'quality compost or casting' in parentheses as an after thought and not related to Alaska. They were meant as separate entities which can sequester nutrients. There are however plenty of fine people raising worms in Alaska.

I really don't know why you jumped on Darc?

 

[xmobotx]

recommending

there are plenty of misunderstandings w/ regard to compost tea & the most common is the addition of nutrients

the best compost tea is going to be water, compost &, molasses ~to some degree, kelp seems to be OK but slows the process

anything beyond that makes it a nute tea & not likely to bring much in the way of favorable micro-biology

since what we embrace here in organic soil is living organics {feed the soil not the plant} a "nute tea" makes little sense ~the soil has everything it needs and we just want to inoculate it/keep it alive w/ microbes

of course; it's still 'organic' even buying bottles from the store. And, buying those silly concoctions referenced as "nutrient tea" or, "compost tea" in the little bag doesn't deviate from 'organic' but; how living is that thing going to be sitting on a store shelf for however long?

 

[Microbeman]

1 gal = 3,785.411784 ml x 0.75% = 28.39058838 ml
1 tablespoon = 14.786764781 ml

28.39058838 ~ 14.786764781 = 1.92

Teach your granny to suck eggs

 

[dizzlekush]

I really don't know why you jumped on Darc?

Just this

i feel you dont quite understand what quality compost is,how real humus rich mineral soil works or what it is were doing with ACT

The combination of "i feel you dont quite understand" (followed by a list of things I understand fairly well) with the smiley made it seem very condescending to me. That coupled with his lack of understanding the differences between the situation where the microbial ecology is controlled by root exudates and rhizosphere chemistry and the uncontrolled multiplication that happens in a 'bioreactor', as you prefer to call it. Just sent me over the edge, not saying it was a logical response. My emotional outbursts are usually anything but.

1 gal = 3,785.411784 ml x 0.75% = 28.39058838 ml
1 tablespoon = 14.786764781 ml

28.39058838 ~ 14.786764781 = 1.92

Teach your granny to suck eggs

Lol im an idiot. It's been at least 5 years since I looked at my volumetric conversions. I thought 1 TBSP was 15 ml exactly. My bad MM, should have figured you got the math right.

 

[OrganicBuds]

dam you guys amaze me. I have been studying this stuff for years, and just when I feel I have a good feel for things, you guys have a conversation that is 40ft over my head. You guys are giants, I am just a squirrel trying to get a nut.

If I can add anything: I have given my plants ACT every watering at high levels. I am talking 50gal a week for 12 plants. I have never seen my plants react in a negative way when I stick to MM's recipe. The only thing I have noticed is I need to keep my N levels high, and I suspect that is because of the high demand the micro life has on N.

 

[TeaFreak]

Ya no kiddin OB. I certainly feel privileged to be in here posting with all you guys.

I'm a little confused though. I keep seeing MM and others say that brewing the guanos in my tea is bad. I'm basically following BurnOne's plan and getting what I think is good results and that's 4 to 5 oz happy plants with normal veg times and no co2 or crazy stuff. Should I be mentally preparing myself for the possibility that I've been wasting my time brewing this way? Or should I quit worrying about it?

I'm just afraid I'm going to get my microscope and not see anything movin around in there. I've already resigned to the fact that I'm not gonna know what the fuck I'm looking at but that's why I'm here, learning from the pro's.

 

[DARC MIND]

Nice straw man argument, but you didn't address any of my points. Plenty of people advise the use of guanos and extracts. Molasses is a plant extract, which i guess you somehow weren't aware of. Plenty use and suggest seaweed extracts in their teas. I could name the 5 most sold teas and they all have guano in them (e.g. Budswel and Pure Blend Grow and Bloom), you even said 'guano tea' 3 posts ago, you f**king hypocrite. Now i know guano doesn't help microbial density because I've read all the material you have and guess what, I actually have a microscope and test my own brews

nice choice of words and thanks for the neg rep friend
i refered guano tea to the high K tea's known to be used today,in hope of sheding light on the diference between ACT & your 5 most sold tea's or burn1 recipes

as for belittling
i recall asking what kind of compost was used heh & to answer you Q ill qoute our "beloved MM"

There are many who believe that 'ACT' or a microbial extrapolation [sic] processes the ingredients used to feed the bacteria/archaea and fungi for the plant to use.

This is not (necessarily) the case at all. Those minor amounts of food (less than 1%) are only to feed the microbes which live in the [vermi]compost. They have extreme minimal residual effect in the soil. If anything does, it is what is left from the [vermi]compost.

 

[Microbeman]

Ya no kiddin OB. I certainly feel privileged to be in here posting with all you guys.

I'm a little confused though. I keep seeing MM and others say that brewing the guanos in my tea is bad. I'm basically following BurnOne's plan and getting what I think is good results and that's 4 to 5 oz happy plants with normal veg times and no co2 or crazy stuff. Should I be mentally preparing myself for the possibility that I've been wasting my time brewing this way? Or should I quit worrying about it?

I'm just afraid I'm going to get my microscope and not see anything movin around in there. I've already resigned to the fact that I'm not gonna know what the fuck I'm looking at but that's why I'm here, learning from the pro's.

If it works for you then use it. It may just not be compost tea but more of a nutrient tea.

 

[dizzlekush]

Have you outlined what the actual percentage of soluble potassium is in molasses? Not much I would venture.

Regardless, if I ate lots of molasses and absorbed lots of potassium by doing so and I am eaten by a bear or cougar....your choice, does this mean that the bear's shit will be rich in potassium? Or does it depend on the bear's metabolism and possibly his potassium requirements?

There are many who believe that 'ACT' or a microbial extrapolation [sic] processes the ingredients used to feed the bacteria/archaea and fungi for the plant to use.

This is not (necessarily) the case at all. Those minor amounts of food (less than 1%) are only to feed the microbes which live in the [vermi]compost. They have extreme minimal residual effect in the soil. If anything does, it is what is left from the [vermi]compost.

The main reasons for using compost tea are;
1/ to provide a quick nutrient kick to the rhizosphere. This works mainly because as the flagellates (protozoa) consume the *bacteria/archaea they utilize only 10 to 40% of the energy intake for their sustenance and the remaining 60 to 90% is expelled as ionic form nutrient which is directly bio-available to the roots of the plants. This is known as ‘the microbial nutrient loop (cycle)’.

MM I guess Im confused by what you're claiming, as your claims seem to be contradictory to me. So does most of the K from the molasses get shat out by protozoa from microbial predation in ionic form, readily available to the plant (the 60-90% as you claim); or does most of the K remain locked inside living cells or unmetabolized molasses, unavailable to the plant? You seem to claim its both and neither, but that's probably just my misunderstanding. That gram of potassium in every 20ml of blackstrap molasses doesn't just disappear.

As I understand it a brew that's <30 hours old couldn't be considered heavy in plant available K since protozoa density hasn't reached the levels required to consume much of the bacteria, archaea and hyphae to excrete the K as ionic waste. However a 36-48 hour brew could have significant levels of plant available whatever (we've been singling out K so far) due to microbial predation reaching significant levels.

What am I missing here?

 

[Microbeman]

Look; I stated it very simply so everyone could understand with the bear shit analogy. Who f*ing says that ANY F*ing Potassium at ALL gets translated into available plant nutrient. I have never ever ever said this. Read my page again.

Also you did not even provide legitimate foundation that there is soluble potassium to begin with.

I've never said that the ingredients used to feed/multiply microbes are directly translated to the plants through predation. I've always, always, always said that the nutrients are altered and passed down in a different form for the next organism.

For example; that potassium could translate to nitrogen.

You know I'm trying to stop posting here. Why did you ask this here if you are actually trying to learn rather than piss me off? Sorry for the tirade but I'm tired of this.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Potassium in blackstrap molasses is only 3g per 100 g.This not so much as in some K added fertilizers.My question is still if the use of beet vinasse is a good replacement for molasses.

Keep on growing

 

[xmobotx]

to some degree; the sugars are what the microbes "eat" but there are complexities to molasses which make it better suited than simple sugar & beet vinesse {depending on the source} may share similar complexities

your best bet to be certain is to scope a tea using the vinesse

similarly; there are caveats w/ buying molasses & likely there would be vinesse sources that are not suitable

 

[BugJar]

So what Fungi are you guys hoping to culture up in the AACT?

saprophytic?

the fungal side of aact has remained somewhat of a mystery to me.

 

[DARC MIND]

hmmm
any that are in my compost,leaf mold or casting i guess
decomposing, nutrient cycling fungi is what i would hope to culture

imo its easier to trust in quality compost/casting with ther natural occurring beneficials and use proper mycorrhizal spores in the soil.

 

[BugJar]

hmmm
any that are in my compost,leaf mold or casting i guess
decomposing, nutrient cycling fungi is what i would hope to culture

imo its easier to trust in quality compost/casting with ther natural occurring beneficials and use proper mycorrhizal spores in the soil.

including indigenous microflora is awesome and I am behind that but I was just wondering if there are any more highly beneficial fungi other that mycorrhizae that us laypeople should consider.

any info on types and function would be really nice.

 

[Granger2]

3 gm/100g=3%

BioBizz nutrient line is Beet Molasses based. Beet vinesse should work fine a microbe food. Good luck. -granger

 

[VortexPower420]

Also something to note about beet sugars is that much of the sugar beets are GMO. As far as I know sugar cane is still good. (who knows how long till they are too)

Buying only organic will solve the GMO issue...

Also to call yourself a organic gardener you need to. Other wise were are lying to other people and yourself. A big no no in my book.

Timbuktu

 

[BugJar]

Also something to note about beet sugars is that much of the sugar beets are GMO. As far as I know sugar cane is still good. (who knows how long till they are too)

Buying only organic will solve the GMO issue...

Also to call yourself a organic gardener you need to. Other wise were are lying to other people and yourself. A big no no in my book.

Timbuktu

.

truth! it's either organic or not.

I feel lucky to be able to get organic molasses locally.