Tea Article

[SeaMaiden]

SM;

Your interprtation of what you call coastal (or not) is interesting. I live further from the actual coast than the park you noted, yet it is considered part of the coastal temperate rain forest. There is lots of literature regarding the issues with contemporary drier weather patterns impacting temperate rain forest zones, including those in California and Oregon.

I also have a sequoia growing in my yard as well as 100+ year old cedars. Usually in the summer the surface ground does go dry but moisture is retained below forest duff and deeper of course.

This in contrast to the myth which I believe was being addressed in the thread wherein, the soil in its entirety is recommended to dry out, thereby suposedly creating a better medium for uptake of nutrients. This is, I believe, commonly referred to as the 'dry-wet cycle'. It is unclear to me why you are applying the discussion of this 'myth' to other natural phenomenon which are not really the same.

I do believe the aspens are second in line as the largest living organism known. Who knows what else the Earth will reveal.

I thought I addressed that previously, Mm. Because I have not read "the grow books" I can't speak to them, hadn't a clue that any of this sort of advice came from these books. I was, initially, mostly playing devil's advocate, and that does tend to get some folks riled up.

To address your question more directly, *my* point is that here we are, looking to mimic natural systems, yet here are so many that are ready to throw out one of the natural cycles in many of these systems.

There are those who would argue that savannahs and grasslands are, as one of the more common ecotypes that is also quite abundant in flora and fauna, is a type to be mimicked in our cultivation practices. Knowing of California's (and many other desertified/similar states) water issues, which I think many folks in the north with much more rainfall tend to forget, I was hoping that someone might be willing to consider the idea that perhaps there's something else to the picture. Never mind whatever observations or basis for wet-dry cycles in cannabis cultivation originated. I wasn't actually trying to advise people one way or the other about allowing potted plants to dry out, simply suggesting another angle for those ideas.


If the argument is then going to become one of proving that I grow cannabis to any extent such as to be "allowed" to comment, well... we shall all find ourselves bereft there. At this point I will only allow my friends & family to know what I'm up to there. Given my recent experience, I'm sure you understand, yes?


What's coastal and what's not? I don't know, how do you define it?

I have spent the majority of my life in mostly coastal areas (Louisiana, southern California, Florida, Puerto Rico), as in within 50mi, or directly affected by the same weather patterns as the coast at the same time. When I lived in L.A. I was 25mi from the coast with a view to Catalina Island (on clear days, this *is* L.A. we're talking about here). I would think there has to be a cut-off point, but how it's defined, geologically, geographically, climatologically...? I'm going with how I have come to understand the state that's been my permanent home for 37 of my 49 years, at least. The differences, geologically, geographically, and climatologically, I experience and observe where I live as compared to where I spent most of my life are vast and incredible, and that is what I base my discussion here on.

 

[rrog]

Absent lab data, I turn to anecdotal. You might check out the Blumat thread here on IC. I think pretty much down to the last blumat poster, all agreed that plants did better when constantly, optimally moist. It's been mentioned many times on that thread that based on their experiences, wet / dry cycles are not as efficient as constantly moist, and microbically, that certainly seems to be very reasonable.

 

[forty]

Absent lab data, I turn to anecdotal. You might check out the Blumat thread here on IC. I think pretty much down to the last blumat poster, all agreed that plants did better when constantly, optimally moist. It's been mentioned many times on that thread that based on their experiences, wet / dry cycles are not as efficient as constantly moist, and microbically, that certainly seems to be very reasonable.

I could see the benefit of keeping a pot evenly moist on a drip type system as it might be difficult to get the entire root zone evenly moist after a "dry cycle". Keeping it moist would eliminate any surface tension that might occur if left to dry too much.

Hand watering large pots I had always believed (wether accurate or not) that by watering heavy would push air though the pot, out the bottom and pull fresh air/oxygen down to the roots. I watered in cycles similar to Dawn Patrol, a "dry" cycle was more of a lower moisture level cycle gauged by pot weight, not bone dry.

Anyway, interesting thoughts....

 

[Microbeman]

On the coastal thing, I was going with ecogeographic areas which have been mapped by professionals. This is what I reference for temperate rainforest regions.

I have not read "the grow books" I can't speak to them

That is the point I guess. No point discussing the 'myth' that you don't know.

Better to discuss the one you do ;>)

 

[somoz]

Not to get in the middle of this one but to offer one more point. We are talking about Redwoods that are planted in the Earth, their "pot" is the planet, their root system is more shallow than one would expect, but their roots still go down at least 10-15 ft and laterally as well. There is moisture below the surface soil and sometimes even springs, there's NOT a well underneath my 20 gallon smart pot.

I've come to the conclusion through my growing that if "it's dry they die" in soil formats. Bone dry coco is even more of a mess but that's not really pertinent to this thread.

 

[W89]

That is the point I guess. No point discussing the 'myth' that you don't know.

Better to discuss the one you do ;>)

LMAO!

 

[ClackamasCootz]

somoz

You might like this story about Giant Sequoias on the Oregon Coast - no stoner science was involved. Thankfully.

Ancient Redwoods, Giant Sequoias to be 'Archived' on Oregon Coast which led to this in December - Ancient Cloned Trees Planted to Begin New Forest of Redwoods

The photo essay in the 2nd link is pretty stunning......

CC

 

[BugJar]

I visit this park a few times a year (Jed). I would advise you to do so as well it is on the border of ca/or. and it is also one one of the most majestic rivers you can imagine.

 

[rrog]

If we could go back to the soil moisture / microbe dormancy discussion a moment, do microbes quickly go dormant when moisture levels drop? It would seem they would need to react quickly in order to survive the dessication.

Also, the ability to survive and reanimate would seem to involve some protective coating, which seems too complex (to me) for bacteria, etc. So it wouldn't surprise me that many microbes simply die and when rehydration comes along, the survivors simply reproduce rather than come out of dormancy.

 

[somoz]

Cootz

Thanks so much for posting those, I really enjoyed both. Archangel kicked the bottle to the curb, had a tree vision quest, and began his mission. It's pretty cool what they're attempting to do, and I'm very interested to see if their predications as far as vigor are correct---and if the tree thrives due to particular regions or it thrives because they're beasts. I also didn't know that %100 of the parents DNA stays with those Redwood clones.......wish I took some snips when I was down in Santa Cruz.

 

[rrog]

Dave Milarch! Almost my neighbor

 

[Microbeman]

That is the point I guess. No point discussing the 'myth' that you don't know.

Better to discuss the one you do ;>)

LMAO!

Not meant as harsh...just foolin around

 

[Microbeman]

If we could go back to the soil moisture / microbe dormancy discussion a moment, do microbes quickly go dormant when moisture levels drop? It would seem they would need to react quickly in order to survive the dessication.

Also, the ability to survive and reanimate would seem to involve some protective coating, which seems too complex (to me) for bacteria, etc. So it wouldn't surprise me that many microbes simply die and when rehydration comes along, the survivors simply reproduce rather than come out of dormancy.

RROG;

I've observed this through the microscope. If there is a relatively slow drying process taking place, I have observed microorganisms encysting or otherwise preparing for dormancy. I have observed microorganisms dying (often bursting) when drying takes place rapidly.

When rehydrating dried out compost, soil or sphagnum peatmoss, it usually takes over 48 hours to see microbial activity so one might assume that they go through a process of excysting (hatching out) and division.

 

[W89]

Not meant as harsh...just foolin around

I know bro

 

[W89]

RROG;

I've observed this through the microscope. If there is a relatively slow drying process taking place, I have observed microorganisms encysting or otherwise preparing for dormancy. I have observed microorganisms dying (often bursting) when drying takes place rapidly.

When rehydrating dried out compost, soil or sphagnum peatmoss, it usually takes over 48 hours to see microbial activity so one might assume that they go through a process of excysting (hatching out) and division.

That must be so cool to watch happen! I really need a microscope!

 

[rrog]

MM, thank you for your insight. Very interesting. What sort of organisms might be encysting? I'm having a hard time picturing bacteria doing this (not doubting), given all that they already do and their fast propagation rate. Maybe they clump and encyst. Clearly they can be airborne and re-populate an area, so they're doing something.

Nematodes I can better imagine.

I've been intrigued by the wet / dry cycling vs constant moist convo, and I guess validating that cycles aren't harmful, but maybe not maximally efficient. What's your thought on that MM? Would you choose cycling or constant?

 

[xmobotx]

That must be so cool to watch happen! I really need a microscope!

really!

been thinking it would be nice to rent 1 for about a week or 2

just want to confirm efficacy in my compost tea

oh; lol ~just visited the 'organics' {hydro} store & they have a newly un-crated vortex brewer on the floor. gotta admit it is a neat piece of equipment! i picture 'price is right' though when the curtain goes back and the announcer is all "a brand new car" would it really be as exciting if he was all 'a brand new vortex tea brewer!"?????????

i can see the ladies jumping up and down right now

kid's telling me how the other store has been brewing nutrient teas

kinda like using a lotus espirit to run one of those little lighter plug compressors

 

[Microbeman]

MM, thank you for your insight. Very interesting. What sort of organisms might be encysting? I'm having a hard time picturing bacteria doing this (not doubting), given all that they already do and their fast propagation rate. Maybe they clump and encyst. Clearly they can be airborne and re-populate an area, so they're doing something.

Nematodes I can better imagine.

I've been intrigued by the wet / dry cycling vs constant moist convo, and I guess validating that cycles aren't harmful, but maybe not maximally efficient. What's your thought on that MM? Would you choose cycling or constant?

The organisms which 'I see' encysting are protozoa. Nematodes are egg layers, so die. If you had my DVD set you would see a portion where a nematode has died before having the chance to lay her eggs. They hatched out inside her corpse and the babies are trapped...doomed.

I've not seen bacteria encysting but see them sporulating as homeostatic conditions change.

I keep the surface relatively moist unless there is a reason to let it dry. Sometimes the surface is kept moist while allowing the subsurface to be 'drier'....a light rainfall?

 

[Microbeman]

~just visited the 'organics' {hydro} store & they have a newly un-crated vortex brewer on the floor

Are they going to sell tea? Do they have a microscope?

 

[xmobotx]

Are they going to sell tea? Do they have a microscope?

i do get the impression they want to set that up and sell tea off it ~perpetual style probably

epic!

i doubt if they would make the connection between the brewer and a microscope

they have a little section w/ some tea-specific buy-ables all bagged up and closed up {in little pouches} ~seems to be 'nutrient tea' is the focus

~whatever

lolz